Sacrifice (216)

[boodoosy]

I have to defend Dee and try to stop everyone from hating on her. When Billy proposed to Dee, I thought she would feel guilty and accept his proposal to spare his feelings. That would have been the WRONG thing to do. Instead, she was honest with him and refused his proposal. Although it may have been hard for Billy to accept, it was the honest and RIGHT thing to do. To many times on TV have I seen someone accepting a proposal out of sympathy. Just when I thought Dee would do the same, she surprised me with her honesty, and prevented the situation from becoming complicated.

Dee also tried to save Billy's bacon by strongly advising him to stop watching the armed guards. She also reminded him that he is not a soldier and should not do anything to get himself hurt. But for some reason, Billy chose to ignore the advice of a trained warrior and went out with guns a blazing. In the end, Dee was right AGAIN! Billy's death, although sad, has to be pinned on Billy, not Dee.

To me, Billy was just too immature, and there is nothing wrong with that. Most of us have learned about love through hurt and pain. This was Billy's time to learn that same lesson, however, no one was there to comfort him and tell him how it is all a part of life, and it is more likely to happen again than not.

Sharon, of course, is great as ever. Just when you think know her, she flips it on you. Refusing to divulge the identities of other Cylons in the fleet should have put Adama on notice. She really can't be trusted. Maybe she is plotting against the humans or maybe she is saving this bit of info as her ace to be played when it is most advantageous to her. Who knows?

I loved it when Tigh was point blank brutal in his honesty with Adama about Sharon. Adama needed to hear that kind of candor from somone close to him.

There is so much more I want to comment on, but I have forgotten the rest. Anyway, I just wanted to tell everyone to stop the Dee Hate.

[ShadowMaat]

You can ask folks to stop the Dee Hate all you like, but as for telling us... No. I make up my OWN mind about things and form my OWN opinions about actions and characters and I still dislike Dee and what she did. I'm well within my right to feel that way and to express my displeasure.

[boodoosy]

Wow, ShadowMaat,
I wasn't really trying to "tell" people to do anything. Sorry you understood it that way, but the post was in jest. Tell you what, to make you feel better, then I am ASKING people to stop hating on Dee. Hope that makes it easier for you.

At any rate, I am curious why so many hate Dee. What has she done to earn so much hate?

[thebiggfrogg]

Another thing I liked about this episode was how Starbuck's playing fast and loose bit her in the a**. I love the characterization of all the Galactica characters flaws and all, but since everyone seems to dis Lee in favor of Starbuck I thought it might be a good moment to be a contrarian. Starbuck's hotshot attitude and desire to play on the "bleeding edge" is bound to catch up with her and create a problem or two (Starbuck says this herself before she makes a pass at Lee and talks about how sooner or later they will have a bad day and they will not live to see the end of the fleet's journey). Starbuck feels the need to be the one storming in, but was that the right choice (Ellen Tigh's lack of poker face aside)? If I remember correctly she was seen fleetwide in a news doc about Galactica. Maybe, just, maybe one of the terrorists might have seen her in that and could ID her (and the chances of that are probably even higher, because with these terrorists' obsession I would think they would go out of their way to watch anything that focused on the military). I loved the whole friendly fire thing. Just like Galactica not to do the usual Yippi-ki-yi-yeah! As someone else on this post said almost everything went wrong. Great stuff!

[thebiggfrogg]

Wow, ShadowMaat,
I wasn't really trying to "tell" people to do anything. Sorry you understood it that way, but the post was in jest. Tell you what, to make you feel better, then I am ASKING people to stop hating on Dee. Hope that makes it easier for you.

At any rate, I am curious why so many hate Dee. What has she done to earn so much hate?

These characters are so intricate that I think everyone can bounce their own personal experience off them and react. Maybe there are a lot of "Billys" out there or "FOBs" ("Friends of Billys"). I had my own experience and my ex-wife was Dee, but with seven or eight years of reflection time I can forgive my ex (hence I can understand the what is happening with Dee and don't hate her). Again, Galactica characters--warts and all. If I want heroic perfection and moral rectitude I'll tune into Superman (which is fun in its own right). If I want something that makes me think and that can start a discussion with a friend, I'll tune into Galactica.

