Season 4 Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Altariel]

I rememberd this dialog Amanda gave us:

KATE
Okay, so... Crazy? Brave? Both?

MAGNUS
I can't tell. He certainly believes this is his time and his place.

KATE
To do what? Become a martyr?

BIGFOOT
If he has to.

[They both turn and look at him.]

BIGFOOT (CONT'D)
For him, better to die with honnor, than live as a coward.

KATE
That is such a load of macho crap. (Oh, I love Kate! Hehe!)

BIGFOOT
Difference of opinion.

MAGNUS
I think he's lying.

[Now Biggie and Kate turn to look at Magnus.]

MAGNUS (CONT'D)
If his concern really is for the safety of all the people here, he'd have taken me up on my offer immediately.
(then)
He may talk about death and honnor, but he's a survivor.

[Bigfoot says nothing.]

MAGNUS (CONT'D)
Whatever he's hiding, find it.

If it isn´t a fake I really wonder who is the mysterious person. I can only think of Will, Druitt, Tesla, Addison or Caleb maybe. Maybe Will repends his actions against Magnus and tries to find a way to undo his mistakes? Dunno

[fems]

reading that made me think... what if chris h saying druitt is dead is right, but the 'other' druit, the one that helen kicked his butt in victorian england is alive and we'll see him???

But PresentJohn would have died (apparently) when he helped PresentHelen to follow PresentAdam into the time rift and go back to the past. Then, PresentHelen killed PresentAdam in the past and had to live out her years until PastAdam would try to go back in time (to prevent Imogene's death by rocks - for which he blamed PastHelen - and her leukemia) and PastJohn would have to do the same thing (as PresentJohn) to help PastHelen follow him into the time rift. At that point PastJohn would suffer the same fate as PresentJohn did and PresentHelen would finally be able to step back into her life and appear in Uprising.

Hm. I like that idea!
I'm wondering anyway how John meeting "old" Helen in Victorian England and her telling him to stay away from her could NOT have had any repercussion...

Remember the scene with PastJohn and PastHelen in her study (or whatever) while PresentHelen was listening in? In it PastJohn was trying to convince her he hadn't killed those women - in the end we learned it was actually Spring-heeled Jack - but kind of lost it and PastHelen was obviously scared of him and tried to get to her weapons in the drawer behind her... only PresentHelen had gotten there first and had taken said weapons with her, one of which she was readying while eavesdropping on the two. To me the look on PresentHelen's face and PastHelen's reaction (to not finding her weapon) indicated that PresentHelen had once been in the same position but had scared him (then PresentJohn) off with her gun and now she had no idea what PastJohn might do to her past self so she was ready to step in if necessary. Because PastJohn left on his own PresentHelen took the opportunity to give him the same warning she'd given her John all those years ago when she ran into him on the streets and he refused to let her pass. In effect, PresentHelen fixed her mistake (of taking the weapons) and the events should unfold the same as they had in her lifetime.

you know the worst thing about this 'john's dead' thinger (besides him being, you know, dead ) is... there's been no mention of him 'from helen'. you don't have to be a shipper of them to know they loved each other once. helen would grieve, and we'd need to see that.

and i'm not a shipper of them.

I'm not a shipper either, but their past can't be denied and even though Helen no longer seemed to return John's affections, it was clear she still cared about him in some way. Even if she was truly fed up with him in Into the Black I still think there should have been an acknowledgment of his death by her, no matter how small.

Exactly. It feels like... you only know that he's dead because of interviews or tweets or behind the scenes. There is no reaction from the characters at the sanctuary to his death...

The fact there's no reaction at all is what me pisses me off most about John's death. Not to mention we had to learn it from an interview...

Then Maybe he isnt really dead. You know what they say no body no death right? I have at least a shred of hope left John is alive. xD I BELIEVEEEE

They never found Ashley's body, but Helen (and John) still acknowledged her passing in the end.

I don't think she would. They've been estranged for a long time, and only John has been trying to pursue the relationship, not Helen. Perhaps a small bit of regret would be well founded, but I don't think she would actually feel sorrow at this point in her life.

I think she would feel something about it, especially after their last discussion in Into the Black; they didn't exactly part on the best terms. Plus he (apparently) sacrificed his life to help her stop Adam, to right his mistakes. Even if she didn't love him anymore such actions would still affect her.

But whatever the feeling, there would be SOMETHING. He's such a big part of her life. I get that her 113 of reliving history might have helped her move on, but still, if he's dead, then there needs to be some closure, regret, sorrow, or just a mention of it on Helen's part.

Yes, this.

~

I also think that there would have been questions from the others; Will is always sticking his nose where it doesn't belong and is adamant about knowing everything and expects Magnus to tell him every detail about her life and what's happened to her. I would have expected him to demand to know what happened to Druitt or where the guy was now that Magnus returned alone and apparently spent 113 years living in the past.

Or they could have had (virtual) Adam mention it in Chimera, since he seemed to enjoy tormenting her with her memories and Sanctuary reports.

