Final Cut (208)

[Uber]

After watching Final Cut and seeing the sixth model, I'm wondering something...but I don't have the miniseries on DVD (yet) and can't readily check this...

Who sent the message to Adama about how many human form cylon models there are?

The reason I'm asking is that...what if it was sent by a cylon to Adama (who may or may not himself be a cylon) to throw the survivors off? So that if they figure out all "12" and let their guard down...but what if there are really 15 or 20?

I'm a big fan of the series...but not quite an expert like I am with Stargate...so if someone who considers themself to be an expert could respond, that would be great.

[Bl4de]

I really loved this episode, it was all that I expected it to be (though it would have been nice to see more characters interviewed such as Tigh's wife because we all know she's a cylon ). A lot of shows have done this type of episode in the past, except usually not this well. It's a great premise, even if it's not something new, what they did with it was fresh and unique, they could have just had reporters bug Adama for awhile until he lets them on, but no Adama and Roslin had their entire plan picked out from the start and had everything controlled the way they wanted it.

Filler or not, this show is not about 24/7 people shooting other people, it's about humanity's struggle to accomplish a seemingly impossible task, that does not mean people always have to be dying or flying a viper. If you notice, they never once showed a viper in action except when Kat was docking (or trying to).

They wanted to pull the focus away from the action and focus on the people, the heart of the fleet, the people and their every day struggles. It fits well and was a reminder, because up to this point we haven't had many dramatic and tearful moments compared to the miniseries and first season. It was to me a reminder of what the show is really about, it's labeled sci-fi/drama in my books, not action, the original BSG REALLY lacked this aspect (they made up for it with a robotic dog and an annoying kid), and the new series is doing it right every step of the way.

I'm glad it wasn't as suspenseful, action packed, etc. nor was it a "filler", it had every intentions the other episodes had, it was a different aspect of looking at things and still provided the same deep meaningful impact that the other episodes usually deliver through action and tragedy. It was in all respects, to me, another near perfect episode of this near perfect season of a near perfect show.

Oh and fyi.. each episode usually has a different writer, I looked at the writer for this episode and it was different than the previous couple, so that's probably why we're seeing this type of episode and not the usual.

I don't think the person that sent Adama the message was lying.. there's no real reason to. The cylons have faceted themselves into the fleet so hard and they can manipulate so easily there's no reason for them to hide anything.

[larocque6689]

Here's excerpts from the latest podcast.

--

This episode is the first of a few standalone episodes that we're doing here in season two. This is the first episode after "Home, Part 2", where we wrapped up many different plotlines. Instead of launching into a brand new giant arc of longterm storytelling, we decided to tell some standalone episodes, some things that weren't so buried in mythos and do a different flavor of episodes now that we are into this part of the season. By and large, this is exactly the kind of episode that new audience members should feel comfortable watching the show for the first time.

--

This is of course Lucy Lawless' first episode for us. Lucy was David Eick's idea. David had worked with Lucy on Xena: Warrior Princess, which of course is what she's most famously known for, back when he was working for Renaissance. We had talked about having her on the show before this [in the first season], and it didn't work out for whatever reason. As this role came up, David mentioned her for it, and it seemed like the right fit. And he checked with her and she was into it and decided to do it... The motto for this character was a Christina Amanpour type character. By that we meant, a very no nonsense going after the story type of reporter, not a muckraker, not a tabloid reporter, not somebody out for their own glory, but somebody who has a story and is going to bite into it, is going to keep it going no matter what.


--

The genesis of this story began when we were talking in the first couple of episodes... Someone developed this story about doing an episode where we would cut down into that room where all the press was gathered and trapped [after "Resistance"] and follow one reporter as he or she figured out how to get a story, and tell the whole episode from that point of view. The reason we opted not to do that, was that we needed those early episodes to tell a great deal of other stories. We had the story of Kobol, we had the story of Caprica, we had important story to deal with Laura etc. on Galactica, and it just became to cumbersome to try to use that device and make it work. But, in any case, the idea of a reporter being on the ship, or doing an episode from the reporter's point of view was something that we never let go of. Eventually we decided, "Let's do the documentary episode, where we really shoot a documentary on the ship." Actually, for this episode, Robert Young, who directed this episode and also directed last year's episode, "Six Degrees of Separation" is a noted documentarian. He has done many feature films and made acutal documentaries in his day. It felt like a natural fit to have Robert do this. I felt that it was important to give the director, writer and actors as much space to improvise, and to really embroider on the characters and on the life on Galactica.

