The Fifth Stage (412)

[EvilSpaceAlien]

No, I got that

I was just saying that I thought Heroes was going to stay at 9/8c for the rest of the season

But it will.
Maybe I wasn't clear.
Chucks two hour season premiere is on Sunday, January 10. Then Chuck moves to it's regular time slot 8/7c on Monday, January 11. Chuck then continues to air at 8/7c central for the rest of it's season while Heroes will air at 9/8c.

[Joachim]

...Which is how it used to be. I see no problem with that change.

[gkyun]

On another note, Claire is such an idiot. She is so buying what Samuel is selling. So gullible!

I have my doubt whether Claire really believes Samuel. I think she's actually spying on him to try and find out what his real agenda is.

IMO it's so out of character for Claire to be so gullible, as you said. Hell a couple of eps back she tells Samuel: "you think I would trust you over my dad?" So I don't think her joining Samuel is genuine. Wait until she finds out what Samuel's real motive is and she'll call dad to bring in the cavalry!

[yessika]

But it will.
Maybe I wasn't clear.
Chucks two hour season premiere is on Sunday, January 10. Then Chuck moves to it's regular time slot 8/7c on Monday, January 11. Chuck then continues to air at 8/7c central for the rest of it's season while Heroes will air at 9/8c.

K, I was soo confused. Yay! *does happy dance*

[Aerilon]

No, Peter's ability took away all the excitement in the show. For a proper showdown between Peter and anyone, Peter had to be dumbed down otherwise he'd easily own anyone. Which was getting REALLY frustrating eventually.

The same could be said for Sylar, in that he is too powerful, and can pretty much 'own' anyone. Sylar even has Matt's power now, does he not?

What they need to do with Peter, is give him a new power, which is between his original, and his post-formula one. Obviously a true empath power wouldn't work, but maybe a different version of what Sylar has, that being, Peter would be able to acquire new powers, but at the pain and discomfort of others, therefore, he would only take them if he really needed too. Unlike Sylar's power, Peter wouldn't need to kill people, only cause them pain.

I have my doubt whether Claire really believes Samuel. I think she's actually spying on him to try and find out what his real agenda is.

IMO it's so out of character for Claire to be so gullible, as you said. Hell a couple of eps back she tells Samuel: "you think I would trust you over my dad?" So I don't think her joining Samuel is genuine. Wait until she finds out what Samuel's real motive is and she'll call dad to bring in the cavalry!

I dissagree. I think Claire is falling for everything. She stole that compass for starters, if it was a big plan between her and Noah, surely he'd have given her that compass, and not been so worried when he realised it gone? Also, there were times at which Claire didn't seem too sure on whether she wanted to stay or not. I think she's walking right into it. Sure she'll find out the truth, but not before something big / bad happens. Get the feeling Samuel is after Noah, for something a lot bigger than we're aware of.

[AVFan]

But it will.
Maybe I wasn't clear.
Chucks two hour season premiere is on Sunday, January 10. Then Chuck moves to it's regular time slot 8/7c on Monday, January 11. Chuck then continues to air at 8/7c central for the rest of it's season while Heroes will air at 9/8c.

Wait. So we're having 3 hours of Chuck within 2 days? YAY!

[marty2006]

No, Peter's ability took away all the excitement in the show. For a proper showdown between Peter and anyone, Peter had to be dumbed down otherwise he'd easily own anyone. Which was getting REALLY frustrating eventually.



Ehm, it IS solved now.

How many times have we thought it solved and Sylar pops back out or vice versa. Peters current ability is piss.

Oh and dont be SO condescending.

[gkyun]

I dissagree. I think Claire is falling for everything. She stole that compass for starters, if it was a big plan between her and Noah, surely he'd have given her that compass, and not been so worried when he realised it gone? Also, there were times at which Claire didn't seem too sure on whether she wanted to stay or not. I think she's walking right into it. Sure she'll find out the truth, but not before something big / bad happens. Get the feeling Samuel is after Noah, for something a lot bigger than we're aware of.

Well I think Claire could just be doing it on her own and not telling her father because Noah would surely have stopped her from putting herself in danger with Samuel, that's why she stole the compass.

It's entirely possible that Claire is falling for what Samuel is preaching, but it doesn't seem likely IMO because if she is, then the same can be said for their encounter at Claire's dorm. She seems quite interested in what Samuel is saying, only revealed to be a ploy to keep him there until Noah arrives.

