The Oath (413)

[Starsaber]

The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

Too quick. I hope Starbuck cuts his other leg off with a rusty knife then Adama beats him to death with it.

Honestly, I think this cliffhanger is the best they've ever done (even better than finding Earth at the end of 4.0)

[Arative]

A matter of opinion, I suppose.

I think their justification is absolutely correct. The Roslin/Adama leadership has been nothing shy of dictatorial, and completely shameless about it. As much as I love the Eddie Olmos' and Mary McDonnell's performances (they really does a wonderful job), their characters have grown beyond despicable. They deserve what they get, at this point.


It's a shame their comeuppance seems to have come from a malcontent like Gaeta. Zarek I can at least somewhat understand, and it seems almost like he's in over his head; but Gaeta's earned a bullet between the eyes with the actions of this revolt. I hope it's either Starbuck or Baltar that gives it to him.

I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

[the fifth man]

Too quick. I hope Starbuck cuts his other leg off with a rusty knife then Adama beats him to death with it.

Honestly, I think this cliffhanger is the best they've ever done (even better than finding Earth at the end of 4.0)

If not better than them finding Earth, it was just about as good.

[rarocks24]

I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

We lost a battlestar, and several thousand civvies.

Yeah, Civilian leadership worked out so well.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

That looked like a flash bang or stun grenade to me. It's far more logical than them surviving a fragmentation or concussion grenade, since Adama looks unscathed in the next episode.

It'd make more sense if Tigh was the one killed by the firing squad, since we see them shoot. It's probably just deceptive editing to make it look like Adama bites the bullet(s).

In which case the spoiler ruins the impact of his death.

Not sure that I follow, why does he need to be reset? Lee is a constantly evolving character. He has never really followed one format, he constantly changes and adapts.

That evolution of his character has been toward the more noble good of the people. That was the whole point of Zarek putting the idea in his head that he may have to go against his father. It's kinda like a final step. If he goes back to being loyal to the rest of the "main characters" it's a reset.

Keep in mind that Zarek has been one of the main catalysts of that evolution of Apollo's character since the character was first introduced in the episode on the prison ship.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

Aaand the mistake made then was what, again? Thinking they were safe from the Cylons and they could go on their merry way?

That's almost exactly what Adama/Roslin are doing now.

[EvenstarSRV]

But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

Heh, I had the same reaction about Racetrack. She was one of my favorite secondary characters, so I was shocked and sad to see her join the mutiny.

I'd been expecting this type of civil war to happen since the end of Revelations, when the one thing that had kept so many of these people going was lost to them. But the thing that keeps me from really sympathizing with the rebels is that it seems like they're seeking vengeance for perceived wrongs at the expense of stability, when at this point stability is what they need the most for survival.

It was interesting to see how much power Gaeta has always been able to wield by controlling the comms in the CIC. And I enjoyed seeing both Starbuck and Roslin really come back to life after the event on Earth. Didn't quite understand why Adama and Tigh had to stay in the hold after the Raptor had taken off, but their stand was cool to see.

I'm wondering if it's going to take a return of Cavil and the other cylons to end this civil war, because I think both sides are too entrenched to resolve it themselves.

[Corona]

Starbuck rescues Lee but leaves at least 3 of the guards alive.

Starbuck and Lee find Adama and Tigh and she goes frakkin ballistic wanting to kill their prisoner saying they all need to die.

Just sayin.

[sp1ff75]

What a great episode. I really hate Gaeta and Zarek now. I really hate Gaeta now. It's also nice to see Starbuck up and around and shooting people again. I thought it was great to see Adama and Tigh take up arms and for Adama to actually shoot one of his insubordinate marines. Great episode and what a cliffhanger to leave off on.

[DigiFluid]

I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

We lost a battlestar, and several thousand civvies.

Yeah, Civilian leadership worked out so well.

If you're willing to abandon your principles--for any reason whatsoever--I don't think life is much worth living. That's the entire point of having principles in the first place. As this series has rightly made clear right from the get-go, life for it's own sake isn't worth living. People need a reason to go on; we need a reason to justify why we're worthy of survival at all.

If those principles get tossed out the window (airlock) whenever they become inconvenient, what's the point?

[Arative]

Aaand the mistake made then was what, again? Thinking they were safe from the Cylons and they could go on their merry way?

That's almost exactly what Adama/Roslin are doing now.

