Game of Thrones Books (Spoilers for everything)

[MattSilver 3k]

When would Robb have met his wife(ACOK or ASOS)? I think(but don't really remember) that Catelyn finds out from Robb when he gets back(in ASOS?)since he doesn't have POV chapters we don't see their meeting(Robb and his wife's), but would it have happened during ACOK? I'm confused lol. I know he met her while he was off fighting; he defeated her father in battle, she treated his wounds(and possibly drugged him with some kind of love potion), he took her virginity, and so felt the need to marry her, despite being in contract to marry someone else; giving Frey the final excuse he needed for the red wedding.

He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

[VampyreWraith]

He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

Thanks for saving me with your book knowledge! (I'd completely forgotten the girl's name, so thanks for reminding me of that too lol.) I was asking about it, because I was wondering if it might be part of Robb's arc next season. I think getting to see things(not just the Robb/Jeyne thing) from Robb's pov on the tv series will be interesting.

[MattSilver 3k]

It'll certainly make things more brutal come Red Wedding when we know the guy all the more.

Also, Littlefinger, you magnificent bastard. Never put much stock in you, especially after betraying Ned, but teaming with the Tyrells and manipulating Lysa like that was deftly done. Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

[gotthammer]

Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

Hehehe, I doubt that will ever change. I mean, he's probably thinking: "Hmm...since I can't have her mommy, and Sansa is probably going to be prettier, anyway (right?)...."

[MattSilver 3k]

Just finished Feast For Crows. Took me a week to down all four, but a very well-spent week. More thoughts to follow after I get some sleep, including a tour of what I thought would happen after seeing spoilers here and there, and how I got proven wrong time and time again.

[magictrick]

Hehehe, I doubt that will ever change. I mean, he's probably thinking: "Hmm...since I can't have her mommy, and Sansa is probably going to be prettier, anyway (right?)...."

The guy made his living off running pleasure houses, what else would you expect from him

[MattSilver 3k]

Ooookaaaaaay, who wants to read something long-winded? I'll spoiler tag it because of that. Basically, the following is my thoughts on the books, on how I thought things would turn out because of spoilers I'd read, how things might be translated from book to show, and what I think's coming up next. It'll be a fun read, I'm sure.

Spoiler:

First off, I don't really think the series is as "Kill 'Em All" as described. Seriously, my thoughts as I go will show y'all how many characters I expected to die because of being constantly told that Martin's not afraid to kill people off. I'm not saying he's not afraid - Ned and Robb speak to that - but it's not as bad as I expected, and that's not a disappointment; That so many rich characters are still alive is a great thing to me. It's a harsh world, but not as harsh as I was expecting. Still rockin', though.

Now, I started the show first, and discussion threads on various forums managed to drop several spoilers as they went, those prats. I knew Ned would die going into it because of a YouTube comment, for example. I knew there was something big in Book Three called the "Red Wedding". I knew that Robb and Cat would be killed - I originally thought they were to be killed in book two (Where people had said Theon betrayed them), but yeah. I also knew that the Freys were considered evil murdering bastards... Stuff like that. Not everything, as we find out...

Okay, my original envisioning for Book Two was the War of Five Kings (Again, spoiled). At first I didn't know who the kings were, but I guessed from a casting call for Mellisandre in season two of the show that one was Stannis Baratheon. The others? I figured Robert as one (But then he died, so Joffrey), Renly as another, Robb as a fourth... and oddly, I thought it was either Dany or Cat that would be the fifth. But, you know, having it be Balon kinda clicked that Theon would betray the gang because of his father (Of course, in the actual book, he mostly did it out of glory for himself, by the looks of things. It read as unclear). Anyways, I also first learnt about Brienne from the casting call for season two, and had her painted as a retainer of Renly's from a gladiator place or something, and not as the noble and naive, yet awesome, maiden that would come into Cat's employ.

Now, the Red Wedding... I never connected it between the Freys and Robb and Cat's death, despite the fact there was to be a marriage between one of the Freys and Robb... My mental image of the Red Wedding had a lot to do with the name - Red as in Red Keep, in King's Landing, or red as in Lannister Red. The Red Wedding in my head? Sansa and Joffrey's wedding, where Robb (And maybe Cat) would be brought forward and beheaded as part of the ceremony, just to **** with Sansa. That would've been brutal, but the Freys betrayal with Bolton and Tywin helping is just as, and the whole Jeyne Westerling angle was something that shocked me, though I liked it (Mostly because it gives Robb the same flaw Ned did - honour - and it gets him killed).