--

It's worth mentioning this little device we're using. Every time we go to the documentary camera, you'll note that we clip the corners off, which is a nod towards the aesthetic that we've established in this world, that they tend to clip corners off things. That happens to be an aesthetic style that they like in this universe. They like books with the corners cut off, they like picture frames with the corners cut off. The idea of clipping the corners on the documentary is actually one of the very last things that we did. I kept struggling to try and make the documentary footage stand out and feel different from the objective camera... the challenge was how to distinguish the look between the two. I was looking at it in the editing bay and it occurred to me. I said to the editor, "What if we clip the corners off the documentary footage." It was such a very small tweak but it really works, it really sets those images apart instantly and visually.

--

[The cameraman] is a real cameraman... It was much, much better to have an actual cameraman working the camera within the scene than relying on an actor who is essentially trying to act like a camerman, if you had any hope of using the footage... [However] we were constantly having to juggle this documentary footage in such a way that we weren't picking up members of the actual film crew which were filming the scene.

--

In a couple of drafts, Tigh and Ellen were both going [to Cloud Nine], and at some point we decided to keep Ellen aboard Galactica.


--

There were episodes last season where we had strike teams in the Raptors, and we had ground crew in the Raptors, and we simply didn't have the money to outfit all of them in a flight suit. Plus, they all look kind of goofy when you put that many flight suits together in a cockpit. We kind of limit the flight suits to the necessary personnel, the pilot and the ECO. And that allowed us to make this leap, that Tigh would not be wearing a flight suit.

--

You might have noticed this is the first time that Gaeta got a first name. His first name is now Felix. I don't know why that makes me laugh, but it did. I was looking up ancient names on the Internet when it came time to do this episode, because I never named Gaeta or Dualla, even in the show bible. And there it was, Felix. That's him, it's Felix Gaeta... Also, Dualla's first name is Anastasia, which I thought was quite lovely. Kandyse is a quite lovely lady who deserved a pretty first name.

--

A lot of the dialogue here between the LSO and the pilot was contributed I believe by David [Weddle] and Bradley [Thompson], who specialize in that verisimilitude in our military jargon, in planning with some consultation with our military consultant.

--

You might have noticed that several of the little subtitles that show people's names and ranks and what have you in the show have a couple of acronyms after them. For those of you who obsess upon these sorts of things, and you know who you are: CF is Colonial Fleet, CFR is Colonial Fleet Reserve, CMC is Colonial Marine Corps, and then CMCR is Colonial Marine Corps Reserve. So you can write that down and add that to your book of tricks.

--

This whole last bit of narration was something that I wrote in post as we were going through the footage. I just wanted to give the thesis of the show. These are deeply flawed people and they're human. And maybe that's saying the same thing. There's a nobility to these people, there's a heroism to these people who are flawed and screwed up and dysfunctional and deeply human. And they get up every day and they go out and they do their jobs and they hold off the Cylons, and they protect the fleet. And they keep doing it and they don't quit. Despite everything that you've seen in the series and despite all their flaws, and all their infighting and all their deeply human, sometimes deeply bad choices in their lives, that they are the protectors. They are the guardians of the fleet. They take that job very seriously and they do it every day. And they never try to shirk it. That is ultimately the thing that sets them apart, it makes them special.

--

Oh, this is great, the use of the original Battlestar Galactica theme. He starts whistling it, the music comes in, and the crowd goes wild. And some will curse us for using it, "How sacreligious!" But I kind of like it. Something very sweet about it.

