Pegasus (210)

[SG-1ssm]

if i were Adama. as soon as Cain started being an ass, i would have gotten all my crew back on board, and order the entire fleet to do a FTL jump, then i would calculate a new one and jump again, and forget i ever saw the pegasus... then if anyone asked why i did it, i would say that the pegasus was under the controll of cylons

That would be my reaction too, except I would have waited a little longer, until about where the episode left off. Then I would do exactly that and leave a couple off small supprises. Not enough to hunt the ship, just enough to say, Cein you (beep).

[Amakusa]

I agree, this episode... no, this season is way better than the first now that the Sex Sells schtick is taking a back seat.

When the scene with Adama and Cally came up in the hall, I knew that was the point where Adama was going to snap and bring his family back together, or die trying. Very consistent with the conclusion of the Kobol story.

Admiral Cain reminds me a bit of Admiral Tolwyn from the Wing Commander computer game series. He was a major hard-ass to your character, but always had the good of humanity in his heart. Until the fourth game, that is, when the war was finally over, and he started inventing a new war to maintain power for the sake of protecting humanity (by attacking his own people with genetically-engineered superfreaks). This strong desire to survive was so maddening it reached a boiling point where humanity's survival was being determined by someone who lost their humanity in the process.

[SG-1ssm]

Great episode, pissesd we will have to wait for so long for part 2! My only question is doesn't the President have any power over the Admiral?

Offically and techically yes, but really she doesn't have that much power. She could give those two guy (sorry I can't remember their names) a Presidental pardon, but I doubt Cein would honor it.

[Excali5033]

By the GODS Moore and Eick know what buttons to push. Four-month cliffhangers are the devil.

I completely agree with DHD, Pegasus needs a dose of Cylon virus. Tyrol and Helo are more awesome than ever in my book, and Tyrol's already one of my faves (guess I kind of relate to him, heh).

Argh...January...

[osufanboy]

Can the President give an order to an officer? Doesn't the order have to go through the proper chain of command?

I'm pretty sure that, in the US, the President cannot give a command to anyone below the Joint Chiefs. Of course, I don't know if the Colonial Fleet operates the same way, and there are obviously no Joint Chiefs, but at least what I know from the West Wing is that the President gives an order to the Joint Chiefs, and the Joint Chiefs begin the process of carrying out that order.

Of course, I could be wrong.

The US President is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. He can give a command to anyone in the military. As for the show...


One thing nobody's mentioned- has anyone noticed that Pegasus is closer in design to the original series (Galactica and Pegasus)? Except for a few differences it's almost a spitting image of the original. And just a couple episodes ago they played the original theme. I grew up on the original series, and while this one is so much better, it's nice to see them give tribute to the first.

[Crichton]

I was completly blown away by this episode. Going into specifics would be pointless, I was really emotionally invested in multiple aspects of the story. It was a vey powerful episode and I have mixed feelings about how to view the human race and the cylons as far as good guys and bad guys. Excellent, excellent episode.

[SG-1ssm]

Regarding the torture thing: what the crew of the Pegasus did it way over the edge. I can understand interrogating for information, but not mindless torter for "fun."

BGS does it the better way using the carret insted of the wipe.

[alaskannut]

My own ship was a post-Korean war class of carrier nearing retirement that did quite well in a wargame against a state-of-the-art Nimitz class carrier.

OT ....Forrestal, Oriskany or Midway class??

[SlytherinGal]

Something just didn't seem right with the Pegasus...I mean, how can a ship survive coming all the way to find Galactica and not have a single scratch on them from a cylon attack. I mean, IMO, the crew of Pegasus (at least a few like Cain and such) are cylons.

[FeloniousMonk]

He has more years of experience with him, he is in a seriously battle tested ship

and we know this how? Cain's an admiral and for all we know has a full decade on Adama in seniority; Adama left the fleet, remember? Cain may look young but she could and likely is the more experienced officer.

Can the President give an order to an officer? Doesn't the order have to go through the proper chain of command?

I'm pretty sure that, in the US, the President cannot give a command to anyone below the Joint Chiefs. Of course, I don't know if the Colonial Fleet operates the same way, and there are obviously no Joint Chiefs, but at least what I know from the West Wing is that the President gives an order to the Joint Chiefs, and the Joint Chiefs begin the process of carrying out that order.

Of course, I could be wrong.

For an order in the sense of sending the Marines into a hot zone or deploying a battle group to a particular region, yes the orders go through the Joint Chiefs. But if a Navy Lieutenant just happens to be in the White House and the President orders him to stand guard somewhere, the order is literally coming from the highest possible point in the chain.

[FeloniousMonk]

two things: y'all keep talking about the pegasus crew as if we've seen them all. there are probably thousands of people on that ship and at most we've seen bad attitudes from a dozen of them. just because we were shown the worst examples of the ship doesn't mean that everyone there is a douche and a half

also, the torture thing still seems fairly light. considering they see cylons as just machines i'd imagine some real torture going on. something like removal of a hand, one finger at a time. if you don't lose a body part it's not real torture!

