Epiphanies (213)

[userfriendly]

wait i think i found it, it's when she says that the teachers strike is not worth dying for .. she looks and the guy she's talking to looks also .. there are 4 people talking, 3 females 1 male. 1 of the females does look like roslin from the back, the guy was wearing a uniform but i cant make a face and the 2 other women, i really can't tell, also in the upper left corner, you see baltar and #6 walking .. or is it baltar n #6?

i know Janine has already posted some screencaps, i captured some additional images from the flashback-scenes. obviously roslin sees baltar meeting with a blonde (six). i don't know if those other people were meant to represent characters we do or do not suspect at this point to be cylons, but... look for yourself:


this one, along with the next two, is from the first scene. while roslins attention at this moment belongs to her conversational partner, we see that white or silver suitcases are not that an uncommon view, neither are colonial uniforms.


here roslin spots baltar as he meets six. there is also a colonial officer in the caption, but i don't think we can pinpoint him and the others to any ship or even if we could, it wouldn't be very useful.


this one, only a few frames after the last one is quite interesting, as the woman who baltar passes as he and six walk along looks imho a little bit like sharon, but again, we can't say much as the image isn't that sharp. i tried several times to get a clearer frame but this was the best one.


this is from the scene where roslin has her line about "reasons worth dying for? not this one". as she looks again in baltar's direction we see him and six and a gathering of four people with suitcases - one of them indeed does look like roslin from behind, but hey, how many times you thought you'd spotted someone familiar only to realize you're wrong as soon as the person turns around? about the other three, i don't know... two female students and another random colonial officer?


ok, another "shot from behind", but the two ladies standing close together left from roslin look like... uhm... six and deanna biers from behind? ok, that doesn't say much, see above.


and finally, the scene roslin remembers before waking up from the shock her body is in due to the cylon blood injection. in her flashback she clearly sees the face of one known cylon model and relates it to baltar (he is meeting her). then she wakes up, looks at sharon (another cylon) and then the next face she sees is baltar and she instinctively shies away from him.

it will be interesting to see if roslin remembers that particular flashback when she's on her feet again, and if so, how much will she believe what she has seen? after all, it might just have been a feverish dream while dying.

[SlytherinGal]

okay, there is something about this episode that really got to me..and i mean that in a good way...i LOVED the eppy

now, i need your guys' opinion on something, after seeing this eppy, do you think Baltar is going to turn against Adama and Roslin and the fleet somehow?

[HarshCritic]

Well, we only know that they know she's a Cylons because we seen the portfolio of 'Known Cylons' on the President's desk when Vice President Baltar sat down and read it. The only public announcement they had made about known Cylons was about Leoben Conoyand and that other cylon, the tourist guide one from the mini-series (forget his name but feel free to correct me, thanks). Sure, they could have revealed to the public about Six being another known Cylon without showing it on the episodes but they would have atleast mentioned it too. Even if it was revealed to the public through any sort of broadcast, cultists usually don't listen or regard the news at all as fact or even with rationale. So it's not a huge stretch to say that they wouldn't know she's a Cylon but I don't think that it was even revealed to the masses, yet.

In the episode where they decide to reveal to the public about cylons looking like humans. I think it was the with Doral, but I am not sure. Either Roslin or Adama mention putting pictures of all known cylons up throughout the fleet. It is hard to believe people wouldn't have paid attention to this photos after an announcemnet like that.

I think that maybe Thrace is pregnant and the cylon baby in the commercial may be hers. In the very first scenes of the episode, she was not her usual self.

[userfriendly]

... It is hard to believe people wouldn't have paid attention to this photos after an announcemnet like that...

the dialogue between baltar and gina is clear about that (at 24 min 26 sec) - when the guard has left the room, baltar asks her "do they have any idea what you are?" and she replies "of course not, even their dedication has limits."

[Oka]

The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

[ToasterOnFire]

It was a slower episode this week, which is just fine since I'm still recovering from the nail-biting tension and pace of the trilogy. I knew that the Pres wasn't going to die in this ep and the previews sort of gave away the solution to her ills so I wasn't at the edge of my seat here. Still, it was a nice character study of Roslin and continued to show Baltar's decline to the dark side.