I think characters arcs are the parts where I got the most wrong from my speculation. Lots of characters, lots of things to ponder, but I knew that at least Cersei, Tyrion Jon, Dany and Arya would be alive by the end of book four. And funnily enough, given the fact I was led to believe in a massive kill count, they were all I thought would be alive at the end of that book out of the POV characters. Yep. I was a bit iffy on Bran and Sansa, but I thought Jaime had died, Theon had died, Brienne and Davos had died... Well, I might not be wrong on the latter two, but we'll get to that.

So yeah. I knew Joffrey would die, but not how he did. I read that he had to be put down by Littlefinger and the Tyrells, and while that did happen, I kinda imagined it differently. Bare with me, so...

I thought Book Three, introducing Jaime's POV, would be a redemption for Jaime's character. While it was, I figured it would end with him dead because of something Cersei did, that would also end with Tyrion on the run (Read that somewhere). I knew book four had Cersei's POV, and I thought she too would be running in that book, or something. I dunno - it actually comes back to Sansa. So yeah, I didn't see her marrying Tyrion at all - well, not til I was spoilered - so I figured she'd be raped by Joffrey () on their wedding night after he killed her brother in front of her, and she would be accosted by Littlefinger into helping kill Joffrey in book four. That Sansa left King's Landing was a surprise, though I knew she would be with Littlefinger... Who I thought would be killed at the end of book four, by the Hound. With a sword through the throat.

This is a strange kinda link. I realised that one of the threads I frequent has book readers who are completely forgetful about things. They would honestly sit there and ask each other if Mormont Sr was killed in the second book or the third, or wonder if Littlefinger got stabbed in the throat ("Hey, but wasn't the Hound dead at that point?"). It was a lot like that. Because of that false spoiler/some idiot, I thought that the final death of Joffrey would play out with him in the throne room, his Kingsguard and the Hound... Versus Brienne and Loras Tyrell, and somebody else. Littlefinger would be present (Council business?), he'd get killed right off for his betrayal, and Loras and Brienne would take down Joffrey, run Cersei out of the city, and hold the Iron Throne down for Dany to come claim it. The events of this would be from Sansa's POV or something. I dunno.

Obviously didn't work out like that, huh?

Some more thoughts: Wolf dreams were something I didn't see coming, but it was good that Bran got something to do with that - I always figured there was a bit of prophet in him, so yeah. Going out past the Wall? Probably not the best idea. Figured Arya would be heading for Braavos, but I thought it was going to be a legacy of Syrio's, not after apprenticing under the Hound and becoming completely insane, not to mention all that Faceless Man mumbo jumbo I don't quite understand but still like...

Tyrion's arc was my greatest surprise, and it was most awesome because of it. He went to some damn dark places in the second and third books, and I loved it. Making him the Hand for Book Two was something I never considered - I thought he'd just chill for a bit or something. Davos was another surprise, as was Stannis. I love Davos, following in Ned's footsteps and all, but I thought his arc would be more about... Actually, what it is now: freeing Stannis from Mellisandre, kinda. That Stannis would go to the Wall, or that he wasn't sleeping with Mellisandre (In my defence, he's a Baratheon) were the shocks. Either way, love Davos, and Brienne too - she was a lot more naive than I pictured, but still awesome, and I hope like hell she survives being hanged. If not...

Jon and Dany I knew were going to stick around, and they are. I think they're heading for something together - yeah, I'm going with the "L + R = J" theory. I also think that Arya will kill one of Dany's dragons, and Jon and Dany's fallout from that will be a big event in the endgame - if Dany will kill Arya for it, what Jon would sacrifice for that... I think, anyway. I can't really predict - we have three books to go and quite a bit to tie up together... If this is just a prequel series, I'll rage.

So yeah. There you all have it. That right there is what happens when a TV show goer reads some spoilers, dreams up scenarios and then goes to read the books. So much fun to be had, so many theories and imagined scenarios shattered and replaced with awesome-r ones... I don't think I'll ever hate anything the TV show does compared to the book. They're different animals, and while the TV show might distill some things (Which is great) but doesn't go into inner thoughts that much (Which is expected of the medium), something that doesn't happen in the show doesn't mean it didn't happen in the books. It's not like deciding to cut a character or skip a battle will be the worst thing in the world. I'll be forgiving of it, personally, because we should be so lucky to even get an adaptation as awesome as this one.

I'm glad the TV show was what I went with first. The visual medium helps so much, and reading the books in character voices from the show makes it better - like Jorah. Iain Glen's Jorah voice is always with me when I read his stuff in the book.