[Korora]

Just in light of the Billy/Dee/Apollo/Starbuck relationship tangle, I find it interesting that most people are focusing only on Dee's actions in the negative light. While I agree that it's unfair of her to have treated Billy in such a roundabout manner while feeling out her status with Lee, I don't think Dee is so deserving of reproach. For one, while she wasn't entirely truthful with Billy about her feelings, there are no indications that she was actually cheating on him with the CAG. She never once *threw* herself at Lee, rather only having asked him, once, what he felt about the situation between them. And while she was, in a way, leading Billy on by not addressing her attraction to Apollo, she wasn't actively pursuing the latter. I still don't agree with her silence in the matter, nor her *speculative* date with Lee on the Cloud 9 in this episode, but I don't think she was too much in the wrong.

Also, Dee didn't just jump on Lee after Billy died - at least not entirely from a romantic angle, anyway. Someone really important to her just died, after she caused him a considerable amount of pain. Not only is there guilt there, but the person that she jilted him for (who she obviously cares for a great deal, as well) is also in critical condition. Emotional fragility should send her to the side of someone that she holds dear. Added to the intense worry for his safety, it only makes sense that she'd run to Lee.

On the whole angle of a woman doing a prospective partner wrong, actually, I think Starbuck is really more of a fitting candidate. Given the fact that she knows, or at least has very clear signs, of Lee's feelings for her, and that she continuously flirts, or initiates...contact with him, while at the same time pushing him away. That, and she's "hung up on a dead guy". Over all, she's being quite unfair. Particularly since she's not only using him on an emotional level to deal with her own pain and confusion, but also on a physical level - which for many people, is what really crosses the line in these situations.

And then there's Lee, who can't seem to make up his mind about *anyone*. And being such a stereotypical man in the process, as well. Ugh.

The only one who hasn't done anything reprehensible in this situation is Billy. I'm sad that he died, really. I was rooting for him. And you could tell that Dee cared for him - quite a bit. And Roslin. Ack - that scene made me teary. I'm rather disappointed that there won't be more to do with Billy in the future. I had such high hopes.

[AutumnDream]

Since Epiphanies, the show hasn't quite been the same. Not as good, actually. It seems like the episodes have been focusing in on a certain set of characters instead of using them all, and the much-cherished continuous storylines of BSG have been shoved away in favor of more bottled episodes. I can't imagine that this will go on forever, but it really has taken a lot from the show. Not to mention the lack of multiple plot threads within one episode. It used to be like, "Meanwhile on Caprica!", "Meanwhile on Colonial One!", "Meanwhile on Kobol!". Now it's just, "Meanwhile in the lounge!".

Also: Where's my favorite guy Gaius, and his magical imaginary girl? He wasn't in Scar either. While I'm at it, more Helo too please.

I don't think anyone cares about this Lee/Dee crap. It just flew out of nowhere and nobody thinks it's cool. This show has way too many other, cooler things to explore to be lingering on stuff like that.

Like everyone else, I'm not pleased about Billy's death either. >.<

[Lady Snow]

Also: Where's my favorite guy Gaius, and his magical imaginary girl? He wasn't in Scar either. While I'm at it, more Helo too please.

And where on Galactica is the Chief? And really, whatever happened to the Pegasus' previous CAG (the one whose name escapes me at the moment)?

I hope they start using this awesome ensemble cast again sometime soon.

[Vyrsace]

I don't care what negative angle everyone is trying to view this episode at, but I must insist that this is one great episode. My heart was pumping with anxiety to see what happened next. There wasn't really any singular moment that I can say was 'the best moment'. Throughout the whole episode, it was like a quiet drama playing out that you weren't quite sure why everything was happening but still watched and listened only because you couldn't quite draw any conclusions until the very end.

I think everyone is getting to comfortable with the fact that the last few recent episodes were a bit less packed with climatic upturns around every corner and are getting to comfortable with bad comments. How else do you expect the local drama episodes to end before they get back to the cylon scenarios and such? Say they scripped Scar and Sacrifice, then continued onwards with finding Earth again? Then what? Would we complain that they left these subplots were ignored? too short? No matter what we're fancying ourselves into being tough customers and, eventually, we won't be able to see anything else than a negative light.

