Hangover (312)

[suse]

I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

When did Helen kill Adam?

[Skydiver]

she's shot him several times...almost as many as druitt, but he was alive the last time she saw him...druitt actually was the last person to see him

[Cekay]

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???

+1 for that statement.
I didn't like what Helen tried to pull, she should have known that it wouldn't work. To me that seemed way below her...

Another thing that seemed OOC was Will attacking Henry when they were back to normal, like he assumed Henry was trying to hurt him of it own free will like they hadn't been friends for like 3 years. Will is smart he should have realised Henry wasn't in control of himself.

Apart from those scenes I loved the episode, it was funny and I loved Henry's reaction when he realised he shot Will.

[JanSam]

I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

There were some problems though.
1-I figured it all out at the beginning. It was only where the others are that was not known.
2-I only got interested again when I knew that the UN hottie was already in the Sanctuary.
3-Is it just me or have u noticed that the Big guy's face looks funny this episode????

1. I don't think it was their intention to make the main focus to be us figuring it all out; but to amuse us as the Sanctuary team figured it out.
2. How is this a problem...I'm missing what you are saying, I think.

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

I can't say I approved of it (if only that part was her original plan) but I do think we are giving some insight of why she would:
Transcript from Edward..
HELEN
Will, I wasn't entirely comfortable with you making it sound as if The Sanctuary were an arm of law enforcement.

WILL
Well, I had to push her to get at what she was hiding.

HELEN
The unravelling of who killed this man and why may well yield a treasure trove of information about this abnormality. But make no mistake, I will not help compound an injustice.

WILL
So, what are you saying? That we withhold evidence from the authorities?

HELEN
If it's in service of preserving an extraordinary life like Edward's or the mother who tried to protect those sons? You'd better know that I would.


So yes, I think she would lie if she felt the Sanctuary's mission was threatened and the lie would not endanger anyone.
Helen basically put Lillian in her position so apparently Lillian must feel the lie or omission of the incident wasn't harmful for anyone. She still had the rest of the "tour" to decide if that was correct.

About the killing Adam....I've seen several including Helen say this so help me understand. Granted she shot him but the wound did not seem life threatening and she told him not to move; she didn't seem eager to shoot again. Even Will made a comment in For King and Country about Adam's death...
Will: No, no, come on, suicide? You've already played that card.
Adam: True, true. A good magician never performs the same trick twice--

(thanks Sky for doing the FKAC transcripts )

Adam is the one who stepped off the cliff; so how did "Helen" kill him? Did I miss something?

[Feast of the Muse]

I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

There were some problems though.
1-I figured it all out at the beginning. It was only where the others are that was not known.
2-I only got interested again when I knew that the UN hottie was already in the Sanctuary.
3-Is it just me or have u noticed that the Big guy's face looks funny this episode????

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

Yes, I think they must have used something different with the prosthetics on Biggie. It was more than just a clean-up, it moved differently. Anyway.

As for the blackout story, I think they would have gotten away with it (until she got home anyway) if the characters weren't such horrible actors! Helen poured it on a little thick, followed by the others suddenly showing up all at once with everything she would have asked for. I think Helen was giving her the choice, really, to accept the blackout thing or not. She really really wanted her to accept the blackout thing, though.

As for the blackmailing, no. I didn't read that as blackmail as much as "look, we all fell victim to it, even you." Point made and well. Dr. Hottie didn't take it that way either. She ceded the point and offered her first name and her hand. I'd say that whole exchange turned out much better than it started.

[RealmOfX]

I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.

As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.

[majorsal]

fun ep!

LOTS of good moments and lines!

for some reason, i just loved seeing/hearing helen's moan of doom, when she realized the UN woman was coming at 11am, which was hours ago. AND, then she says to everyone to not panic, and will calmly states all the reasons why it IS a good time to panic.

i'll echo what others have said about liking the UN woman figuring it out (really, as soon as she saw the others *who prob blew it with their over attentiveness and bad acting* ). it makes the position of the UN seem more realistic, when you know they're not such push-overs and actually smart.

just so many cute moments between everyone.

i didn't find will whiney baby, b/c his friends kept trying to kill him!

i think, when everyone woke up, they were 'still' suffering from something. okay, a hangover! , which explains will's super anger of wanting to beat the crappo out of henry.

it was nice to be back at the sanctuary.


~on an aside: has anymore made some smiley faces for the sanct team? i've got two helen smileys, but the others would be nice~

[Feast of the Muse]

I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.

As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.

Exactly. Helen has tons of integrity, and plenty of reason to test others on theirs. If you can immediately jump over and believe she's lied like a 6 year old, you're missing something huge about her. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just pointing that out - it's rather important to understanding the whole show. You can't enjoy the complexity and subtlety if you're just judging by some surface actions.

