My Journey through Babylon 5

[12OzMouse]

I'm a little pressed for time right now, but honestly, you can go to the Lurkers Guide without fear of having anything spoiled for you. They have a viewing order all mapped out. I can get it for you, I just will be tied up for a couple hours. If I see where you haven't found it in a little while, I'll dig it out for you. The Beginning is the only major change, I believe, in the first couple of series...

[12OzMouse]

Here's the viewing order list as presented by the Lurkers Guide.

Pilot Movies

Babylon 5: In the Beginning
The Gathering

Season One ("Signs and Portents")

Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter
Born to the Purple
Infection
The Parliament of Dreams
Mind War
The War Prayer
And The Sky Full Of Stars
Deathwalker
Believers
Survivors
By Any Means Necessary
Signs and Portents
Grail
Eyes
A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
Babylon Squared
The Quality of Mercy
TKO
Legacies
Chrysalis

Season Two ("The Coming Of Shadows")

Points of Departure
Revelations
The Geometry of Shadows
A Distant Star
The Long Dark
A Spider in the Web
A Race Through Dark Places
Soul Mates
The Coming of Shadows
GROPOS
All Alone in the Night
Acts of Sacrifice
Hunter, Prey
There All the Honor Lies
And Now For a Word
Knives
In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
Confessions and Lamentations
Divided Loyalties
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Comes the Inquisitor
The Fall of Night

Season Three ("Point of No Return")

Matters of Honor
Convictions
A Day in the Strife
Passing Through Gethsemane
Voices of Authority (this was originally meant to air before "Passing Through Gethsemane," but since the events of this episode tie into the beginning of "Dust to Dust," and aren't mentioned at all in "Gethsemane," the initial airing order is actually an improvement)
Dust to Dust
Exogenesis
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return
Severed Dreams
Ceremonies of Light and Dark
A Late Delivery From Avalon
Sic Transit Vir
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
Walkabout
War Without End, Part One
War Without End, Part Two
Grey 17 Is Missing
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
Z'ha'dum

Season Four ("No Surrender, No Retreat")

The Hour of the Wolf
Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
The Summoning
Falling Toward Apotheosis
The Long Night
Into the Fire
Epiphanies
The Illusion of Truth
Thirdspace
Atonement
Racing Mars
Lines of Communication
Conflicts of Interest
Rumors, Bargains and Lies
Moments of Transition
No Surrender, No Retreat
The Exercise of Vital Powers
The Face of the Enemy
Intersections in Real Time
Between the Darkness and the Light
Endgame
Rising Star
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars

Season Five

No Compromises
The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
The Paragon of Animals
A View from the Gallery
Learning Curve
Strange Relations
Secrets of the Soul
In the Kingdom of the Blind
A Tragedy of Telepaths
Phoenix Rising
The Ragged Edge
Day of the Dead
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Meditations on the Abyss
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
Movements of Fire and Shadow
The Fall of Centauri Prime
Wheel of Fire
Objects in Motion
Objects at Rest
River of Souls
The Legend of the Rangers
Sleeping in Light

Or, here's the link that also includes episode numbers, which didn't survive the C & P!

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...er/eplist.html

I would say that if you have the DVD of, "In the Beginning" sitting in front of you, I'd watch it. As JMS said, it fits in beautifully. But, either way, it is really not that big of a deal.

[magictrick]

Awesome thanks for the list!

I think I will hold off on watching The Beginning for now. I am fine with it being a mystery, and knowing there is an entire movie dedicated to it is even better.

I notice the viewing order is even different in Season 1. I've already watched TKO but it is listed on that list much further down. I guess because it was more of a filler episode than anything.

[magictrick]

1x18 - A Voice in the Wilderness: Part 1

Lots of mystery from the start here with the planet. And the holographic appearance of the alien, which I assumed from the start is the only one left on the planet. I think this episode did a good job building up the story which will likely reach the peak in part 2.

Despite everything that was going on this episode, my favourite scene was still the one with Londo, Delenn and Draal. I enjoy the comic relief that Londo provides at times and this scene was one of my favourites so far. As in Farscape I like how they have scenes that poke fun at certain human things by using an alien perspective. More of these please!

