Amy's Choice (3107/507)

[Alan]

The Doctor versus the Doctor, but without any ethics. That story, in the hands of Steven Moffat hopefully, will be...EPIC. Maybe this is a hint of what's to come - I get the impression the Moff favours hints and long arcs even more than RTD, and this entire episode could be a sort of teaser of his long term plan for Who.

I really do hope your right. Steven Moffat has a habit of thinking long-term that's for sure. The Dream Lord feels like more than just a one story wonder to me. The Dream Lord...River Song...the Daleks...the crack in space/time...Jenny (presumably Jenny because he asked Russell T. Davis not to kill her off). What has Mr. Moffat got boiling away with all these things in that big, brilliant brain of his. I look forward to the future when it looks to the past for the future.

[Teddybrown]

I really do hope your right. Steven Moffat has a habit of thinking long-term that's for sure. The Dream Lord feels like more than just a one story wonder to me. The Dream Lord...River Song...the Daleks...the crack in space/time...Jenny (presumably Jenny because he asked Russell T. Davis not to kill her off). What has Mr. Moffat got boiling away with all these things in that big, brilliant brain of his. I look forward to the future when it looks to the past for the future.

He definately seems to be leaving lots of windows open, and making lots of opportunites for things to return
Could all be a setup for a brilliant finale, but hopefully lots of these things make it into season 6

[Alan]

He definately seems to be leaving lots of windows open, and making lots of opportunites for things to return
Could all be a setup for a brilliant finale, but hopefully lots of these things make it into season 6

Indeed. And beyond that hopefully.

[Draygon]

A very good episode. I admit I found it very brilliant. Actually nearly had me teary at some points!

And the theory that the Dream Lord was, or at least part of, the Valyard? Got my vote!

I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

[Matt G]

1. The village felt off from the start - that was pretty obviously fake - Rory's death in that reality pretty much confirmed it.

2. The cold star seemed wierd and something should have told me the physics were impossible but this is scifi - it does impossible and as the village also seemed off...

3. Dream Lord = Doctor's dark side. Not that original idea but done well enough and as the old school fans reminded me - has been done before for the Dr.

4. Liked that the clincher was Rory dying.

Wierd but very good.

[P-90_177]

The Doctor versus the Doctor, but without any ethics. That story, in the hands of Steven Moffat hopefully, will be...EPIC. Maybe this is a hint of what's to come - I get the impression the Moff favours hints and long arcs even more than RTD, and this entire episode could be a sort of teaser of his long term plan for Who.

I suspect we'll see him again. Esspecially since you see the Dreamlords reflection in the TARDIS console for a second.

But I don't think he was really the Doctor without ethics. Keep in mind that in the venice ep the Doctor wanted to try and bring Amy and Rory together, but it didn't entirely work out. So instead the Doctors subconcious took over and did it for him..........just with somewhat less tact. Afterall none of them were ever in any danger.

[Draygon]

I suspect we'll see him again. Esspecially since you see the Dreamlords reflection in the TARDIS console for a second.

But I don't think he was really the Doctor without ethics. Keep in mind that in the venice ep the Doctor wanted to try and bring Amy and Rory together, but it didn't entirely work out. So instead the Doctors subconcious took over and did it for him..........just with somewhat less tact. Afterall none of them were ever in any danger.

Except from their own minds. It is actually possible to think yourself to death if you're convinced you'er goign to die.

[P-90_177]

Except from their own minds. It is actually possible to think yourself to death if you're convinced you'er goign to die.

I suspect that even the Doctors subconcious wouldn't legitimately hurt Amy or Rory. The point of the dreams were to see which one Amy would chose, Rory or The Doc.

[Sealurk]

I suspect we'll see him again. Esspecially since you see the Dreamlords reflection in the TARDIS console for a second.

But I don't think he was really the Doctor without ethics. Keep in mind that in the venice ep the Doctor wanted to try and bring Amy and Rory together, but it didn't entirely work out. So instead the Doctors subconcious took over and did it for him..........just with somewhat less tact. Afterall none of them were ever in any danger.

Sorry, I was actually talking about the Valeyard (who is essentially the Doctor's dark and evil side) when I said the Doctor without ethics - I thought at the time that I should have made it clearer! I think the Doctor versus the Valeyard would be the ultimate final story, and I'm dying to see how Moffat deals with the Doctor coming to the end of his regenerative cycle. Just me going off at a tangent, as usual.

But you do bring up a good point. I hadn't fully realised that this episode has the Doctor's subconscious doing what his conscious mind couldn't quite manage - though, as you say, in a pretty blunt way. This in itself makes sense though - people often need very dramatic examples to make them change or realise important things, so it was probably very deliberate. Venice and blood-sucking Saturnynine fish-people wasn't enough to 'fix' Rory and Amy, so it was obviously going to take the (simulated) death of Rory to make Amy realise just how important he was to her.

Anybody else think the appearance of the Dream Lord in the console may imply that it wasn't psychic pollen at all, and the Doctor just said it was because the truth is much scarier - that the Dream Lord is real, and not a figment of the Doctor's imagination/subconscious?

[Teddybrown]

Sorry, I was actually talking about the Valeyard (who is essentially the Doctor's dark and evil side) when I said the Doctor without ethics - I thought at the time that I should have made it clearer! I think the Doctor versus the Valeyard would be the ultimate final story, and I'm dying to see how Moffat deals with the Doctor coming to the end of his regenerative cycle. Just me going off at a tangent, as usual.

