Resurrection Ship, Part 2 (212)

[userfriendly]

we now, apparantly, have two cylons in the fleet that are sympathetic to the humans. what's to say there's not more?

neither of these two is sympathetic to the humans:

sharon presumably still believes that humanity as a whole doesn't deserve to survive (to adama: *hint hint* "...maybe you don't."). her motivations are the survival of her baby and one human named helo.

gina also isn't that interested in humanity's survival. her betrayal of the cylons by giving baltar information about the airforce chapel ship (beautiful thing, btw) was all too obviously motivated by her will to definitively die and not be resurrected - but now as she won't kill herself (because, conveniently, suicide is sin) and baltar would rather shoot himself in the head than blow her brains against the bulkhead, she has had time to rethink her motivation (and decides to finally take out the character whose actor had only signed for a limited amount of episodes, the wonderful michelle forbes, thank you for this great performance as the admiral). oh my frakkin gods, that scene, when baltar hands gina the gun and utters that oneliner, the looks on their faces and then she walks away, the music... perfect. that was the best scene of the whole series, i totally adored it it had that special dark, cynical and yet very cool touch most of the tarantino movies have during their best scenes

i'm not saying that none of these two might actually switch sides later on (or rather take a side again, as my impression is that they both are only on one side: their own. they're to the cylons probably what baltar is to the humans), i just say that they are at this point not sympathetic to humanity itself.

[Quinn Mallory]

we now, apparantly, have two cylons in the fleet that are sympathetic to the humans. what's to say there's not more?

Rather than having two cylons that are sympathetic to the humans (which I would also argue to be not true), there are definitely now 2 cylons that have the sympothies of some humans.

[Shipperahoy]

I don't know that I would say that Gina is sympathetic towards humans. After all she was gang-raped and tortured by them, how much sympathy can she have? I think that perhaps her perception has altered some and her ultimate goals have shifted somewhat from the other Cylons but I don't see her having any kind of a more positive view of humans.

[userfriendly]

Rather than having two cylons that are sympathetic to the humans (which I would also argue to be not true), there are definitely now 2 cylons that have the sympothies of some humans.

thank you, that's more to the point. our protagonists reacting to these two is really one of the most intriguing parts of BSG.

[TameFarrar]

First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!!

I was just blown away by everyone's performance and just completely enthralled for the entire time. Thank you Ron Moore et al for continuing to create such fantastic stories and Thank you to the cast for delivering such WOW performances.

*First I am one that CHEERED, literally, when Cain was shot. My first remark when they broke away for commercial was "Gads I hope they don't save her some how."
Cain was a fine character/antagonist for the few episodes that she was there but NOTHING absolutely NOTHING that happened in this episode made me feel that she was anything other than a "Power-drugged, Manipulating, Murdering, Scheming, Unethical manical woman.
Actions speak louder than words to me and this *Admiral's* actions in dealing with the Cylon attack would be considered *War Crimes* . She KNOWINGLY stripped AND marrooned the civilian ships that were part of her command and left them to die at the hands of the enemy. She KNOWINGLY coerced and MURDERED innocent civilans in order to staff her ship. She KNOWINGLY murdered members of her own command in order to instill fear in her chain of command and then commenced to ruling through fear and intimidation. She KNOWINGLY condoned depraved and lewd acts upon a prisoner, regardless of the inner workings of said prisoner, this was still a POW and as an Admiral she has a duty and an obligation to uphold at the very least the traits and characteristics that separate humans from animals.
There is more but I don't want to use my entire post to list all of the atrocities that Admiral Cain committed to get to this episode.

So for her to have been shot in the head was almost ...almost too good for her.
Also while Cain and Adama butting heads did make for some tense moments for me that would have gootn *old* fairly quickly.