1x19 - A Voice in the Wilderness: Part 2

So everything from part one comes to a head in this episode. The build up was good and now the exciting stuff happens. I liked almost everything about this episode.

The space battle was great, Londo was great and somewhere in all the craziness we got some great Garibaldi moments.

I think B5 does a pretty good job showing how petty and manipulative politics can be. The senator that Sinclair always contacts always seems to want to help but in the end never really does anything because he doesn't want to stick his neck out too far. The Earth Central captain comes off as typically arrogant straight off the bat too. They really don't like depicting Earth Central in a good light in this series

I'm assuming this is not the last we'll see of the planet and the technology that exists there. I was expecting Kosh to make some sort of appearance in this episode as this type of stuff seems to be right up the Vorlons alley (i.e. advanced tech). Also noticed that G'kar hasn't made an appearance for several episode. I figured in such a crisis situation that he would also have some role to play.

[magictrick]

1x20 - Babylon Squared

I think I need to rewatch this episode because I was fighting to stay awake from about halfway through. Nothing against the episode I was just really tired from the weekend.

I actually thought the episode was great. It is always fun to see how time travel or time dilation episodes are handled in different series. Instead of answering questions this episode just resulted in more mysteries. I think the questions that I have at this point are obvious, regarding both Delenn and the Commander.

One thing that I'm curious about is the prophecy the Grey Council was talking about. They said they ended the war because of the prophecy, do they really have the power to do that? End such a massive war based on a prophecy that is.

Whatever the reason for the time troubles of Babylon 4 and the Grey Council's decision to end the war, I'm sure the Commander is in the middle of it and so is Delenn. They seem to be two of the key characters in this whole saga.

To end things off: wars, prophecies, time travel, recurring mistakes, etc...sounds a lot like this other show that starts with a B

[LoneStar1836]

1x20 - Babylon Squared


One thing that I'm curious about is the prophecy the Grey Council was talking about. They said they ended the war because of the prophecy, do they really have the power to do that? End such a massive war based on a prophecy that is.

They are the ruling body on Minbar. Though not everyone on the council was happy the war was ended.

All will be clear once you get to the ep that explains the prophecy and why the war was ended.

[Gollumpus]

Something which may be useful for any questions which come up in your viewing of this series is "The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5" (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html).

There is an episode guide which is pretty good in that it does not contain spoilers. It has an overview of a given episode, some points of backplot from previous episodes, unanswered questions which arise from the episode, an analysis of the episode and finally, a Q&A with JMS which relate to the production of the episode.

regards,
G.

[Cold Fuzz]

Well, I got the new laptop just earlier today. I'm putting it through its paces right now and what better way to start off than to try out posts here on GateWorld?

1x14 - TKO

I think it would have been fun if this episode was renamed Rabbis in Space!

Overall this was a fun filler episode. I liked the major contrast between the two story lines - one about violence and the other about peace and accepting loss. Did the producers realize Muay Thai is a really popular fighting style that humans engage in every day though I maybe would have called it something else but either way it was entertaining to watch.

Really nice to see Susan's character developing in this episode. The rabbi was a good character and fun to watch, really believable in his role.

TKO is one of those episodes that may not serve incredible significance to the Babylon 5 arc, but it does reinforce certain strong events in the characters, not the least of which is Ivanova. After the tragedy with her mother, something in her father began to die as well. Of course, it got to the point where the two of them couldn't or wouldn't speak to each other. This great sadness filtered into Ivanova's love life as well. Without giving anything significant away, I will say that bits of this sadness could be seen all the way to the very last episode of the series chronology.

1x15 - Grail

I really didn't get this episode and what the point was. I understand there are fillers but this one missed the mark for me. Londo had some good moments but that is about it. The only other upside is that I got some information about the previous four Babylon stations and how they met their demise. Also not sure what the reason was for not contacting G'kar as the Grail guy said he contacted all ambassadors.