Yes, that was their mistake on New Caprica. Giving up and thinking they were safe and could rebuild.

I don't think that is what Adama and Roslin are doing now. They are doing what is in the best interest of the surviving humans by upgrading the FTL drives so the ships can go further with the remaining fuel they have left. It gives the humans a better chance of survival. Zarek is using the natural distrust of cylons to ferment the rebellion in order to gain power but time and time again, Adama and Roslin have been shown to make the right decisions.

[anotherquestion]

I don't know of any episode to date that has simultaneously provoked such polarized responses from one series of events that we all witnessed together.

From one end of the spectrum...

I'm still with Zarek and the Rebels. Nothing any of the main characters did in this ep showed me that they deserve to live (except Apollo) I mean, where did Roslin go as soon as she left Galactica? From next week's preview it looks like the Basestar.

Apollo finally started to come to his senses toward the end of the ep when he went off on Tigh. I'm hoping he'll finally shed the Lee Adama aspect of his character and fully become Apollo but based on some other scenes (Starbuck - more in a second) I'm pretty sure they're gonna either use his father's death or the will to save his father before he's killed to reset the character.

To the other....

I'm glad that they didn't resolve everything in one episode but frak waiting another week!!!!

I was half hoping that Adama would have shot that 2nd marine in the back of the head. The way he sounded in CiC was that he would grant no quarter to those traitors. I agree with Starbuck, they are the enemy and they should just shoot first, ask questions later.

But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

With this observation in between....

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about a lack of gray area (at least, a lack of gray area from my perspective). I sometimes feel writers of movies and television shows try too hard to make things gray and morally relative these days.

To me at least it seems that a gray area is, in fact, reached when weighing both extremes: the rebels aren't all good, the conventional Leaders (Adama and Roslin) had not been produced the outcome they had promised and prophesied, the Colonials are divided (as they have often been in the past) with fear magnifying their prejudices and their all-too-legitimate grievances against the Cylons for their past actions.

The ambivalence we've seen Adama exhibit (not two or three episodes ago) against Tigh (which led to a temporary breakdown) is now playing out among the colonials as a whole as well as among us, the viewing audience.

Our reaction to the various factions appears to reveal more about ourselves than about some black and white absolute moral order. I couldn't disagree more with the last quotation above.

The writers have absolutely created a gray area where moral relativism abounds. As Adama said when turning over BSG's ship's logs to Cain, "context matters", which is as succinct a description of relativism as can be made.

Whatever our immediate feelings are in response to these tumultuous events: a hardening or dissolving sense of loyalty, a sense of injury and unaddressed affronts, recriminations, and a sense of outraged righteousness--all these reactions ought to be examined in the context of each participants perspective.

I think almost everyone believes themselves to be acting rightly in the role they are currently playing (excepting perhaps the uber-cynical Baltar and Zarek, I mean you have to be judgmental about someone).

[Arative]

If you're willing to abandon your principles--for any reason whatsoever--I don't think life is much worth living. That's the entire point of having principles in the first place. As this series has rightly made clear right from the get-go, life for it's own sake isn't worth living. People need a reason to go on; we need a reason to justify why we're worthy of survival at all.

If those principles get tossed out the window (airlock) whenever they become inconvenient, what's the point?

Way back in season 1, Zarek said it best, I think in colonial day episode that the guy watering the plant was just going through the motions. That's what the quorum is doing really. Going through the motions of pretending their old life still exists.

On the run for years, in a constant state of war, the democracy that they had on the colonies just doesn't work any more. Certainly what Zarek and Gaeta is doing isn't democracy. Roslin and Adama are doing what is best for the fleet and the survival of humanity, even if people don't agree with it. Increased FTL still gives them the best chance for survival.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Yes, that was their mistake on New Caprica. Giving up and thinking they were safe and could rebuild.

I don't think that is what Adama and Roslin are doing now. They are doing what is in the best interest of the surviving humans by upgrading the FTL drives so the ships can go further with the remaining fuel they have left. It gives the humans a better chance of survival. Zarek is using the natural distrust of cylons to ferment the rebellion in order to gain power but time and time again, Adama and Roslin have been shown to make the right decisions.

Right decisions... like finding Earth?

[Arative]

Right decisions... like finding Earth?

They found it, not their fault it was nuked to hell. Their leadership would still be better than anyone else in the fleet.