Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[Chaka-Z0]

Hey be nice I watched one YouTube video and I'm completely God blown.

[Falcon Horus]

The starship or a naval vessel such as a carrier?

And in either case, please share whatever you were smoking at the time.

The starship... and I was stuck in a traffic jam at the time so I guess you could say I was high on exhaust fumes.

[Chaka-Z0]

Careful you'll trigger CC deniers, car fumes are perfectly safe.

Texting while driving while smoking cO2 while posting on GW?

That's 5 years of American jail right there young lady

[SGalisa]

Especially since at the time of Jesus life, the "covenant" was considered lost according to the texts mentioned in the old testament. Just a small detail... if you believe that sort of thing.

More on this later (next posting, because it is too lengthy).. Huge, huge back story behind it's (current possible) location. So, there IS evidence, in writing. The Ark is NOT lost, and NOT in Ethiopia. Lots of duplicates out there... might be a few for movie making magic... but still, just google or bing for the Ark images... It seemed this was turning into one of those "guess the REAL Ark's image and location" moments!

As for authenticating this, the (Israeli) Temple Institute claims they know *exactly* where it is, even tho they have recreated a new Ark with a different styling to it. Looks nothing like a seat or chair to sit on. It looks more like a fancy table top decoration... more like the top covering to an URN. And their angels (to me) look sort of ugly...

And yes, the image shown at the bottom of the Temple Institute's web page for the Ark, is exactly what the new one looks like. Yikes!

Spoiler:

https://templeinstitute.org/ark_of_the_covenant.htm

Anywho...

Unfortunately though that your amateur, Ron Wyatt, was and is considered a con man by your own religion.

I've read the commentaries, and taken note of the whole "con" remarks. However, I have also watched the videos and paired and pieced those together with other sources that I have NOT listed in my postings here. Based on all of these things, I disagree about the con-man stuff. I've seen the Noah's Ark research... especially the underground sonar/echo penetration images. THAT is amazing! Huge boat underground! TPTB wouldn't be able to remove it from its current location, because it has been dismantled to some degrees and got seriously damaged by a huge boulder that severed it in half...just like the Titanic.

As for the "con-man" remarks made against Ron ---- It's mostly *trolls* and the *established* "Church" communities who dislike Ron's claimed discoveries. They reject his archaeological digging, mostly because he didn't have the degree in background education for antiquities. He had a medical degree, and did the archaeological stuff as an amateur hobby. Thus, Ron, his work and theories are not recognized by the rest of the "educated" world... and the more "expert" people have felt upstaged from Ron's work getting the attention that it did receive at the time. Most people ignore it now, except for the persistent *trolls*.

However, certain situations have been historically well known enough that God doesn't always use sophisticated scholars to accomplish a certain work. Moses was rejected and even chased / hunted down by Pharaoh during the "Exodus", who was part of Moses' extended (adoptive) family; and even the Hebrews rebelled at Mount Sinai while Moses went up the mountain to spend time with "God".

Personally, I've seen dozens of the videos where Ron Wyatt had some connection to. The *evidence* in the videos speak for themselves. I do think that some of the people promoting Ron's work, *do* have a few details a bit on the screwy side.. meaning there are some details of info might be a tad off in certain areas, as in simply skewed off course slightly. (One item was a very weird detail, that agrees with Judaism and connects directly with obedience to the Sabbath Laws, but seemed to be promoted as something that several 7th-Day-Adventists actually believe in as *should be the ONLY and correct* way to obey the "Sabbath" commandment).
My reaction to that was "whaaaaaaaaat?" ...head scratcher on that detail.

Not to go nit-picking, but the stuff that is "out there" -- needs to be, AND has been cross-reference with higher personas in many of the situations Ron got involved with. One of the videos went into the story of a prominent Rabbi who *saw* the ark. It was rabbi Shlomo Goren, who was an Orthodox Religious Zionist rabbi in Israel, who saw the ARK in the chamber! There was an article that explains this event, but it may be deliberately distorted to protect the real location, because the article states rabbi Shlomo Goren saw the ark hidden under the Dome of the Rock's Temple Mount.

In addition to the article, if I heard correctly----according to a Michael Rood video, rabbi Shlomo Goren videotaped his experience, but the tape got confiscated and disappeared after Shlomo Goren was imprisoned for some protest event he got involved with. In more recent years (also mentioned on one of Michael Rood's videos), another rabbi who remained unnamed, spoke up at an Orthodox rabbinical meeting in the New York area, and stated that the story about seeing and the "location" of the original Ark was true. NOTE: Nothing further was mentioned about it.