Another gripe I have is the guns on this show. I'm not a fan of the small fit in your pocket guns that I see used most of the time. I get that they pack a punch and are easy to carry but I like to see fancy, big guns . These just remind me of the Men In Black gun that Will Smith is stuck with in the first movie. Although that one was a lot more entertaining to watch.

I did watch this right after the Entourage series finale so that may have had something to do with it. I was bummed that the series is over and so many questions left to be answered.

The PPGs were designed to be able to cauterize flesh and inflict damage on living beings but without inflicting damage to the hull. Given that a hole in the hull would be problematic on a space station, I think the logic behind the PPG makes sense. The implementation though doesn't always work aesthetically speaking. We'll see bigger model PPGs, like PPG rifles, in the second season.

The overall point of Grail is a bit of exposition about the fate of the previous Babylon stations. Jinxo's story about Babylon 4, for example, isn't just a story... but you ended up seeing the truth of that in "Babylon Squared."

There's also the distinction about the distinctly different thinking between the Minbari Religious and Warrior Castes. This difference in character is expounded upon of course in "Legacies."

But of the more important character moments, I would say that Sinclair's sense of not belonging and disconnectedness is a big thing. He's a true seeker, though of course he doesn't realize it yet. As to the destiny he's seeking, he's headed towards something huge. What amazed me about his final destiny is how some of the clues were right in front of us and this episode was just one of many and season 1 that pointed to that destiny.

1x16 - Eyes

This was a refreshing episode. Good to see more of Lennier, really liked his role in this one and his interactions with Garibaldi.

We found out more about Ivanova and how the condition of her mother affected her. It was also good to see that at least some psycore folks are fairly normal people who are not ego-driven and choose to the right thing when necessary.

I see there was also more mention of Sinclair and the Menbari. I like that they brought up again, even though it was indirectly, just to show that the plot line has not been forgotten.

On a side note, in the opening credits, I find it different that they show a lot of characters under the "also starring" section who at most can be considered recurring characters. For example, I think I've seen Na'toth in maybe 3 episodes out of 16 so far.

I won't comment on this episode very much other than the Psi Corps isn't a monolithic entity. It's not all bad, but many of their members are. Harriman Grey would be one of those rare telepaths that would be able to integrate into normal society if Psi Corps didn't exist. Sadly, the very fact that it exists in the first place because of people's fears about teeps is a dark reality that would take some monumental events to rectify.

1x17 - Legacies

Do we find out what the cause of the Earth-Menbari war was?

This episode does mention some information regarding the war but not really what started. I know bits of information have been mentioned up until this point but nothing that reveals the reason. I would be interested to find out since it is mentioned in the intro every time and I still don't know why it happened.

As for the episode itself, I liked the conflict that ensued from the Menbari visit. It was nice to find out about the problems that currently face the Menbari as well. Delenn was really good in this episode, and so was her Menbari counterpart. Pretty much the guy you love to hate in any episode but he did a good job.

I sense the way they removed the body has something to do with Sinclair and that period of time he can't remember.

This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. It's one of many that feature what Minbari society is really like and the tension between the Religious and Warrior Castes makes for some wonderful dialogue and introspection. Speaking about my own life, I was one of those people who once upon a time would describe myself as someone who might've been in the Religious Caste. But the last few years confirmed that in character and mindset, I'd be someone who would fit in best in the Warrior Caste. All the same though, Neroon is a dislikable fellow and whatever loyalty he inspires in his troops would probably be because of fear, not out of genuine respect... or love.

I have to say that Delenn's decision for a miraculous "transformation" of Branmer's body did NOT help the tension between the castes. A dialogue about what to do with Branmer's body would've been preferable before the cremation. Alas, what's done is done and such action, even for a Satai such as Delenn, will have lasting consequences.

[Cold Fuzz]

1x18 - A Voice in the Wilderness: Part 1

Lots of mystery from the start here with the planet. And the holographic appearance of the alien, which I assumed from the start is the only one left on the planet. I think this episode did a good job building up the story which will likely reach the peak in part 2.

Despite everything that was going on this episode, my favourite scene was still the one with Londo, Delenn and Draal. I enjoy the comic relief that Londo provides at times and this scene was one of my favourites so far. As in Farscape I like how they have scenes that poke fun at certain human things by using an alien perspective. More of these please!