*Giaus and Six/Gina - What performance overall in all three of the episode of this trilogy by Tricia Helfer!! When you realize that she has not had that many roles prior to this I am just amazed and astounded at the range shown by this woman. She was beyond description (or spelling the phenom word ) WOW. This character IS the enemy and she has had no compuntion in killing her enemy and yet Tricia gave such a performance that you did feel sorry for this poor ravaged woman. Since we were given no real background on *how* Gina killed during her time on the Pegasus, I am going with the assuption that she followed her programming and killed quickly and stealthily, not wanting to draw attention and then upon detection fought like mad but at no time was there any indication that she went beyond what we would think of normally when thinking of a soldier killing in battle. For this reason I can think of absolutely NO reason for the treatment she received at teh hands of the Pegasus crew and the fact that she was the *Hand of Justice* in killing Cain was DEAD-ON and a perfect selection.
Although I too am a bit miffed at Sci-Fi for spoiling that moment because the gun , in the promos, was in the killer's LEFT hand and while my household was speculating it must be Dr Baltar since Kara is right handed and so is Lee, the FACT that they ruined that tension we SHOULD have had in the moments Kara faced cain was annoying

Giaus was so well played, confused, angry and vengeful all rolled into one man. Wonderful performance and very believable.
Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.


*Kara and Lee
Katee Sackoff can do no wrong in my eyes in most episodes. she just seems to have an innate feel for Starbuck and is incredible! However, I was a bit taken aback as well by her speech at Cain's funeral. Then as I read posts here some things jibbed. Thank you all you Kara posters
I do think she looked at Cain almost as a *Mother Figure* and the approval she got from her made her blind to a few things. This post stuck out to me as well.....

Kara didn't have all the info when she said those words at Cain's funeral.

2) Kara didn't know about the Civilian fleet Cain abandoned. Kara's big time on going back to rescue the survivors on Caprica, it wouldn't have sat well with her that Cain strnded several hundred people.

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Kara has no clue the extent of Admiral Cain's atrocities committed in teh name of war and human survival. In fact I think in the coming future we will see Kara spiral downward because she will have such a *Hero Complex* about Cain and will then begin finding out just how evil this woman really was and Kara will be at odds with herself that yet again the woman she CHOSE to admire turns out to be not only as bad but possibly even worse than her own mother.

Lee seems to be faced with having almost everything he believed that made him who he is torn to shreds. Each time he finds something solid to base his faith in, that person or ideal seems to crumble away in the pressure of things. He has yet to find a place within himself to make his stand.
I saw the fact that all this came about right when once again Kara needed him he would NOT be there to watch her back, physically OR emotionally and he was just done....

Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice

Adama and Laura
EJO and MM have got to be hands down the BEST casting desicion EVER made on this show The entire evolution of this relationship so far has been believable, real and just a HUGE pleasure to watch. The Promotion scene was just beautifully done and the superior talent of these two actors just boggles the mind. There was no need to even attempt to suspend disbelief. These two held me in the palm of their hands for that entire scene. Just incredible!!

other highlights
*The Pegasus first Officer's reaction to NOT having to shoot Adama was priceless and so real... well done
*The chief taunting the disgusting wanna be soldiers now turned depraved rapists was well done. Again superb job by the Peg. 1st Ofc. believable and well delivered
*The Chief upon returning to BSG and the reunion of Helo and Sharon
*** The entire battle scene WOW!!! I am definitely more of a charater driven person but I was again just blown away at the SFX of that sequence.

This show just keeps getting better and Better and I look forward to Fridays

[userfriendly]

you really like to make it short, do you?

First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!!

seconded

Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain

yes, we didn't see her anymore after they blew up that resurrection ship hmmmmm, i wonder....

Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.

lol then just watch the part 1 episode and actually listen to six while she is laying totally naked in baltars bed for fraks sake i admit it's hard to not just watch and drool, but if you listen to what she says to ensnare baltar again, that scene from part 2 will make more sense to you

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Kara has no clue the extent of Admiral Cain's atrocities committed in teh name of war and human survival...

i think in the meantime she knows, but imho it doesn't really matter. it may be more about the don't-speak-ill-of-the-dead-thing.