-I enjoyed Roslin's flashbacks with the last pres. She does seem to have a thing for men in power, doesn't she? I'm also interested in seeing where they go with the Six flashbacks - is Roslin going to implicate Baltar and remove him as VP?

-The whole peace movement subplot was rather absurd, but at least it moved along Gina's plotline. I say give the bunch a ship and leave them behind to negotiate peace with the cyclons.

-Baltar is turning into quite the ick, isn't he? I can't believe he couldn't control himself around Gina. Creepy. I am a bit confused as to how Baltar managed to smuggle a warhead between ships. Weren't there nuclear detectors or something?

[userfriendly]

The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

i really think the only people of interest here are baltar and six - all others are merely supernumeraries. i mean, come on... why should there be such a gathering of cylon agents in one small location? and fisk is too old to be a cylon as is roslin.

[entil2001]

As I had anticipated, this episode was a bit of a letdown after the previous installment’s near-perfection. But it wasn’t a complete and total loss by any means. A lot of plot threads are addressed along the way, and the writers put the pieces for the final arc of the season on the board. In fact, one critical piece is dropped right into the center of the board in the final scene, paying off a dangling plot element from early in the first season.

In my review for a recent episode of “Stargate: SG-1” (ep. 9-12), I noted that the episode in question could have benefited from taking the format adopted by “Lost” to explore the past of a main character through flashbacks. This episode actually proves my point. This episode was very much in the vein of “Lost” in terms of Roslin’s flashbacks, and though the circumstances were very different, it allowed events from the past to intersect and influence the present and future.

It makes perfect sense that some segment of the human population would wonder if surrender to the Cylons could be a viable option. It’s likely that they don’t know or willfully forget that surrender was offered during the original attack. Whatever the case, if there were those who were still ready to return to the Colonies and fight back, despite the odds, the opposing point of view would naturally emerge. What’s interesting is how easily they were pushed, presumably by Gina, towards violence.

Of course, that makes sense. With the Cylon fleet now out of the picture, the Cylons within the Colonial Fleet need to take the steps necessary to achieve the overall goal, which means subversion from within. I also expect that these actions will give another Cylon fleet a chance to make a move. (It’s no guarantee that the Cylons don’t already have another fleet in position, but it would make things more interesting if the action focused on the Colonial internal issues for a while.)

Roslin certainly has an interesting past (teachers in a violent strike and sleeping with the President?), but most important, I think, is her memory of Baltar and Six. If she had doubts about Baltar before, she certainly has more of them now! Something tells me Mr. Nice Gaius is going to be a primary focus through the rest of the season, especially his interplay with Gina. Speaking of which, I loved how she reacted to his overtures.

As for the Cylon child and the danger it poses, I can see why Roslon would be so adamant, but exactly what is she afraid of? More importantly, she’s missing something critical. The child is the result of a union between human and Cylon, which means genetic compatibility. Her own restoration is proof enough of that (as convenient, yet inevitable, as it was). Letting the child be born and then studying it is one way to understand the enemy. After all, there’d be a true Cylon (Sharon), humans, and the hybrid…three degrees of differentiation. The real question, morally, is whether or not that study would be on living tissue.

I agree with Ron Moore on one thing. As great as it is to have so many plot threads carried forward in this episode, it just doesn’t come together as well as it could have. For one thing, as the secret leader of the Cylon Sympathizers, Gina is in rather comfortable quarters. Ron says it’s a brothel; there’s nothing in frame to suggest that. It could have been much worse of a letdown, but that said, it’s still a bit of a letdown.

[userfriendly]

i think he mentioned something like they wanted to make it a brothel first but in the final draft it turned out to be a simple hotel room. when he says "back at the brothel" in the podcast he's just joking or not?

[voigtstr]

I was hoping that when we saw 6 and Baltar together through Roslyn's eyes that we would also see who 6 was meeting when she was waiting for someone during the pilot.