I agree that Claire is probably just unsure about the true nature of things in the carnival. Samuel may be telling the truth, maybe he isn't. She's not sure. Bare in mind he even has his "family" fooled (except tatoo girl and that guy with the blades, and he ran away), they believe he's exactly the person he wanted Claire to believe. So she is not seeing the full picture, not by a long shot. I think she's waiting for a chance to catch Samuel in the act so she can find out for herself what he's really up to.

[Madwelshboy]

How many times have we thought it solved and Sylar pops back out or vice versa.

This was the end of the storyline. Its been known for a few weeks now that this was Adrian Pasdar last episode.

[boyd22]

The same could be said for Sylar, in that he is too powerful, and can pretty much 'own' anyone. Sylar even has Matt's power now, does he not?

exactly, Sylar has gone unchallenged in terms of power almost a whole season now with know one even coming close to him...giving him Empathic mimicry only makes it that much worse, because he doesn't have to rip peoples heads open anymore...it will be much worse if they decide to give him Samuel's ability using Empathic mimicry...

What they need to do with Peter, is give him a new power, which is between his original, and his post-formula one. Obviously a true empath power wouldn't work, but maybe a different version of what Sylar has, that being, Peter would be able to acquire new powers, but at the pain and discomfort of others, therefore, he would only take them if he really needed too. Unlike Sylar's power, Peter wouldn't need to kill people, only cause them pain.

i'm still thinking Peter's current ability is just an early version of his original and will eventually evolve...a few character's on the show who's abilities have evolved, Matt for example...he was originally only able to read minds, he was then able to project images into other peoples minds, it evolved further when he was able to command others to do what he wanted and manipulate memories to either erase or implant someones entire memories into someone else...Tracy is also another example...

actually, Peter's current ability more closely resembles his father's, so its possible it could evolve into that...

[entil2001]

This episode was a long time coming, especially given that the producers sent out a press release, detailing the final demise of one of the original characters. That the character in question was already technically dead was a bit of a cheat, and I’m still wondering why the producers would think that this episode should be framed as something extraordinary.

That’s not to say that the episode was bad. In many respects, it was a solid entry for the fourth season, continuing the slow and steady pace of the story. While a lot of people saw nothing worth following in the season premiere, I still think this season has been better than anyone could have expected. It’s not incredible, but I am enjoying many of the new elements and the format that has emerged.

After a couple of episodes that seemed to take Samuel in the wrong direction, the writers brought him back on track. I think it’s entirely possible to cast Samuel as something of a Magneto analogue, especially given his ability, while still giving him a self-interested basis for his actions. Whether or not he’s invoking sincerity about leading his fellow metahumans to some sort of “promised land” for personal gain can be irrelevant, if the writers approach it correctly.

I keep thinking back to how Samuel was portrayed in the earlier episodes of the season: dedicated to his family, but willing to step over the moral line to achieve his goals. It’s possible for Samuel to demonstrate a balance, and it all has to do with his endgame. If he is willing to do all of this to gain enormous power, what comes next?

If it’s just a matter of gaining the power to have the power, then building a sense of community and family as a safe haven for metahumans is a reasonable means to an end. He could look at his current actions as the cost for everyone to get what they really want and need. As much as it seems like he’s borrowing from his brother’s playbook when it comes to using the carnival as a sanctuary for their own kind, Samuel could believe it what he’s doing.

At the same time, he could have much darker intentions. If he wants to create a place where metahumans can be themselves without a need to condescend to mundane human demands, that could be a prelude to forcing a state of independence. Samuel's own words suggest that he might use his enhanced ability to make demands. That could be his endgame, and having soldiers like Eli and Claire would only help his cause. In that light, creating a “family” develops loyalty.

I still think that Sylar is likely to derail Samuel's plans, especially now that Nathan is no longer a factor. It's just a matter of how quickly Sylar can arrive at the carnival. Peter's decision to let Nathan go may have made a certain amount of emotional sense, but Peter had to be aware that he was essentially letting Sylar run free. While I have some hope that a likely conclusion to the series at the end of the season will push the writers to deliver a solid battle between Sylar and the “heroes”, I'm not sure why Peter wouldn't have used Nathan's last few moments to absorb Nathan's flying ability, carry Nathan/Sylar as far over the ocean as possible, and then let him drop.

That wasn't the only illogical moment in the episode. Noah's character arc this season has been less than interesting, even taking into account his potential relationship with Lauren, and this hasn't changed. But why would Noah and Lauren be shocked when Eli just leaves with the files and doesn't stick around to kill them? Eli plainly states that he is there for something and would prefer to take it without resistance. Maybe Noah and Lauren were still too distracted by their personal drama!

