Deadlock (416)

[wontgetfooledagain]

A lot of the discussion goes back to my argument that a series is always better off when they have a good idea as to where they're going in the story line. Maybe not as specific as B5, but a pretty darn idea as to what they'd like to happen to whom.

Think about what would have happened if RDM had known the Ellen/Cavil backstory. Think about what it would have been like to see as the very final scene of Exodus, Ellen's resurrection complete with the 'Everything's in place honey, we'll be resurrected' and 'I'd do it all again' sequence as she's downloading only to 'pop' there she is in the tank screaming and the credits rolls. Talk about a mind-frak. Gatworld.net would crash with all of the postings about the what-if. And then from Exodus to today, our slowly learning all of the gorey details of the Final Five and the human skin jobs and Cavil's deceit.

The could have even done a shot where Ellen is obviously interfacing with the Basestar, but for what purpose we don't know. Maybe to plant the seeds of revolt against Cavil, maybe something else.

Meh, I like the fact that we don't find out about Ellen and Cavil and all that until nearly the end. One should not reveal all their cards too early.

[Corona]

Little Gaius?

Hmmm! I wonder if there's any relation?

[HAL2100]

Meh, I like the fact that we don't find out about Ellen and Cavil and all that until nearly the end. One should not reveal all their cards too early.

Here's the thing, Ellen was killed two seasons ago (about). It isn't about showing all the cards at once. If they had shown Ellen's resurrection two seasons ago, then it raises all sorts of questions and what not that could be revealed over the subsequent seasons. For example, think about all of the speculation if all we saw was the scene up to the point where she's screaming in the tank. Then a few episodes later, we see the second half of it where she asks the Centurion for help up with no one around and then Cavil comes in, she calls him John he replies that he doesn't like that name and then it cuts away and we don't see any more of the interchange. Think about the suspense and the speculation! Then over time the writer's craft the interchange between those two but do it in such a way that we see Cavil's "I'm a frakin' machine' speach" which Ellen respons to but not specifically stating that she created them until much, much later. She could make all sorts of statements such as 'John you were created with free will, the human cylons were created to bring an end to the Human-Cylon conflict." She could say the same things that we saw in the episode but in a way that doesn't share that she was behind it all. And then *WHAM!* after several interchanges over several episodes or two years, the moment when she holds out her arms to embrace him and says "I love you because I created you." CUT TO BLACK and the mid-season break. Think about the Mind Frak!

Or they go with a thing where they show the final scene and show one screen of credits (making you think that's all) and then cut to commerical. After the commericals, they show her with Cavill and the 'I love you' bit and then cut to black and finish the credits.

[Night Marshal]

I think your right on HAL. It seems BSG has often gotten off track following often uninteresting or unrewarding stories, Baltar trail and Applo being suicidal come to mind. When the core of the and what drove the first season at least for me was the Cylons and the mythos behind the show. On some level I think its important enjoy the show for what it is. A snow ball that keeps getting bigger and more unwieldy as it grows and with no real plan for what to do with it when it gets there by its creators. It might work out in the end but Like the Iraq war its not because it was overly thought out before it started.

[HAL2100]

I think your right on HAL. It seems BSG has often gotten off track following often uninteresting or unrewarding stories, Baltar trail and Applo being suicidal come to mind. When the core of the and what drove the first season at least for me was the Cylons and the mythos behind the show. On some level I think its important enjoy the show for what it is. A snow ball that keeps getting bigger and more unwieldy as it grows and with no real plan for what to do with it when it gets there by its creators. It might work out in the end but Like the Iraq war its not because it was overly thought out before it started.

See I had completely forgotten about Apollo being suicidal. In the real world, there's typically a long chain of events leading up to a suicide or attempt and its a long road afterward. What if the clues to Apollo being depressed and on the road to suicide had been planted over the course of several seasons where you see the clues, but don't recognize them as such until it nearly comes to fruition in his stuck in space?

As to Baltar, I must admit that I like how he seems to be moving from totally self-centered to not-nearly always self-centered (wanting to return during the mutiny), small move but still. Of course, if they had planned that from day one his story would have been completely different.

[Briangate78]

Little Gaius?

Hmmm! I wonder if there's any relation?

