Pegasus (210)

[MASON]

btw, while reading this thread i really wondered why that one took so long to come up after all...

Belated welcome, userfriendly, and to dispell your wonder, I think a lot of us agree on the greater points, but we avoid them in order to hash it out over a whole smorgasbord of related ideas, how else are we going to stave off our hunger for the rest of season two without flying to Vancouver and stalking the film shoots or hacking into Zoic's renderfarms?

Every thread needs a devil's advocate.

[userfriendly]

ya i just wondered because that argument would have probably been my first reply to the "advocate"

but nice thread, anyway

[madk99]

Point taken, however, I still stand by my previous statement, that mechanically assisted reproduction does not meet the qualifications of reproduction when addressing the definition of life. Though it remains to be seen how the Cylons clone themselves, whether it is in fact, by means of budding, or mechanically assisted, so I will not say that the Cylons qualify as living or not, until we possess more information.

Thanks for relying on part of my argument here. AQ, Until we agree on a definition this part of the argument is rather stalled.

But how can we make proper arguments here, when you point out that the Cylon DNA matches that of human DNA, and they can conceive with humans, but not between themselves?

I think the problem here is that the writers were thinking like writers instead of biologists. And thank the LOK!! (Have you read biology academic journals?? ) I agree that the genetic difference question here is important. However, we can't make any assumptions. Although genetic polymorphisms have never been mentioned as a mode of cylon testing (and we assume that DNA is the first thing they would check), I could construct an argument where Cylons gain function, strength, etc. from genetic differences but that those differences are unknowable at the DNA level due to the complexity of the epigenetics, cellular attributes and the organism as a whole. I think RDM & Co have made it clear that the Cylons are quite adept at bio-engineering. How they attained the knowledge may be an important point.
It certainly appears to be the case that Cylons cannot interbreed. However, if they can mix with humans we should be calling them the same species.
There are cases in biology where one particular organism cannot bear a viable offspring with a certain other member of the same species. Whereas each individual is viable and within the variability of the species, the matching genetic elements are always doomed to miscarry. These pairs are not too terribly common but were not too sure because this is not an very researched topic.

The silica pathways are not transmitted genetically, they are mechanically added. The Cylon clones are dead without their silica implants, and it's only the non-synthetic attributes passed on through a Cylon-Human coupling, that makes hybrid offspring possible. The silica pathways would then have to be grafted into the hybrid youngling.

Don't get too hung up on the oft quoted 'silica pathways'. I still take the position that Adama's phrasology here was that of a layman and not intended to be taken literally. Since Adama's realization that Leoben was a Hu-lon, was the first such knowledge of human toasters, his off-hand comment about silica pathways I think refers more to the fact that he expects all toasters (even the model 101's ) to have a chip in their head.

BTW, what is better. Hu-lons, Hum-sters, or Toast-mans??

[MASON]

BTW, what is better. Hu-lons, Hum-sters, or Toast-mans??

TOAST-MANS!!! haahahahahahahahaahahaah! That's great!

Don't get too hung up on the oft quoted 'silica pathways'. I still take the position that Adama's phrasology here was that of a layman and not intended to be taken literally. Since Adama's realization that Leoben was a Hu-lon, was the first such knowledge of human toasters, his off-hand comment about silica pathways I think refers more to the fact that he expects all toasters (even the model 101's ) to have a chip in their head.

In the miniseries, I didn't take the silica pathways too seriously, as Adama just hypothesized them to Leoben as his first guess. However, I think they've popped up a few more times in seasons one and two.

But, you raise a very interesting idea, and one that recalls TOS. Perhaps, instead of silicon-based wetware, the Toast-mans(I love this) have developed the ability to use their brains to their full capacity, like Adama(TOS) displayed after his encounter with Iblis (though I hope they stick to wave transmissions and leave psychokinesis out of it). So the Toast-mans are 100% human, minus the synthetics, but their harnessing of the capacity of the brain lends them abilities which make them appear to have been technologically augmented.