So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice

yeah that kind of worries me too. i mean, i wouldn't exactly want the characters to be celibate, but i'd feel sorry for the president's aide, what's his name, he is one of the few actually sane persons the average viewer can identify with

Adama and Laura
EJO and MM have got to be hands down the BEST casting desicion EVER made on this show

i absolutely agree. i thought, if there would be an all-too-soon series ending - this would be the best moment. no no wait, i didn't say i want the series to end, no please... put that knife away again, thank you and that bludgeon there, too no, i mean, IF they were to kill the series prematurely - which not many of us would be able to cope with at least not me - it would be nice if they manage to let it happen with such a really, really great episode.

[DaniGurl]

[QUOTE=TameFarrar]First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!!
Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice

QUOTE]

I don't understand how if Lee And Dee get involved it would make him a man whore. He hasn't had any other relationships that I know of. He can't get with Starbuck. Their relationship: one is just too complicated for that and more importantly two: she slept with his brother. Big fat yuck. They've already hinted at the Dee/Lee relationship--I can't remeber the ep--when he was teaching them how to fight. If Dee is sweet on him and I dunno, maybe she was going to see him and Starbuck was already there. Hell I would've listened too. And I think Billy is a Cylon.

D.

[madk99]

Giaus was so well played, confused, angry and vengeful all rolled into one man. Wonderful performance and very believable.
Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.

I think that was a bit of a test by Baltar. Her certainly knows that Internal Six (that slab of lunchmeat in his brain) is manipulating him -- but of course, he believes that he is actually in control. Think of this like the "advertising paradox". Ask a room full of people if advertising affects peoples behavior and most will aggree. Then ask those same people if advertising affects personally their individual behavior and no one will admit it. Each person thinks he is immune but it affects everyone else. (Try it)
In this same way Baltar knows that Lunchmeat Six is trying to manipulate him. He knows this and believes that his decisions are HIS decisions. I think this was one of those moments where a person suddenly realizes he has been duped all along. To verify this was true he tried to use the story just as it was used on him. And he confirmed that the story had the desired affect of manipulation of the tellee (as opposed to the teller )
So this, I think, is a change in relationship to the only one where Baltar feels comfortable -- the kind in which HE is in control. AFter he realized he was being controlled more than he thought, he sought to change the nature of the relationship. So he jettisoned the controller and picked up a controllee. One who was so emotionally damaged that now he has the upper hand.

[Bl4de]

Spoiler:

Gina lives, Cain dead = me happy ^,^

Also before complaining about anything listen to the podcast.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/down...ep212_FULL.mp3

Alot of plot things people complain about Moore explains so they make sense.

I don't know what people are complaining about this episode (I thought it was perfect), but really, should a TV series episode be made where the only way to get it to make sense is to be internet-literate and download a podcast off a site that's not easily advertised and sit there and listen to the producers explanations? I always thought good TV was the opposite of that, understanding what you just saw as you saw it, not having to research and download mp3's and listen to commentary...

But I really don't think that about BSG, I've never once listened to a podcast, I don't want the producer telling me what I'm supposed to think. I think the show does a perfect job of it.



On a side note, does anyone have any clue to the name of Bear McCreary's (BSG's composer) song names on this episode? Namely the one playing during the battle scenes and when Adama kisses Roslin.

[Liebestraume]

*And what's up with Dee sneaking around and listening to Lee and Kara's conversation? Hated that.

Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. ...

That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.

[TameFarrar]

First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!!
Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice

I don't understand how if Lee And Dee get involved it would make him a man whore. He hasn't had any other relationships that I know of. He can't get with Starbuck. Their relationship: one is just too complicated for that and more importantly two: she slept with his brother. Big fat yuck. They've already hinted at the Dee/Lee relationship--I can't remeber the ep--when he was teaching them how to fight. If Dee is sweet on him and I dunno, maybe she was going to see him and Starbuck was already there. Hell I would've listened too. And I think Billy is a Cylon.

D.