So yeah. Can't wait for ADWD. Should be rockin' - I heard that it'll be as long as ASOS, which I don't mind in the slightest! Bring it on.

[magictrick]

Your idea for Joffrey's death would have been epic. I think GRRM avoids the "showdown" scenario though.

With regards to killing off characters, he's got to let some live for the story to continue. The pattern seems to be that a few bite the dust in each book, so I guess we should expect the numbers to dwindle in ADWD.

I'm probably one of those people that doesn't remember which book certain events happened in. But its because I haven't read them in so long, and I also try not to post my comments on events that I don't remember. For the exact reason you mentioned which is not to confuse other people

[MattSilver 3k]

Yeah, if there's anything this fandom's taught me... It's that they don't actually remember much. Now I'm here, and I know I won't forget.

[Cold Fuzz]

He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

By the middle of book 2, I actually started to expect Tyrion to eventually somehow break away from his family. I think there was always that amount of tension between him and everybody else. I could feel it coming with how he was able to outwit Cersei at her own game for much of book 2. But the way his fortunes changed in book 3 made me wonder if he'd "switch sides" as it were and start working for the Lannisters' enemies.

But the way he did broke away from the rest of the Lannister clan was definitely something I didn't expect. Shooting Tywin with a crossbow in his groin (well not quite down there but pretty close) was some poetic justice.

It'll certainly make things more brutal come Red Wedding when we know the guy all the more.

Also, Littlefinger, you magnificent bastard. Never put much stock in you, especially after betraying Ned, but teaming with the Tyrells and manipulating Lysa like that was deftly done. Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

I think that Littlefinger's mentally superimposing Cat's face every time he spends time with her. That kind of mental porn is very Littlefinger-ish I think.

As for LF's claims that Sansa is somehow going to win back Winterfell, I'll believe that when one of Dany's dragons starts spitting out ice instead of fire.

[Cold Fuzz]

R'Hollaorantgmakfm is the Ori. Hallowed are the Ori.

But hey, if his preistesses are as hot as my mental image of Mellisandre is, I'll sign up.

I'm sure there'll be opportunities to sign up in the next R'hllorapalooza tour of Westeros.

Absolutely - there has been something that has felt... off about the whole thing since the beginning. That may just be my natural suspicion of anyone claiming to be a saviour, but I suspect there are some nasty magical intent-on-world-domination machinations going on. But I don't think Mellisandre is evil, I think she honestly believes in her god.

Mind you, the more I try to speculate or hypothesize, the more I doubt that I'm anywhere close to what GRRM is going to do!

Now that I'm nearing the end of book 4, my opinion of the whole R'hllor situation is that there's a good deal of truth in its faith, especially with Dany more and more fitting the Azor Ahai prophecy and her being a benevolent force in Essos. However, I think that Mellisandre is gravely misguided or flat-out evil. Propping up Stannis and the fratricide with Renly, not to mention "birthing" a shadow... ugh. I think that Thoros is more in-line with what the R'hllor faith had in mind for their clerics.


On a random note: Like Matt, I end up thinking of Iain Glen whenever Jorah's parts in the books come up. He does have a distinctive voice that's very hard to forget.

[MattSilver 3k]

I also can't help but think about the Emmys Peter Dinklage will get shunned for as events go on. I mean, gawd, you just know he's going to rock it and probably still get shunned.

[Cold Fuzz]

I also can't help but think about the Emmys Peter Dinklage will get shunned for as events go on. I mean, gawd, you just know he's going to rock it and probably still get shunned.

The idea of Peter Dinklage being the only person able to play Tyrion was cemented when I first saw him Impslap Joffrey. As for being snubbed at the Emmys, they unfortunately do that to many worthy actors and actresses and reward those who play their own little games of celebrity politics despite the fact that these people often appear in shows many of us would just dismiss as drek.

[MattSilver 3k]

Also, you know the one thing that kinda irks me? Littlefinger has all his little fingers still. When I first heard the name, I figured he lost one of them in some kind of gambling debt, but nope! Then I figured he'd lose one later... Nope!

[Cold Fuzz]

Also, you know the one thing that kinda irks me? Littlefinger has all his little fingers still. When I first heard the name, I figured he lost one of them in some kind of gambling debt, but nope! Then I figured he'd lose one later... Nope!

There's still ample opportunity for that in the coming books. I personally think that GRRM won't be able to complete the series with just 7 books btw and that it'll go to 8 or maybe 9. It could be that in one of those books, Littlefinger will finally part with a little finger. Either that or he'll have a gash that he and Varys will be able to commiserate about.