--

I think this is my favorite ending so far. This is such a great reveal. When I'm watching the show, and I'm sitting and watching it for the umpteenth time, I forget about the end. I forget that she's a Cylon. It's so great. It's like you really are sucked into the show, you're really sucked into the story, and watching the images. And no matter how many times I've seen the show, I always get up this moment and forget that D'anna is a Cylon. It's such a great, unexpected twist. it just lays in there so nicely and so well. It's like you're watching this great, uplifting, and then there's one surprise coming... There's something great about not even suggesting to the audience that there's going to be a surprise. That you've seen the show and you feel very safe and comfortable with everything you've just watched, and then the zinger in the last minute.

[RobertC]

I just noticed something very interesting in this episode that leads me to believe that Dee is a Cylon. When Diana (the reporter) supposdly transmits the video to the Cylon Raiders she is busy in the CIC filming the situation, not in a position to transmit anything, however Dee is. Then notice at the end of that scene Diana goes up to Dee and at the end mutters "Thank you", who else could have been in a better position to transmit the video to the raiders except Dee. At first I assumed the "Thank you" was for saying something good for the camers but now I think there was much more behind it!

I just watched the episode. There is also an earlier scene with Baltar in foreground which Dee and the reporter are talking in very familiar terms, like they have known each other for awhile.

After seemingly taking no active part in the operation, Dee looking stressed said "No maam, it just gets harder" after which the reporter said "thank-you" they flashed to Dee's face which looked guilty/torn up inside. Not the normal reaction you would expect in the situation say either relief at the raiders been destroyed or annoyance at having to answer the reporters question. Definitely like she had just done something bad.

- Robert

[delenntoo]

I just watched the episode. There is also an earlier scene with Baltar in foreground which Dee and the reporter are talking in very familiar terms, like they have known each other for awhile.

After seemingly taking no active part in the operation, Dee looking stressed said "No maam, it just gets harder" after which the reporter said "thank-you" they flashed to Dee's face which looked guilty/torn up inside. Not the normal reaction you would expect in the situation say either relief at the raiders been destroyed or annoyance at having to answer the reporters question. Definitely like she had just done something bad.

- Robert

Yup, I noticed that too - I looked at the transcript on the Galactica Station website to see if I was remembering correctly about that earlier scene ... here is what it says:

On Galactica in a hallway

(Dualla is modifying some kind of device for Biers. Looks like a tape or memory card)

Biers: Think it'll give it more memory?

Dualla: Yeah, it seems pretty simple. Maybe just a basic adjustment. It's a pretty good piece.

Biers: Yeah, it's kind of old...

Then the scene in CIC near the end kinda takes on a new meaning, especially if Dee *is* a cylon:

Biers: Does this ever get any easier?

Dualla: No, Ma'am. It gets harder.

Biers: Thank you.

I think that being a cylon in the CIC and watching your own ships get destroyed would get harder every time, don't you? I also think that she was using that device from the earlier scene to transmit the footage Biers shot to the cylons in the last scene.

[Astaire310]

New Here. Thanks to you all for your insightful posts. I enjoy the show even more because of them.

Having read all the comments about Dualla possibly being a Cylon in this thread, I was wondering what you were all thinking about Baltar. He is looking just as guilty as Dualla to me. Here is why...

If you remember back to the scene (I am sorry I don't know episode names yet) in which Baltar is in the prison cell with GBoomer and Chief, Baltar believes that if he can panic GBoomer enough, she will be able to access her Cylon chip and reveal secret Cylon information to him. Why does he think that? Perhaps he knows (sub)consciously this will work because...he is a Cylon.

Baltar has shown in previous episodes that under extreme stress, he has knowledge of things he should not know (ie He knows things that a Cylon would know but not a human.) The writing in the show is too good for these to be coincidences, I think they are hints. Here are two examples: 1) Under pressure he correctly identified Doral as a Cylon in the mini-series. 2) In the Episode in which Galactica had to attack the Cylon refinery, Baltar managed to guess the exact piece of equipment that Apollo needed to blow up just as he began to panic.

Baltar also has the overactive sex drive and higher than expected intelligence of a Cylon.