Criticsm is quite over-rated. If you're going to be unsatisified with every aspect of the show (or whatever you fanaticize about) then, by ALL MEANS, do yourself the favor and stop participating (watching, doing, listening, etc.). Take up journalism or some other type of constructive processing, because you're only hurting yourself from doing something you spend an hour to watch only to find it sub-par with everything else that you find better. Why not watch what you think is better? Criticsm is a comparison of what is good to what is bad and making judgement with that basis, right? Well there have been plenty of Battlestar Galactica episodes to judge if you like it or if you don't. If you don't like it by now then just plainly stop and I mean STOP. Otherwise sit back, watch, and ENJOY. Choose.

[Speakfire]

Pegasus's previous CAG Captain Taylor AKA Stinger isn't coming back to the show. In the podcast, RDM says that he had other acting obligations and would not be returning, which was a shame because the guy was such a jerk

[stop]

You can see at gateworld a couple of pictures of episode 16 sacrifice you see there that Lee and Dee are kissing but I did not see that during the episode did I watched a incomplete episode or what

http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s...s/216_07.shtml

http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s...s/216_08.shtml

[Aussie_86]

I do not like Dee anymore. why? Because, i used to like her. I thought she was sweet and honest. Now, i don't. Why? Because, Billy proposes to her, and straight away, she's on a date with Apollo... Becasue Billy Proposed to her, and is now dead, and she's gone straight to Apollo. In the last scene where she's sittin with Apollo, i was half expecting her to go "we aren't doing this anymore", for the main reson of respect. A man who loved her, who wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, is now dead, adn she'd been lookin at someone else... have a lil respect damn tramp!

Apart from that, i wish next week's episode would be a starbuck episode... just to see what she's going through now. Yeah, but, i dont think so.

Where's Baltar? I think he's up to something, and i'd hate it if in one episode he just pops up going "hey, look what i've been doing for the timespan of the last couple of episodes"


Overall, on the entire episode, i was suprised. I'd watched the "next weeks preview" on Scifi.com for this ep, and was like "oh wow, how many movies have been done on this??? Another one! Woohoo (sarcastic)". But, i was very, very, suprised.

Keep up the good stuff!

[Blue Banrigh]

I do not like Dee anymore. why? Because, i used to like her. I thought she was sweet and honest. Now, i don't. Why? Because, Billy proposes to her, and straight away, she's on a date with Apollo... Becasue Billy Proposed to her, and is now dead, and she's gone straight to Apollo. In the last scene where she's sittin with Apollo, i was half expecting her to go "we aren't doing this anymore", for the main reson of respect. A man who loved her, who wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, is now dead, adn she'd been lookin at someone else... have a lil respect damn tramp!

She's a tramp because she's keeping vigil over a friend who nearly died?

[Agent_Dark]

I do not like Dee anymore. why? Because, i used to like her. I thought she was sweet and honest. Now, i don't. Why? Because, Billy proposes to her, and straight away, she's on a date with Apollo... Becasue Billy Proposed to her, and is now dead, and she's gone straight to Apollo. In the last scene where she's sittin with Apollo, i was half expecting her to go "we aren't doing this anymore", for the main reson of respect. A man who loved her, who wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, is now dead, adn she'd been lookin at someone else... have a lil respect damn tramp!

So she should have accepted Billy's proposal instead even though she knew she had feelings for Apollo? Then sought comfort with Lee while her fiance was lying dead?
A big part of the grieving process is seeking comfort in people who still live.

[ShadowMaat]

She led Billy on. She knew she didn't love him, she was actively pursuing another man, she used him as "consolation" when Lee originally rejected her, but she never actually broke it off with him. Hell, technically, I don't think she even told him it was over when he proposed, she just said she couldn't marry him. If she knew she didn't want him, she should have told him. And just because it's a "realistic" reaction to hide it and put off the confrontation doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd hate it in a real person and I hate it in Dee.

And no, Lee wasn't much better. He led Dee on, flirting in a heavy-handed manner and then brushing her off when she confronted him. But he still agreed to have drinks with her and while we weren't shown the context of how they came to be in that lounge, I had the definite impression that they were "together". He certainly never told Billy "it's not what you think" when Billy came upon them. If it wasn't a date, if they'd just bumped into each other, he could have said so. Billy might not have believed him, but at least it'd be out there.

I don't like either character, although my dislike of Lee extends a lot deeper and for more reasons.