This is the last appearance in the series by Adrian Pasdar, which is probably a bit overdue. That took a little bit away from the overall impact of the final moments between Peter and Nathan, along with a surprisingly subdued approach to the scene. I must, however, give Pasdar credit for his final performance. His ability to switch between Nathan's weariness and Sylar's menace was a highlight of the episode, especially in counterpoint to Samuel's careful manipulations.

[ZeroPoint]

Why didn't Sylar land, and telekenise (sp?) Peter off the roof to let him fall? Beat me up, remove my powers, staple me to the floor, start ripping out memories, and drop me off a building. I'll get up, wave and walk away happy. That was NOT in Sylar's personality.

I'd like some consistency out of Samuel/Carnival. Good or evil or just misguided? Include Gabriel for no purpose, then include Hiro by force and have that go like dust in the wind when it finally gets interesting. Collect power, save the brother, save the old guy, protect the family? Which one?

Done ranting...

It seemed to me that Sylar recovered faster than he should have from the roof dive. Clair would've taken a good 5-10 seconds to recover from that but it took Sylar about 2 seconds.

I wonder if Peter's mind wipe removed some of Sylar's collected abilities along the way, or tweaked Sylars original ability somehow.

[boyd22]

although Nathan's gone, i'm hoping having Nathan in his head will bring some kinda change to Sylar...IDK about everyone else, but i'm tired of the kill, kill, kill just because i can Sylar...they've been playing the same card for 3 1/2 seasons now...

something that hasn't been mention, Samuel implies that Claire isn't the one he wants but rather shes the key to bringing the person he really seeks to him..i wonder who it is he actually seeks...i guess it could be HRG but its also possible it could be Peter...Samuel did visit Peter for what seems like no reason so far...

[the fifth man]

although Nathan's gone, i'm hoping having Nathan in his head will bring some kinda change to Sylar...IDK about everyone else, but i'm tired of the kill, kill, kill just because i can Sylar...they've been playing the same card for 3 1/2 seasons now...

something that hasn't been mention, Samuel implies that Claire isn't the one he wants but rather shes the key to bringing the person he really seeks to him..i wonder who it is he actually seeks...i guess it could be HRG but its also possible it could be Peter...Samuel did visit Peter for what seems like no reason so far...

Yeah, it could very well be Peter. I suppose time will tell.

[Aerilon]

Well I think Claire could just be doing it on her own and not telling her father because Noah would surely have stopped her from putting herself in danger with Samuel, that's why she stole the compass.

It's entirely possible that Claire is falling for what Samuel is preaching, but it doesn't seem likely IMO because if she is, then the same can be said for their encounter at Claire's dorm. She seems quite interested in what Samuel is saying, only revealed to be a ploy to keep him there until Noah arrives.

You make a valid argument, but I think Claire actually took in what Samuel was saying at her apartment. Granted she got rid of him when Noah turned up, but that doesn't mean to say she didn't plan to find him again later, when Noah had gone. Suffice to say, we'll find out next year, oh the wait.

i'm still thinking Peter's current ability is just an early version of his original and will eventually evolve...a few character's on the show who's abilities have evolved, Matt for example...he was originally only able to read minds, he was then able to project images into other peoples minds, it evolved further when he was able to command others to do what he wanted and manipulate memories to either erase or implant someones entire memories into someone else...Tracy is also another example...

Here's hoping, although, when he first found his power, he had all of it straight away, first with the ability to fly (from Nathan). It didn't 'evolve' then, he just had it from day one.

something that hasn't been mention, Samuel implies that Claire isn't the one he wants but rather shes the key to bringing the person he really seeks to him..i wonder who it is he actually seeks...i guess it could be HRG but its also possible it could be Peter...Samuel did visit Peter for what seems like no reason so far...

That ain't a bad thought come to think of it. At the moment, everyone is focused on Noah and Samuel, nobody has given a thought to Peter and Samuel, although didn't Peter have a compass imbedded into his arm? He'll find the carnival eventually though, you can be sure of that. Just whether Samuel was on about him, Noah, or someone else. Maybe Samuel actually has Claire there, so he can get Sylar back?

If Samuel knows what Noah / Angela and Matt did to Sylar, he'll know that Sylar is out for blood (Noah's included). If Sylar is out for Noah, and Noah is out for Samuel, Noah finding Samuel could be Samuel's chance of getting Sylar again. At the end of the day, Peter and Sylar are very much alike, in the sense they've both got the Empath ability.