He has an intricate relationship with Number Six, but there is no detectable chip in his head. Could Invisible Six be part of his Cylon programming which would not be detectable in a brain scan? She has given him specific information about people/things/events in several episodes. Information that does not seem like it could come purely from a psychotic human mind.

Baltar is so special to the Cylons that they go out of their way again and again to save him. First, Number Six sacrifices herself when Caprica explodes, second they capture and eliminate the Olympic Carrier to save his reputation, third, they set him up for accusation so that he can be publicly cleared and forever be above reproach. Why would they do that to an ordinary human? Why not just let him die on Caprica? How did they identify him as special?
Starbuck is special to the Cylons because she plays the role of the Interrogator/Victim in the Book of Pythia. If Baltar was also special because of a repeated historical/religious role. Wouldn't the President or Elosha have identified him by now and locked him up? Hmm...I would love to see a copy of the Book of Pythia...Even better, I would love to see Baltar test himself in his Cylon Detector and see the look on his face with the results. I don't think that he is aware that he is a Cylon, but perhaps that awareness is growing.

I was wondering if anyone suspected Baltar of being a special Cylon, not one of the twelve models, but perhaps a single copy of the human scientist who created the Cylons. It would explain why his physical body is more valuable than those of the other Cylons and why he would be the one chosen to guard the children of the Cylons. He would be continuing the role of the original Cylon father.

Probably really off-base, but curious as to what you all think. Thanks!

[coolove]

Great episode. Gaeta lets it all hang out? That was bizarre.

Didn't you know... he's a cyclon. LOL.

[Kazper]

• Cylons "tracking at a distance" does not mean they have the ability to transmit large volumes of data from a distance. Hence the need for the relays from the Raiders.

Not proved. As I understood it the raiders was merely a distraction to allow the transmission of the data to go unnoticed by the fleet. They were not relays in the sense of the word you think of - but they allowed the relaying of the data to the other cylons through distraction.

[Bl4de]

I don't really think she's a cylon, I mean the scene where she's helping D'anna with the memory thing she's just trying to be friendly since she was one of the first people she met aboard the galactica, not only that but Dee has always been helpful to new people aboard the ship (Billy?), she was probably just trying to help her fit more onto 1 tape. And in CIC she said "thank you" for doing the report, since she realizes after all the action how hard it is on everyone there who has to deal with those things daily. It gets harder to do it because it simply does... I mean think about Gaeta's job he has to deal with so much, the more and more you do it the harder it gets, there doesn't have to be a second meaning behind it. Dee looked troubled because those raiders could have killed someone or a lot of people, it wears down on them having to fight so much.

It wouldn't have had the same impact if Dee had given a lighthearted response when asked if it gets easier, "it gets harder" seems like an emotional fit to a troublesome time.

[ForCryinOutLoud]

I was wondering if anyone suspected Baltar of being a special Cylon, not one of the twelve models, but perhaps a single copy of the human scientist who created the Cylons. It would explain why his physical body is more valuable than those of the other Cylons and why he would be the one chosen to guard the children of the Cylons. He would be continuing the role of the original Cylon father.

Probably really off-base, but curious as to what you all think. Thanks!

that's exactly what my husband and I think. I also think that "the one true God" is actually the human Baltar, and this Baltar is a copy interacting with the humans. I don't think he knows it, but there have been many things that point to his being a Cylon - like Six, who could be his Cylon programming speaking to him, like the fact that he didn't die on Caprica in a nuclear explosion, like Six telling him things he should otherwise not know even though she doesn't exist as a chip...he's so a Cylon.

[SGalisa]

Originally posted by ForCryinOutLoud:
I also think that "the one true God" is actually the human Baltar...

hmmm, *interesting* theory or concept.

Originally posted by SGalisa, see post #36:
liked the musical tribute to the original BSG theme from the original series. ...

Originally posted by Liebestraume:
Where? Is it during the "editorial bit" towards the end of the documentary, where we saw a guy mopping the floor and then the pilots(?) marching pass him?

I'm sorry, I thought that was obvious - especially since it was mentioned before me in this topic...