[Lady Snow]

The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

That was actually my first thought when I saw the screencaps. The man has the same head, which was a hint for me. It would be... funny, I guess... if Fisk were a Cylon, but I like him too much to honestly wish that upon him

[alaskannut]

I basically don't understand the need for a group of people wanting peace with the cylons. granted not everyone may know the whole facts but really now, didn't the events in "33" tell these people anything. do you think the next time a cylon ship arrives, they will respond with hails of peace ?

Never underestimate either the stupidity or the gullibility of people

[triabita]

Hello, nasty rant slightly off topic follows...

Baltar: Ok, can someone explain to me how a guy jerking around, talking to himself be the vice president of the colonies?

He has been cought too many times from various personel varying from random crew up to Roslin and Adama to literaly jerk and act totaly insane (this episode he was choking himself by pulling his own tie, frame with a crew member looking at him).

His scientific mastermind is still not enough to not have raised one single eyebrow throught the whole series.

Also i am under the impression that no man could stay sain should he be exposed to such an experience as Baltar, having a second persona (#6) constantly in his mind.

apart from that, i really love BSG =)

--===KILL BALTAR===--

[Othere]

The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

He looks too well built to be Fisk (could be mistaken though)
I think he looks similar to one of the two thugs who tried it on with Helo and the Chief in the Brig last week.

[Cathara]

I felt this was a great episode, as always! Didn't leave me as breathless as usual - but I was still locked to the screen every minute, trying to absorb all the aspects of what I was seeing...great TV!

Several thoughts (sorry so long)...

* I am not surprised at the formation of the peace movement. I think something like it was inevitable. My impression was that the movement had only recently become organized (this from a comment Baltar made when he was shown a brochure.)

Gina's arrival (Clark Kent disguise - LOL!) has taken a group of frightened people that did nothing but talk before and turned them into a subversive group capable of violence. Scary! Bad Cylon! Very naughty!

* Roslin's flashbacks - I will have to go back and look at them again, but one thing I would keep in mind is that the human mind is a funny thing. Dreams and even memories can play tricks with it. I think Roslin's mind had been trying to tell her something about Baltar for a while now.

All of the suspicious figures found in those flashback scenes, the similar cases, etc. could be a result of Roslin's mind mixing up elements - all pointing towards the key factor of Baltar's involvement with a Cylon. Or it could just be the writer's of the show messing with us. Or we could just be reading way too much into things... No matter what, it's still fun to speculate.

* The almost abortion - That was not cool. I respect the characters of Roslin and Adama tremendously, but I think they were way off base with the call to abort the baby. Because of anomalies in it's blood? No better reason than that? I just couldn't understand the justification.

IMHO - The truth is...the baby was to be killed because they were frighted of what it might be. Just as they are still frightened of Sharon. With good cause, and I'll grant that easily.

I just keep going back to the thought that there might be no better way to end the conflict between human and cylon than for them both to have the same "grandchildren", so to speak.

This baby - and any like it to follow - could be the fleet's best hope. Or it's worst. It's random - and that makes it very interesting!

* Finally, I think that the scene of Roslin watching pregnant Boomer at the end of the show was important. Roslin's eyes seemed to show that she was seeing a pregnant woman lovingly communing with her unborn child, not just a cylon prisoner. Of course, she owed her life to said woman/child so maybe, just maybe her attitude will soften a bit now.

But will Sharon be receptive at this point? After a near rape? After an abortion that almost was forced? I think she will still want to take Helo and get the frack out of there - and I might feel the same way myself!

* I can't end my post without a comment on Baltar. Poor Gaius - he is really, really screwed up. He's like a ping pong ball, knocked here and there by his own emotions, Six's manipulations, etc.

He had one brief, shining moment of standing up for what was right! Not only his speech to Gina, but then his efforts to save both the baby and Roslin.

I think that note from Roslin cut through the good (if smug) feelings he had and reminded him that a few good deeds would not be enough to erase his past.

He is a loose canon - very dangerous, very smart, and somewhat unpredictable. I look forward to seeing the way he develops in future episodes!