They might even have had Nikola inquire about Druitt; they never seemed to be very close friends and were rivals when it came to Helen's affections, but they'd known each other a long time and had something... I wouldn't call it a banter per se, but maybe an understanding and could work together for the greater good (aka when Helen Magnus needed it). He might have made a snarky comment or mutter something about where Druitt was when you needed him, or something like that and then we could see Helen's reaction (with AT's acting just her face would probably be enough but some words would be nice too).

[fems]

I rememberd this dialog Amanda gave us:

KATE
Okay, so... Crazy? Brave? Both?

MAGNUS
I can't tell. He certainly believes this is his time and his place.

KATE
To do what? Become a martyr?

BIGFOOT
If he has to.

[They both turn and look at him.]

BIGFOOT (CONT'D)
For him, better to die with honnor, than live as a coward.

KATE
That is such a load of macho crap.

BIGFOOT
Difference of opinion.

MAGNUS
I think he's lying.

[Now Biggie and Kate turn to look at Magnus.]

MAGNUS (CONT'D)
If his concern really is for the safety of all the people here, he'd have taken me up on my offer immediately.
(then)
He may talk about death and honnor, but he's a survivor.

[Bigfoot says nothing.]

MAGNUS (CONT'D)
Whatever he's hiding, find it.

If it isn´t a fake I really wonder who is the mysterious person. I can only think of Will, Druitt, Tesla, Addison or Caleb maybe. Maybe Will repends his actions against Magnus and tries to find a way to undo his mistakes? Dunno

Well, I have no doubt Tesla would have absolutely no problem with living like a coward seeing how he'd let Magnus handle his service while he remained underground for ~60 years. Although survivor and lying sound like him, but 'death and honor' coming from Nikola Tesla? I highly doubt it.

From what I've seen I highly doubt Addison has any honor and he seems to have no trouble with standing back and letting the Sanctuary clean up his mess, so I doubt he'd try to be a martyr or brave.

I don't recall anyone named Caleb though...

Druitt seems like the martyr type and trying to be heroic to get in Magnus' good graces, but I just don't get the impression from Magnus' words that it's Druitt they're talking about (she seems to know him very well and what makes him tick, so she'd be able to see right through him).

Will, do something brave and being a martyr? Well, in his mind maybe but lately I have started to doubt his commitment. And I also don't see him as someone Magnus would call a survivor. Despite what Will's done and said lately he truly seems to think he's right so I imagine he'd put aside any issues he might have and take Magnus up on whatever offer she'd made for the safety of all those people.

[xgfan]

Remember the scene with PastJohn and PastHelen in her study (or whatever) while PresentHelen was listening in? In it PastJohn was trying to convince her he hadn't killed those women - in the end we learned it was actually Spring-heeled Jack - but kind of lost it and PastHelen was obviously scared of him and tried to get to her weapons in the drawer behind her... only PresentHelen had gotten there first and had taken said weapons with her, one of which she was readying while eavesdropping on the two. To me the look on PresentHelen's face and PastHelen's reaction (to not finding her weapon) indicated that PresentHelen had once been in the same position but had scared him (then PresentJohn) off with her gun and now she had no idea what PastJohn might do to her past self so she was ready to step in if necessary. Because PastJohn left on his own PresentHelen took the opportunity to give him the same warning she'd given her John all those years ago when she ran into him on the streets and he refused to let her pass. In effect, PresentHelen fixed her mistake (of taking the weapons) and the events should unfold the same as they had in her lifetime.

That makes sense, good explanation

[Mackandal]

[QUOTE=fems;13090174]Well, I have no doubt Tesla would have absolutely no problem with living like a coward seeing how he'd let Magnus handle his service while he remained underground for ~60 years. Although survivor and lying sound like him, but 'death and honor' coming from Nikola Tesla? I highly doubt it.
[QUOTE]
Tesla twice was willing to sacrifice himself without hesitation for Helen, and in Sleepers took responsibility for the mess and devamped them himself while keeping the Sanc team safe. WOuld he do the same for someone other than Magnus? Probably not, unless it was really grave, but it sounds like whoever it is is doing this for the Sanctuary.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

I rememberd this dialog Amanda gave us:

<snip excerpt form Sanctuary for None>

If it isn´t a fake I really wonder who is the mysterious person. I can only think of Will, Druitt, Tesla, Addison or Caleb maybe. Maybe Will repends his actions against Magnus and tries to find a way to undo his mistakes? Dunno

I think they're talking about whoever Helen makes a deal with in that episode.

I also think that there would have been questions from the others; Will is always sticking his nose where it doesn't belong and is adamant about knowing everything and expects Magnus to tell him every detail about her life and what's happened to her. I would have expected him to demand to know what happened to Druitt or where the guy was now that Magnus returned alone and apparently spent 113 years living in the past.

Or they could have had (virtual) Adam mention it in Chimera, since he seemed to enjoy tormenting her with her memories and Sanctuary reports.

They might even have had Nikola inquire about Druitt; they never seemed to be very close friends and were rivals when it came to Helen's affections, but they'd known each other a long time and had something... I wouldn't call it a banter per se, but maybe an understanding and could work together for the greater good (aka when Helen Magnus needed it). He might have made a snarky comment or mutter something about where Druitt was when you needed him, or something like that and then we could see Helen's reaction (with AT's acting just her face would probably be enough but some words would be nice too).