Nah, it's not like Gaius has sleeped around or anything with countless woman.

[Espeon1962]

I am going to weigh in on a few things discussed by you all:

I found the episode to be a little choppy; it almost appeared to me to be one of those eps the writers spun out quickly as they had other deadlines to meet. Just the feel of the pacing in the episode was off to me.

If Ellen had shown up I, as Admiral, or President and VP, would sequester myself in a room with her and not let her out until everything was known about the final five - human nature is so irresistibly curious that it is inconceivable to me that they would just let her off without asking her for a complete explanation on everything.

I also found the change of heart by Galen to be utterly unbelievable, and the only reasoning I can conceive behind it is so he has some heartache in the future over Sharon. Still to me it was poorly set up. He accepted the post of Chief again and there has always been a bond between he and the Admiral, irrespective of events, so this turnabout just flopped.

I noticed when Bill and the President were in the memorial hall watching the 6 place the picture, a group of pilots walked behind them, of which two were human and two were cylon, but they were walking as a group and there was no animosity (they were talking to each other as friends in a group do when on a stroll). Also it was revealed that Cylons were flying the CAP with humans due to the pilot shortage (some pilots in the brig I guess - we have no further info on the disposition of Sebastian Spence and others). So this seems to be indicative that mixing is already occurring, with many of the 6's and 8's (did not see many Lebs around) are already functioning in the fleet - thus the whole thing about the cylons voting to leave seemed to be a not so believable contrast.

Ellen, Ellen. My take at the end when she addressed Caprica about how Saul lover her and the baby was proof and its living was proof of the love was all a setup. I think Ellen knew that the baby would not survive, and this was a setup for her to drive a wedge between Saul and Caprica in the future.

While I do understand that she and Saul have a relationship going back immensely in the past, but they have been apart for 18 months, and furthermore, Saul does not really remember any of it, and his relationship started with Caprica before he ever had any memories, however fleeting, come back. She knows this, and even acknowledges the time apart, so the subsequent events and her sudden turnabout from rational individual last episode to scheming vindictive women this episode did not ring very true for me.


Why also was Caprica wandering around like a poor forlorn waif in Dogsville at the beginning? That was just stupid. Sorry, but she did not need the food, had no need to be in that area, and dressed like a bag lady, really? That was a poor excuse for a plot setup.

I have more to post, but will get his up first, have some dinner and come back for more!

[Gatz]

Magnets people, magnets.

[Detox]

Yeah, it seems like the consensus is that TPTB dropped the ball big time on it. It just didn't vibe at all with the quality of all the previous episodes. And knowing full well that this season was their last going in, having such a poor filler episode is simply inexcusable.

Did the person who wrote this episode not see the script or even the story for the last episode?

[the fifth man]

Honestly, it doesn't even matter to me much. It was still a really good episode IMO.

[the fifth man]

That is a very nice weapon.

[OfF3nSiV3]

Hooray for the Bear McCreary cameo! Bear rocks!

where?!

[Berg417448]

where?!

From Bear's blog:
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-...8bearcameo.jpg

[HAL2100]

Nah, it's not like Gaius has sleeped around or anything with countless woman.

How do we know that in the end its just Gaius with all of the Six's burdened with the task of fathering children by each and everyone of them?

[Espeon1962]

I also noticed (which someone else picked up earlier in the thread but sorry, too far back to find to quote) that they did not have a unique opening credit like they did last episode. I really liked that and hope they do it again.

For all the people postulating on the Daniel - Starbuck connection. I noted this on the EW boards last week - when Ellen was describing the fate of the Daniels she specifically stated that all the "Daniel copies" were contaminated. But not by inference, the original. I am also wondering - there is an original Cavil, plus Ellen's inference of an original Daniel. So where are the first of each other model? I don't know whether they are in fact important but it has been inferred that there is one original of each model, and then copies are generated from the original. Are the first one of each model as self aware as Cavil? It would be an interesting plot twist with many possible facets if they are although maybe a little late in the story arc to make much of.

Spoiler:

It seems like the preview for next week finally at least starts to address the Starbuck issue, albeit with some of the usual dramatic angst that normally just bores the hell out of me! It also appeared the Galactica is under attack at the end of the episode. Did anyone make out anything else in the preview?