But you do bring up a good point. I hadn't fully realised that this episode has the Doctor's subconscious doing what his conscious mind couldn't quite manage - though, as you say, in a pretty blunt way. This in itself makes sense though - people often need very dramatic examples to make them change or realise important things, so it was probably very deliberate. Venice and blood-sucking Saturnynine fish-people wasn't enough to 'fix' Rory and Amy, so it was obviously going to take the (simulated) death of Rory to make Amy realise just how important he was to her.

Anybody else think the appearance of the Dream Lord in the console may imply that it wasn't psychic pollen at all, and the Doctor just said it was because the truth is much scarier - that the Dream Lord is real, and not a figment of the Doctor's imagination/subconscious?

I just thought that the Dream Lord in the console was just showing that it was the Doctors dark side and that hes still there in the Doctors mind, or that he was seeing what he didnt like about himself in his reflection
But now you say that the physic pollen was just an excuse, could be some other reason behind it and the Doctors not telling the truth, but could also imply its not the last we have seen of him, or else why put the image there, unless it was just to make us think

[P-90_177]

I just thought that the Dream Lord in the console was just showing that it was the Doctors dark side and that hes still there in the Doctors mind, or that he was seeing what he didnt like about himself in his reflection
But now you say that the physic pollen was just an excuse, could be some other reason behind it and the Doctors not telling the truth, but could also imply its not the last we have seen of him, or else why put the image there, unless it was just to make us think

Hopefully next time We see The Dreamlord it will be just him and The Doctor. I mean this episode was fundementally about Amy more than anything else and her relationship with Rory. I think it'll be interesting if next time The Doctor is locked within his own mind and has to go head to head with his subconcious.

[Teddybrown]

Hopefully next time We see The Dreamlord it will be just him and The Doctor. I mean this episode was fundementally about Amy more than anything else and her relationship with Rory. I think it'll be interesting if next time The Doctor is locked within his own mind and has to go head to head with his subconcious.

Yeah, they could make it a good episode, maybe take him back to the Time War and test his conscience of destroying 2 races (well 1, seeing as the other escaped) and test him on other hard decisions hes had to make

[Sealurk]

"Red flashing lights, I bet they mean something."

I certainly liked the banter and dialogue in this one, even if the story left me a bit uninspired. But then that's to be expected when you have comedy writers like Steven Moffat, Toby Whithouse and Simon Nye (and if I remember correctly, Richard Curtis soon) working on a (generally) light hearted science fiction series.

Something odd stood out when I rewatched this ep - the name of the care home, Sarn. Does that seem odd and out of place to anybody else, almost like a Bad Wolf or Torchwood reference?

[Alan]

Sorry, I was actually talking about the Valeyard (who is essentially the Doctor's dark and evil side) when I said the Doctor without ethics - I thought at the time that I should have made it clearer! I think the Doctor versus the Valeyard would be the ultimate final story, and I'm dying to see how Moffat deals with the Doctor coming to the end of his regenerative cycle. Just me going off at a tangent, as usual.

But you do bring up a good point. I hadn't fully realised that this episode has the Doctor's subconscious doing what his conscious mind couldn't quite manage - though, as you say, in a pretty blunt way. This in itself makes sense though - people often need very dramatic examples to make them change or realise important things, so it was probably very deliberate. Venice and blood-sucking Saturnynine fish-people wasn't enough to 'fix' Rory and Amy, so it was obviously going to take the (simulated) death of Rory to make Amy realise just how important he was to her.

Anybody else think the appearance of the Dream Lord in the console may imply that it wasn't psychic pollen at all, and the Doctor just said it was because the truth is much scarier - that the Dream Lord is real, and not a figment of the Doctor's imagination/subconscious?

I just thought that the Dream Lord in the console was just showing that it was the Doctors dark side and that hes still there in the Doctors mind, or that he was seeing what he didnt like about himself in his reflection
But now you say that the physic pollen was just an excuse, could be some other reason behind it and the Doctors not telling the truth, but could also imply its not the last we have seen of him, or else why put the image there, unless it was just to make us think

I think the Doctor's dark side will always be there. It's always been there...it's just that the psychic pollen has given it a face and a personality now. It's brought it closer to the surface than its ever been before.

As for the psychic pollen...What if somehow the Doctor's dark side got imprinted on it and with him chucking it out in to the space/time vortex he's accidentally given it to the High Council of Time Lords who in turn use the essence of the Dream Lord to create the Valeyard? A reach perhaps...but it would explain how the Time Lords created the Valeyard in the first place.

[Alan]

"Red flashing lights, I bet they mean something."

I certainly liked the banter and dialogue in this one, even if the story left me a bit uninspired. But then that's to be expected when you have comedy writers like Steven Moffat, Toby Whithouse and Simon Nye (and if I remember correctly, Richard Curtis soon) working on a (generally) light hearted science fiction series.

Something odd stood out when I rewatched this ep - the name of the care home, Sarn. Does that seem odd and out of place to anybody else, almost like a Bad Wolf or Torchwood reference?

"Sarn" has been used twice before in Doctor Who. The first time was as the name of a planet in the 1984 story Planet of Fire on which the Master planned to use Numismaton Gate to restore his life force and make him stronger. The second time was as the name of a character in the 1987 story Time and the Rani who was killed after stepping in a trap set by the renegade Time Lord, the Rani. If it was a link to any of those, my money would be on the planet.