[madk99]

TOAST-MANS!!! haahahahahahahahaahahaah! That's great!

I suppose we can refer to them as "The 12 Toast-mans of the Apocalypse"

What about the baby. Will it be 'Bambino Boom-o' or 'the toaster toddler'?

[MASON]

I suppose we can refer to them as "The 12 Toast-mans of the Apocalypse"

What about the baby. Will it be 'Bambino Boom-o' or 'the toaster toddler'?

I'll go with Toasty.

[madk99]

Oooooh, maybe we should call her a "poptart" cause she came out of a toaster!

BTW, what's the deal? Are you always up at this hour? I'm doing some research here in the library (and getting a lot done now!!) while I watch some dude drive a zamboni around the bookstacks. Ok, I think it's a riding model vaccuum cleaner. So I shall henceforce refer to it as a "vacboni".

Can you tell I'm getting a little punchy? And someone now is bound to chastise me for going off topic. (just a little off)

[MASON]

Oooooh, maybe we should call her a "poptart" cause she came out of a toaster!

New Poptarts... now with silica sand filling!!!

I can hear Adama now, <grizzled and weary after duking it out with Toasty> "You should give up now, I eat Poptarts like you for breakfast."

BTW, what's the deal? Are you always up at this hour? I'm doing some research here in the library (and getting a lot done now!!) while I watch some dude drive a zamboni around the bookstacks. Ok, I think it's a riding model vaccuum cleaner. So I shall henceforce refer to it as a "vacboni".

It's called insomnia...

[madk99]

I can hear Adama now, <grizzled and weary after duking it out with Toasty> "You should give up now, I eat Poptarts like you for breakfast."

Quite literally LOL


And then when she meets some new kid on the play ground ...
Kid: Who are you?
Toasty: I'm part of a complete breakfast.

[MASON]

And then when she meets some new kid on the play ground ...
Kid: Who are you?
Toasty: I'm part of a complete breakfast.

We could also project twenty years into the future; after Toasty has been hardened by years of schoolyard bullying and xenophobia, she vows to prove herself to the human race and joins the Colonial Military Fleet as Viper pilot Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Toasty "POPTART" Agathon.

[madk99]

We could also project twenty years into the future; after Toasty has been hardened by years of schoolyard bullying and xenophobia, she vows to prove herself to the human race and joins the Colonial Military Fleet as Viper pilot Lieutenant, Junior Grade, Toasty "POPTART" Agathon.

Instead of the Fleet, she may just join the Toast Guard!
Or if she goes into civil service and rises to become leader of the organization that delivers mail throughout the fleet she'd be Toastmaster General.

Or maybe she'll be taken down by fleet vigilantes Egon and Spengler -- that's right. They're the Toastbusters!

Or maybe she'll just sit at home and watch TV, getting fat on Post Toasties and Tostess Twinkies.

Or she could learn to play the guitar and hang out in front of coffee houses and invite people to join her toast and Jam session.

[MASON]

Or maybe she'll be taken down by fleet vigilantes Egon and Spengler -- that's right. They're the Toastbusters!

My academic hero, has to be, without a shadow of a doubt, Doctor Peter Venkman, there was never a man of greater science.

I'm sure he'd have some words of advice for the Cylons, in particular, the Leoben Conoy model, "Remember, Leo, whatever you do, don't cross the streams. <singing> And be good, for goodness sakes."

[madk99]

I'm sure he'd have some words of advice for the Cylons, in particular, the Leoben Conoy model, "Remember, Leo, whatever you do, don't cross the streams. <singing> And be good, for goodness sakes."

Yes. It's true. This Cylon has no <naughtyness deleted>!

Although I assume that they all would be "fully functional"

[MASON]

Yes. It's true. This Cylon has no <naughtyness deleted>!

Although I assume that they all would be "fully functional"

Although, perhaps it's only the female Toast-mans that are fully functional, explaining why the Cylons can't procreate.

[h22chen]

lol

but I must say that Admiral Cain is hot! (even though she is a b****)