1x19 - A Voice in the Wilderness: Part 2

So everything from part one comes to a head in this episode. The build up was good and now the exciting stuff happens. I liked almost everything about this episode.

The space battle was great, Londo was great and somewhere in all the craziness we got some great Garibaldi moments.

I think B5 does a pretty good job showing how petty and manipulative politics can be. The senator that Sinclair always contacts always seems to want to help but in the end never really does anything because he doesn't want to stick his neck out too far. The Earth Central captain comes off as typically arrogant straight off the bat too. They really don't like depicting Earth Central in a good light in this series

I'm assuming this is not the last we'll see of the planet and the technology that exists there. I was expecting Kosh to make some sort of appearance in this episode as this type of stuff seems to be right up the Vorlons alley (i.e. advanced tech). Also noticed that G'kar hasn't made an appearance for several episode. I figured in such a crisis situation that he would also have some role to play.

This is one of those episodes that showcased what a good space battle in the Babylon 5 universe is like. There's strategy involved, with a lot of common sense things, like not having the planet slice you into smithereens but simultaneously keeping the transports safe. I especially liked the comment about Londo flying like a madman.

The background politics with Senator Hidoshi and Capt. Ellis signify how Earth is changing in character. You're getting a lot more people who are afraid to do what they know is the right thing because of the political backlash and you've got a certain trigger-happy mindset with some EA officers. Ellis is one of those undoubtedly. He's probably one of those jingoistic captains that thought, "If I'd been involved in the Minbari War..." But then he'd be one of thousand that would be sliced to death by Minbari beam weapons.

Draal is an interesting character in that he's illustrating some more of the problems that's going on in Minbari society. Minbari is a beautiful planet, which we'll be visited in future seasons. But right now its society is not nearly as united as the Minbari would have outsiders believe. For one thing, the Minbari surrender at the Battle of the Line, which the Warrior Caste has always always resented, has never been adequately addressed. The Warriors were looking for a direct explanation and they were never given one. I'm sure that would piss off more than a few of their ranks.

The Vorlons not making a big appearance in this episode is an interesting matter. Why would they intervene with Deathwalker but not this matter? Technically, this could tip the balance of power in the entire area but they decide to smoke Deathwalker for a drug? The ways of the Vorlons are mysterious and defy logic sometimes. However, the Vorlons have a logic of their own. If they did not prevent the transfer of power to Draal, it could stand to reason that in one way or another, their interests were being served by not intervening. But what exactly are their interests? At this point in the series, their objectives are as obscure as Londo's allies (the ones who helped him recover the Eye).

Speaking of Londo, he's shown some interesting moments in the two-parter. Whether these moments point to something good or not, it's really difficult to say. One thing is certain though, he's increasingly caught up in the "good old days" of the Centauri Republic. For good or ill, much of Londo's actions are being motivated by the "good old days."

Sinclair's destiny is alluded to yet again in this episode. I would say that yes, he could've worked out as the heart of the Great Machine, but Sinclair--believe it or not--is meant for something even greater.

1x20 - Babylon Squared

I think I need to rewatch this episode because I was fighting to stay awake from about halfway through. Nothing against the episode I was just really tired from the weekend.

I actually thought the episode was great. It is always fun to see how time travel or time dilation episodes are handled in different series. Instead of answering questions this episode just resulted in more mysteries. I think the questions that I have at this point are obvious, regarding both Delenn and the Commander.

One thing that I'm curious about is the prophecy the Grey Council was talking about. They said they ended the war because of the prophecy, do they really have the power to do that? End such a massive war based on a prophecy that is.

Whatever the reason for the time troubles of Babylon 4 and the Grey Council's decision to end the war, I'm sure the Commander is in the middle of it and so is Delenn. They seem to be two of the key characters in this whole saga.

To end things off: wars, prophecies, time travel, recurring mistakes, etc...sounds a lot like this other show that starts with a B

One thing to keep in mind about this episode is G'Kar's line from "Mind War": No one here is exactly what he appears. This applies to this episode as well. Yeah, there's a big firefight on the station it looks like our heroes lose. What force have we seen that could possibly bring about the fall of Babylon 5? Something to think about.