See? Plenty of opportunity to tell us, and they didn't.

Me thinks what Chris said in the interview is only what he believes happened to John. Maybe they just didn't discuss it in the writer's room. Maybe the only think they agreed on was that there would only be one ep (the first) with John to clear up a bit Chris' schedule. We'll never no exactly what they decided, but for me to acknowledge his death, it'll take more than an actor's word.

And even then, I might not. His death was so unclear that any interpretation is still good.

What frustrates me the most about this is not the fact that John could be dead, it's the lack of meaning of his death. Hell, his death in Pavor Nocturnus had more impact, and we learned it from Will. Just saying.

[es!]

I too am irked by the lack of canon informaton on John's death. I can't believe the writers are so blind. I want to hope that John is a part of Helen's secret somehow, and this is why she never talks about him this season.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

I too am irked by the lack of canon informaton on John's death. I can't believe the writers are so blind. I want to hope that John is a part of Helen's secret somehow, and this is why she never talks about him this season.

Somehow, I doubt it.

But I can't blame hope. Hope is good.

[samcartersg1]

Don't know if this was posted yet but here is the description for Sanctuary for None Part II: (I know it is a spoiler thread but just in case I put it in a spoiler tag)

Spoiler:

Henry and Tesla learn that SCIU weaponized Tesla's work to use against abnormals; Bigfoot and Kate investigate Caleb's rise to power while Will and Abby look into Magnus' past in the Season 4 Finale

I guess this means Bigfoot is okay?

[majorsal]

But whatever the feeling, there would be SOMETHING. He's such a big part of her life. I get that her 113 of reliving history might have helped her move on, but still, if he's dead, then there needs to be some closure, regret, sorrow, or just a mention of it on Helen's part.

Personally, I'm not buying it. He can't be dead. That leaves them only one guest star, and, as much as I adore Nikola, there needs to be more variety.

But hey, I'm living in my own canon, so I'm happy with it.

i don't think he's dead. OR, the john we know is dead, and a new and different john (without the energy creature) is alive.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

Don't know if this was posted yet but here is the description for Sanctuary for None Part II: (I know it is a spoiler thread but just in case I put it in a spoiler tag)

Spoiler:

Henry and Tesla learn that SCIU weaponized Tesla's work to use against abnormals; Bigfoot and Kate investigate Caleb's rise to power while Will and Abby look into Magnus' past in the Season 4 Finale

I guess this means Bigfoot is okay?

The bit in bold = LOVE.

[Altariel]

Henry and Tesla learn that SCIU weaponized Tesla's work to use against abnormals

Maybe Teslas work is the wireless energy construction of "Resistance" and they somehow managed to usse that against abnormals and therefore he feels guilty and that would explain the dialoge between Helen, Kate and Biggie. Somehow I´m scared for him.

[NumberSix]

This part:

BIGFOOT (CONT'D)
For him, better to die with honnor, than live as a coward.

makes me think they're not referring to Tesla. I just don't see Biggie as talking about Tesla this way.

LadyGalaxyJ: Me thinks what Chris said in the interview is only what he believes happened to John. Maybe they just didn't discuss it in the writer's room. Maybe the only think they agreed on was that there would only be one ep (the first) with John to clear up a bit Chris' schedule. We'll never no exactly what they decided, but for me to acknowledge his death, it'll take more than an actor's word.

And even then, I might not. His death was so unclear that any interpretation is still good.

Me thinks there may be some truth in that. Maybe they left it open on purpose, not knowing what Chris's schedule would be when they were ready to film S4 eps or maybe even not sure whether they'd have him die or survive. That could also explain them not showing Helen dealing with it, because it still wasn't decided whether he'd be back or not.

And while Helen's feelings for him have changed, I still say there needed to be some acknowledgement, if not grief then at the very least a mention of the fact that he sacrificed himself so she could go back in time after Adam and make things right.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

Me thinks there may be some truth in that. Maybe they left it open on purpose, not knowing what Chris's schedule would be when they were ready to film S4 eps or maybe even not sure whether they'd have him die or survive. That could also explain them not showing Helen dealing with it, because it still wasn't decided whether he'd be back or not.

And while Helen's feelings for him have changed, I still say there needed to be some acknowledgement, if not grief then at the very least a mention of the fact that he sacrificed himself so she could go back in time after Adam and make things right.

Yep. That's how I chose to see it anyway. And I'm happy with that choice.

[majorsal]

http://blastr.com/2011/12/terra-nova-drops-person-o.php

^ on this page (about half way down), it talks about sanct's last ratings (for 'the depths), and shows a pic of someone that i assume is in pt one of the two part season finale. now, to me, this looks like the long time actor 'bruce davidson', but if anyone knows who is it, please tell.

bruce - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001117/

bruce's imdb page doesn't list him being in the ep, but that might not mean anything.

so, let's say he's in it... he's a really good actor, so wow! but if he's not, then who is this guy?

this is an odd-ish pic to use to highlight the ep. at least it is to me.