[EH-T]

Really enjoyed this episode. Lots of fun, some great lines from the big guy and Henry, a bit of a mystery to solve.

Was it just me or did Helen seem a little more jokey than usual?

I also liked the fact the the UN rep did not fall for the story she was told. Wouldn't mind seeing this character again.

Loved Bigfoot hanging upside down in the elevator and how he kept pressing the button even after they found him.

[EvenstarSRV]

Speaking of the devil, what happened to our favorite ex-vamp with the Alucard smile?

Yeah, there really should have had some line in the beginning explaining where Tesla went.

Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

Heh, I didn't make that connection but I wouldn't be surprised. I think Thorpe likes those allusions, since he also had Kate call Biggie 'wookie' in Haunted.

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

Well, I think it's worth keeping in mind that Helen has been shown to willingly lie to authorities or coerce people before. Edward was one example, and also in King and Country she lied to the King's rep and then agreed with James and the others in telling the King to 'go to hell'. She also lied to the rest of the Sanctuary network regarding Big Bertha.

And although she didn't kill Worth, I'd wager that over the past century Helen has killed number of enemies, especially during world wars, not to mention killing various dangerous abnormals. While she's far from a cold-blooded killer, I think she's also quite capable of taking someone's life if justified.

[kes]

Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

1st thing that came to mind.

[Kilgharrah]

Yes, I think they must have used something different with the prosthetics on Biggie. It was more than just a clean-up, it moved differently. Anyway.

lol. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

As for the blackmailing, no. I didn't read that as blackmail as much as "look, we all fell victim to it, even you." Point made and well. Dr. Hottie didn't take it that way either. She ceded the point and offered her first name and her hand. I'd say that whole exchange turned out much better than it started.

When Dr. Hottie first watched the video, Helen said something like, 'This is you trying to kill my team'. If that doesn't translate into blackmail, then what is it????

...I think she's also quite capable of taking someone's life if justified...

Justify a death??? What could ever justify a death except for protecting my home or my people?? I never heard that protecting my work justifies it.

[Chelle DB]

I seriously couldn't figure why all of them except for Biggie were disgusted by it. The creature wasn't that ugly to me, just looked like a whitish slug or something like that.

Yeah, I wasn't repelled by it..or the Mollux (sp?) either...I thought both little abby's were kind cute...in their own kinda cute way. I'd love to have a pet like Skippy...but I think I would name him Max...he reminded me of one of the creatures from "Where the Wild Things Are".

i like a term a friend of mine coined.....when biggie did the sleepy gas, bigguyver

Oh that's good...very good...I like that one.

Apart from those scenes I loved the episode, it was funny and I loved Henry's reaction when he realised he shot Will.

I loved Henry's reaction too...I think I even loved Will's reactions...and Kate's....and Biggies...but I loved Helen's most

Adam is the one who stepped off the cliff; so how did "Helen" kill him? Did I miss something?

I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that Helen herself thought she had killed Adam when he "fell" off the cliff after she shot him...after all she was very shocked to see him alive in FK&C.

I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.
As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.

Will asked or stated that she had done this before and Helen said once or twice so I suspect she was gonna try one way then if that failed go the other...I didn't see it as being deceptive so much as protecting the Sanctuary. No complaints from little old me. I loved how it all played out and how Lillian put put her hand and said "Please, call me Lillian"...it all just felt so right.

Was it just me or did Helen seem a little more jokey than usual?
Loved Bigfoot hanging upside down in the elevator and how he kept pressing the button even after they found him.

I reckon Helen seems a lot more relaxed and lighter this season...lighter as in happier, funnier. And yes, seeing Biggie hanging upside down in the net and swinging and pushing the bell was quite funny.

[Kilgharrah]

...I think I even loved Will's reactions...

Sorry, but I had to say this.
Will's reactionS?????
Please!!!! He only has one and he can't make any other.

[EvenstarSRV]

Justify a death??? What could ever justify a death except for protecting my home or my people?? I never heard that protecting my work justifies it.

Of course in Helen's case protecting her home, as well as her people, does include protecting her work. In End of Nights she killed those superabnormals who were intent on killing her and the others as well as destroying the Sanctuary network. And although she didn't do it directly, she seemed to have little issue with Druitt and Tesla rampaging and taking out members of the Cabal. Or Kate killing that Constantine guy in Hero. Plus she did track down and had the intent to kill Adam not just because he was a threat to others, but also to preserve her work with Watson at the Sanctuary.

So, IMHO, I think it's quite in character for Helen to potentially use deadly force as a last resort to protect the abnormals under her care. I also think blackmail or coercion are also tactics that she'd use to protect them, though again most likely as a last resort. She's done it before in the past, so I don't see why she wouldn't in the present.