The other thing is of course, B4 be dragged through time. Who or what could possibly want B4 dragged through time? It's one of the biggest mysteries in the 2250s as far as the B5 universe goes. Once I found out the truth a few years ago, all I could really do was scratch my head, chuckle, and think, "Ah of course!"

Babyon 5 has only one time travel story, and "Babylon Squared" is the first half of this story. I'll say very little about this episode other than to expound a little more about Minbari society: The Grey Council is their ruling body, called forth by one of their most famous historical figures, Valen. The council consists of an equal balance between the 3 different Minbari castes: Religious, Worker, and Warrior. Valen's prophecies and his wisdom brought some badly needed order to Minbar as their society was quite fractured before he came.

And now Delenn is again taking action based on religious notions. Like with the situation with Branmer's body and the way she handled Neroon, these kinds of actions have consequences. Mind you, I don't disagree with her actions at all. However, as we'll see in season 2, I don't think Delenn fully considered the consequences to not just herself but to her society.

[magictrick]

Hey Cold Fuzz welcome back to the internets hope you're enjoying the laptop

The Vorlons not making a big appearance in this episode is an interesting matter. Why would they intervene with Deathwalker but not this matter? Technically, this could tip the balance of power in the entire area but they decide to smoke Deathwalker for a drug? The ways of the Vorlons are mysterious and defy logic sometimes. However, the Vorlons have a logic of their own. If they did not prevent the transfer of power to Draal, it could stand to reason that in one way or another, their interests were being served by not intervening. But what exactly are their interests? At this point in the series, their objectives are as obscure as Londo's allies (the ones who helped him recover the Eye).

I am still trying to decipher the Vorlons' logic at this point. I haven't seen enough of them yet to really understand what they are all about but I'm sure that will come in future seasons. Its funny though that the Vorlons blow Deathwalker out of the sky and there aren't any consequences for them. They take actions against their own, as we saw with Sinclair, but nothing against the Vorlons. For now it seems they are still viewed in a different light, above everyone else. I assume this is the case because they are conceived to be superior technologically and also because nobody really knows anything about them so it would be difficult to gauge their true power. Either way, I enjoy the mystery surrounding them and hope it keeps up.

[magictrick]

1x21 - The Quality of Mercy

"I did the necessary thing, which is not always the right thing"

Excellent quote to wrap up a pretty darn good episode.

I really like episodes that pose moral dilemmas and this one was great. The doctor was great once again, but the Laura character was even better. The ending was exactly how I would have predicted, and the killer got something that seems to be worse than death. I can't say I'm an advocate for an eye for an eye, but in some cases it just appears to be the only acceptable consequence for some people.

The juxtapose of the two story lines in this episode was also well done. I like the contrast, with the two plots being total opposites. Glad to see more of Lennier and Londo was great once again. His "tail" and conversation about it at the end was real LOL material.

Looking forward to the season finale next!

[Cold Fuzz]

Hey Cold Fuzz welcome back to the internets hope you're enjoying the laptop

I'm enjoying the laptop immensely! After 7 years of using a desktop computer, and a rather bulky one at that, switching to a laptop is liberating and comfortable too. I'm actually typing this post while reclining on my bed after a very long day. It's quite relaxing being able to type this and be able to listen to music at the same time. I'd say that my typing skills have actually gotten better using this laptop.

I am still trying to decipher the Vorlons' logic at this point. I haven't seen enough of them yet to really understand what they are all about but I'm sure that will come in future seasons. Its funny though that the Vorlons blow Deathwalker out of the sky and there aren't any consequences for them. They take actions against their own, as we saw with Sinclair, but nothing against the Vorlons. For now it seems they are still viewed in a different light, above everyone else. I assume this is the case because they are conceived to be superior technologically and also because nobody really knows anything about them so it would be difficult to gauge their true power. Either way, I enjoy the mystery surrounding them and hope it keeps up.