Mainly the reason I am a bit worried is because of OTHER rumors I have heard for episodes down the road passed Dee.....I have tried really hard to stay spoiler free so I don't know all the details but I do know there is more to come....plus the stuff with Dee was in *Deleted* scenes more than it was shown in the actual show so for me it is creepy

completely understand that not all folks like Lee and Kara ending up finding a way to finally be together once they work through all the emotional baggage....I personally am one that roots for that relationsip to finally happen

[TameFarrar]

I think that was a bit of a test by Baltar. Her certainly knows that Internal Six (that slab of lunchmeat in his brain) is manipulating him -- but of course, he believes that he is actually in control. Think of this like the "advertising paradox". Ask a room full of people if advertising affects peoples behavior and most will aggree. Then ask those same people if advertising affects personally their individual behavior and no one will admit it. Each person thinks he is immune but it affects everyone else. (Try it)
In this same way Baltar knows that Lunchmeat Six is trying to manipulate him. He knows this and believes that his decisions are HIS decisions. I think this was one of those moments where a person suddenly realizes he has been duped all along. To verify this was true he tried to use the story just as it was used on him. And he confirmed that the story had the desired affect of manipulation of the tellee (as opposed to the teller )
So this, I think, is a change in relationship to the only one where Baltar feels comfortable -- the kind in which HE is in control. AFter he realized he was being controlled more than he thought, he sought to change the nature of the relationship. So he jettisoned the controller and picked up a controllee. One who was so emotionally damaged that now he has the upper hand.

ok that makes some sense in a weird Baltarish sort of way

[TameFarrar]

That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.

I felt a bit jarred myself and that is why the *Creep* factor. We never know who might be a cylon and my husband agrees with the person who replied to me last and thinks Billy is one.....yells it out every time poor Billy shows up on the screen

But The fact that there really hasn't been a whole lot of build-up for this *Ship* with the exception of that very minute moment in the gym its hard to see this type of behavior from her.

Also if you have watched the deleted scenes it does make more sense because it shows more of a mutual thing happening and the sexual tension BUT the fact is they are DELETED scenes so they have no bearing and thus Dee's behavior seems very strange.

Also during all that time she has still been making a fuss with Billy. we had the big build-up of that relationship as well as her running over to him at teh gym door and the moment in the infirmary. Is her character that wishy washy when it comes to men??? That she would sculk around in hallways and listen at doors??? It just made me think ick all the way around about what they had this character doing

[keshou]

That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.

But The fact that there really hasn't been a whole lot of build-up for this *Ship* with the exception of that very minute moment in the gym its hard to see this type of behavior from her.

Also if you have watched the deleted scenes it does make more sense because it shows more of a mutual thing happening and the sexual tension BUT the fact is they are DELETED scenes so they have no bearing and thus Dee's behavior seems very strange.

Also during all that time she has still been making a fuss with Billy. we had the big build-up of that relationship as well as her running over to him at teh gym door and the moment in the infirmary. Is her character that wishy washy when it comes to men??? That she would sculk around in hallways and listen at doors??? It just made me think ick all the way around about what they had this character doing

That's how I felt. It just seemed weird. Dee has been very level-headed and forthright and seems like an honest person. It just seemed out of character.

Even if there are deleted scenes with sexual tension galore it seemed very strange. Sure hope Dee isn't being used as a plot device just to throw a monkeywrench into the whole Lee/Kara thing. That always backfires (see SG-1 S7-S8).

But really it's a minor nitpick in an otherwise splendid two-parter.

Hmmmm.....but if Dee's a Cylon - and at one time I was convinced she was, after conveniently surviving that attack - then this whole scene might make total sense.

Of course I've been convinced that EVERYONE's a Cylon at one time or another. Except Roslin. And Starbuck.

[LoneStar1836]

That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.
{snip}
Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.

I agree. That was jarring. Here I am focusing on what Lee's saying and then they cut away to her listening in.

I have a pretty good idea of what they are trying to do, but not in this way. I wouldn't mind so much the edging toward a Lee/Dee ship by the writers, but I didn't care for that scene.

One thing I did wonder about though was did Dee hear Lee over the radio when he was "telling" Kara that he was sorry?