Originally posted by Vyse:
Glad to finally hear the original Galactica theme music again!

and noted here-

Originally posted by chyron, see post #26:
I wasn't too hip on the episode until the introduction of the original BSG theme at the end right before the FINAL scene.

and again, my own reinforcement of both previous comments-

Originally posted by SGalisa, see post #36:
...If nothing else - that musical theme was the hallmark stamp of the entire BSG series. And the way it got included at the end, was very nice to hear against the visual montage of how resilient and steadfast the few who are left, are making it thru their difficult life, moment by moment.

Wherever it started in the news montage -with the guy on mop duty or a few frames before, I heard the original music along with the guy whistling to it. The news editorial piecing the montage of various events together made a nice effect and was nicely written.

I am a bit surprised tho, that it would be coming from a cylon... Why are the cylons letting some humans live, and yet go on a killing spree against them at other times? Are they just toying with the humans, like they are a giant lab experiment? If yes, then for *what* reason...?

Originally posted by Liebestraume:
I like what BSG is doing for their secondary characters...

I too, have enjoyed the 2ndary characters more than the primary ones. Maybe it's just a refocusing adjustment to viewing something different and new, rather than go into comparison studies of the original primary characters in contrast to the revamped ones.

[Liebestraume]

... Maybe it's just a refocusing adjustment to viewing something different and new, rather than go into comparison studies of the original primary characters in contrast to the revamped ones.

Sounds like you are a fan of both series. Such rich textures for you to draw the comparison from. I, on the other hand, am among those who had never seen BSG till the "re-imagined" version became a series on SciFi . Thanks for the detailed explanation of the music! I think I'll go back to watch that part again.

[Bl4de]

I just rewatched Final Cut and I really don't think the raiders had anything to do with the transmission of final film.

For the simple fact that, the cylons on Caprica were watching the entire film that was edited with footage from after the cylon attack. They were watching the completed product. How is it possible that they're watching the full thing when the raiders attacked way before? They must have transmitted something else. She only mentioned it after #6 asked if the baby was ok.

For the record the music at the end of the show nearly brought tears to my eyes lol. I love the original theme song, just wish I knew what orchestra redid it for the new series. I thought it was a perfect touch to the end of the episode and completed the dramatic effect they were going for. A+ work on this episode!

[Sauce]

Not one of my favorite eps, but still enjoyable. The most interesting part was mentioned previously. The "Six" on Caprica has no knowledge of what Baltar's "Six" knows. If she did she would have known that "Sharon" and her baby were still alive. I find this confusing based on previous events ei: No chip in his head (maybe a biological device disguised as human tissue?), Six on Galactica, the outing of Doral, the recycling facility, the cylon detector etc. His Six even said that Lawless would be a big help to them. Did she know Lawless was a Cylon? If she did how? Wouldn't Lawless have also known that Baltar had a "Six" copy inside?

Random thought, anybody think that based on the religious undertones of the show Baltar might be the Son of God? The Cylons do believe in a monotheistic God unlike the Colonials. Although I think maybe he fits the Joseph role a bit better.

[grover]

Lotsa interesting theories floating around.

I've pondered the Baltar as God theory myself, but I'd like a little more foundation laid before Moore springs that one on us.

As for Dee, I think people are reading WAY too much into her exchanges with D'Anna. Why would a Cylon Dee know how to modify a disk while Clyon D'Anna wouldn't? Makes no sense. Although I have a hunch that those exposed oxygen scrubbers are going to suffer a malfunction soon...

I didn't see anything suspicious about the final Dee/D'Anna scene in the CIC after the raid. The fact that Dee wasn't instantly relieved/elated doesn't make her a Cylon. In fact, I think it makes her more human. It can get harder to decompress and feel relief the more someone is exposed to a high stress situation. Her reaction post-contact could just mean she's more likely to follow a Kat-like path to medicinal relief.

And D'Anna's "Thank You" was more likely in response to Dee sharing this frightening moment with her rather than thanking her for sending off an illict message.

Besides, I still think Billy is the Cylon and he's using Dee.