Without giving anything away, the Vorlons do follow a certain sense of logic. Their reasoning is completely outside what humans, Minbari, or certain other races to be... familiar. In fact, they have an entire philosophy centered around a particular belief. That belief is expounded upon in glimpses through Kosh's point of view in some of the canon books. We see a... different take on Vorlon thought and philosophy through the point of view of another Vorlon in those same books. I'm speaking of the Technomage books in particular. They're very much worth reading. We get a big dose of what they're about in the series too.

The only other thing I can say about the Vorlons is that like any other race or faction depicted on Babylon 5, they too have their adversaries...

1x21 - The Quality of Mercy

"I did the necessary thing, which is not always the right thing"

Excellent quote to wrap up a pretty darn good episode.

I really like episodes that pose moral dilemmas and this one was great. The doctor was great once again, but the Laura character was even better. The ending was exactly how I would have predicted, and the killer got something that seems to be worse than death. I can't say I'm an advocate for an eye for an eye, but in some cases it just appears to be the only acceptable consequence for some people.

The juxtapose of the two story lines in this episode was also well done. I like the contrast, with the two plots being total opposites. Glad to see more of Lennier and Londo was great once again. His "tail" and conversation about it at the end was real LOL material.

Looking forward to the season finale next!

I'll say very little about this episode other than the alien "healing" device becomes a plot point multiple times in the future: a wee bit in the second season and at a crucial point near the very end of the fourth season. Other than that, consider this particular food for thought about the killer: In a thousand years, no Minbari has killed another Minbari. It is one of their greatest laws as set down by Valen. Is it conceivable that humanity could ever even hope to approach such a feat in real life? If that particular bit about the Minbari is true, which I'm inclined to believe it is canonically true, then that says much about the Minbari.

A small blurb about the season finale. It will upturn everything we've come to think about the direction of the series up until that point, setting the show spinning on a very different axis coming into season 2. You'll see what I mean by the end of the episode 2 of season 2. Nothing in Babylon 5 will be the same. Actually, that particular line could be said of a number of episodes in the series.

I'm glad you seem to be enjoying the series thus far. You've reached a major turning point with the season finale and will embark upon some of the best science fiction I've personally ever seen with seasons 2 through 4.

[magictrick]

1x22 - Chrysalis

After watching this my initial impression was really WT*! I've never seen a season finale that posed so many questions before. It was one thing after another right from the start.

We've got a potential new alien race, a successful assassination attempt on a now dead president, a transformation of one of the characters into something else and more Vorlon mysteries.

I'm not going to list all the questions I have because I don't want any of them answered Lets just say I'm glad I have the ability to start watching the next season on my own terms. If I was watching this show as it was airing I think I'd be really frustrated with everything. After a fairly slow paced season they just throw a major curve ball in the last episode.

I gotta give props to the creators of this show for that. It wasn't always easy to maintain interest in the first season but they sure made it worthwhile, and now I can sort of appreciate some of the buildup to this finale.

[magictrick]

A small blurb about the season finale. It will upturn everything we've come to think about the direction of the series up until that point, setting the show spinning on a very different axis coming into season 2. You'll see what I mean by the end of the episode 2 of season 2. Nothing in Babylon 5 will be the same. Actually, that particular line could be said of a number of episodes in the series.

Well if you read my review above, you can see I totally agree with this. Everything definitely gets turned upside down at the end, and we have yet to see the true repercussions of all the events that took place here.

I'm curious to see what season 2 has in store and I hope the fallout from all that has happened is well executed. From what I can tell the key to this show is pacing. Nothing is revealed too quickly. There's lots of build up to specific events. And lots of times you are left scratching your head. But I'm enjoying this type of story telling, definitely different from most other shows.

[SaberBlade]

[B]
I gotta give props to the creators of this show for that. It wasn't always easy to maintain interest in the first season but they sure made it worthwhile, and now I can sort of appreciate some of the buildup to this finale.

It's a bit slow at times, but definitely worth going through the first season. What's interesting about the first season is that it's generally under-appreciated first time you watch it, but after making your way through all five seasons, it's interesting to watch it again and just see how many small things from the first season became important or memorable for things that happened later (and this also goes for the pilot movie 'The Gathering').