[Freyr Vanir]

two things: y'all keep talking about the pegasus crew as if we've seen them all. there are probably thousands of people on that ship and at most we've seen bad attitudes from a dozen of them. just because we were shown the worst examples of the ship doesn't mean that everyone there is a douche and a half

also, the torture thing still seems fairly light. considering they see cylons as just machines i'd imagine some real torture going on. something like removal of a hand, one finger at a time. if you don't lose a body part it's not real torture!

It's torture, if the person/thing in question can feel pain it's torture.

Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture

Torturing for information is one of the most stupid ideas every thought of. A person in any type of pain will do anything to stop the pain, it might not happen instantly but everybody has a braking point. Given enough time you can get anybody to say/do anything you want them to do just to stop the pain, most likily giving false info.

[Vorlon-1]

I hate them all for making me wait again in anticapation of the "Hows this gonna end"

The Pegasus was awsome. Damn state of the art...great job in portraying just how old and outdated the Galactica really is. Just wow. The experience goes to Adama. Him and his XO are war vets from the first war. Handling an older ship that is half turned into a museum. Responsible for an entire fleets protection and supplies. Remember in 33 the civilians were ready to give up from lack of sleep but Galacticas crew held in there. There is loyalty ther that cannot be replaced.


I am not going to speculate on the 2nd part but feel free to give me ideas anyway

[MrManganese]

Best production I've ever seen, of anything, ever.

You can tell Cain has had serious difficulty maintaining order on her ship. She didn't shoot her second in command because she's evil and likes shooting people; she did it because she absolutely had to set an example in order to remain an effective officer. Just look at the Pegasus crew.. they're just itching for another kill, or some action in the sack. They're only human, and they didn't have an Earth to strive for, and the pressure on the Admiral must have been great (pressure, for instance, to allow "recreational" usage of the Cyclon captive). Making an example of her officer worked to an extent, and you can see the looks on the faces of the people in her CIC when she gives the order to launch Vipers against the Galactica. You know they think she's lost her mind, but they're all wondering if they'll be the next ones shot. The one officer who was chatting with Tigh looked about ready to commit mutiny (perhaps the thrilling, bloodless conclusion I'm expecting). It's obvious that Cain is doing everything in her power to keep the fleet [which is now much larger and less manageable, of course] functioning, and putting a couple of Galactica's crewmen to death makes complete sense under the circumstances. She defends her actions to Adama, saying that the fleet is in "a state of war," and thus desperate times call for desperate measures. It's a short-sighted view, but it lends a lot of credibility to her actions, but for how long can this state of war continue? Obviously, people can't handle it indefinitely without going as berzerk as the Pegasus crew, and desperate measures cannot become a way of life.

From the moment Cain steps off her shuttle and welcomes the Battlestar crew back to "the fleet," it begs the question of who is joining who. Does the Colonial fleet still exist because this woman says so? Nevermind ranks entirely - with one admiral and one commander, discussion of rank is purely academic. Why should a fleet exist in which the two highest ranks are essentially "Cain" and "Adama," wherein those two powers routinely disagree, and the "Adama" rank always and forever will defer to the "Cain" rank? The Commander has already demonstrated that he and the fleet can exist independently of a 'high command,' so if he turns the fleet over to Cain it is exclusively a choice on his part, not a matter of duty as he would make it seem.

And yet he does defer to Cain, in the good faith that she would read his logs and appreciate the difficulty and significance of the decisions he has made. For a while, I shared his faith that the two could work together, even with Adama as a subordinate. I love the old man, and I didn't want to see him take a back burner, but change is unavoidable, and the story made us confront that possibility seriously. I almost couldn't believe that Adama would turn his back on military hierarchy, but all attempts to reason with Cain failed and there was no promise anything would improve. It was that moment when Adama says to her, "That was a different time," attempting to remind her that each situation is too complex to deal with so brazenly. Cain responds almost self-righteously, "Yes, it was" as if Adama's entire command was a mistake that she is here to set straight. It's only then that Adama finally makes the decision to take a stand, and it's the most believable inner struggle I've ever seen in my life

I think it's been clear from the beginning that power in the fleet lies with the military, and whomever the military men and women choose to obey. If not from the beginning, then at least from the point of Adama closing the independent tribunal. Cain almost certainly sees that the president draws most of her power in the fleet from her strong tie to the Commander, which is a sign of the president's weakness by itself. And while Baltar can be counted on to play with fire, placing himself between two such formidable powers as Adama and Cain would be silly considering that he personally has very little leverage. In fact, he seems only to have as much leverage as he can ease out of someone with a cleverly devised speech. "Provide Dr. Baltar with whatever he needs." Gotta love the guy

How can this stuff be so brilliantly created? O_o I was horrified at the thought of having to wait a whole week to see the conclusion to this episode, but I'm aghast to now find out that I have to wait several months. Somebody tell me I'm having a nightmare...

[Carbito]

WOW!
I just finished watching it and I can say without a doubt that that is the best TV episode that I have ever seen. The wait till January is going to be torture, I will be counting the days.

This show is without a doubt the greatest thing ever!