Cross-referencing the above stories with a message by Thomas S. McCall, Th.D., and posted on Zola Levitt's website, is a semi-detailed story about Rabbi Yehuda Getz claimed to have reached within 40 feet of the cave or tunnel system that led to the original Holy of Holies. It was shut down, due to Muslims threatening a general riot when they found out about the digging, and the entrance to the tunnel was resealed and blocked off. Unless, of course, that whole Dome of the Rock *location* was just an elaborate hoax that was set up to protect the real Ark and location, and invested in as deliberate disinformation side-story that was sent out to see if any unwanted seekers would actually seek it at the wrong location (which would be near/under the Dome of the Rock, instead of the Golgotha area). Ahhh, memories of the real movie, "Raiders of the Lost Ark"...

Speaking of the movie, I wondered if there were two locations involved, because this was occurring almost near the same time the fictional movie story about the "Lost Ark" was being shown in theatres... hmmmm. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Israeli authorities were in on the "secret" and let the digging by the Dome of the Rock go on, for security reasons. *Awesome* plot-work ---- if this was indeed the situation and case...

If this was an attention getting, elaborate side-story, then as some sages who have seen Ron Wyatt's videos showing a different location, which was far away from the Dome of the Rock, noted... "they were digging in the wrong place!" ...

If the Golgotha story location is TRUE, then there should NOT be any problems with the Dome of the Rock. In fact, there are other videos where searching for the Temple is believed to be at least 600 feet away from the Temple Mount/Dome of the Rock taboo areas. The whole tunnel system connects to the Golgotha area, which is outside of the old city's walls.

I saw the area... it's just a large, grassy area... no stones from the 2nd Temple are there, which would reinforce that the Temple stones were completely removed, just as Jesus said/prophesied it would happen..."not one stone would remain..." The reason why *that* location is being examined has a lot to do with a natural underground river system that traveled thru the original Temple complex... a pool is nearby, as well. This water was needed for the Temple sacrifices and purification rituals. There is no water supply under the Dome of the Rock area. More evidence pointing AWAY from the Dome of the Rock area...? If TRUE, then this is GOOD news for the rebuilding of the 3rd Temple.

[SGalisa]

Thought I'd dump these two quotes into one lump...

There's so much wrong here. Doctrinally, Scientifically, Scripturally, logically, and even basic geography (How blood from Calvary which is outside of the city walls made it into the temple mount area...)

. . .

There are no words to describe how ridiculous this is.

Especially since at the time of Jesus life, the "covenant" was considered lost according to the texts mentioned in the old testament. Just a small detail... if you believe that sort of thing.

The "Ark of the Covenant" is NOT and has apparently NEVER been lost. It's Only been *LOST* to the general public, and seems to have been put into a wild-goose chase type scenario... maybe for drama. IDK... Maybe because TPTB didn't know *what* the best way or method to deal with this subject was, except to keep an air of mystery surrounding this "most sacred object".

As noted in my previous post, the Temple Institute has stated they know *exactly* where the ARK is. Their comment is at their web page about the Ark in the link I provided in the *spoiler* brackets.

The whole back story to where the ARK was hidden is probably best explained in Thomas S. McCall's message on Zola Levitt's website. Zola Levitt was a Jew, who became a Messianic Christian believer. I first heard Zola during the 1980's, so I am familiar with his work.
In the spoiler space below is an article written by Thomas S. McCall, which is on Zola Levitt's web site.

Spoiler:

"Where is the Ark of the Covenant?" by Thomas S. McCall

"This article appeared originally in the January 1997 Levitt Letter."

This article explains that the ARK was NOT present during the entire 2nd Temple time, including when Jesus of Nazareth visited that very Temple. I had seen this story in several other locations, and thought it was a fabrication or just a wild theory...even if a *strong* wild theory, so I ignored it...sort of... The story I came across explained that when the Veil of the Temple was ripped from top to bottom, because the earthquake at Jesus' death was so severe it tore it completely to reveal the rouse the priesthood was hiding... there was NO Ark in the Temple...

Yeah, that got my curiosity going... but I wanted to see more proof and didn't get it for a long time (like several years!)... until I stumbled upon Ron Wyatt's videos on his Ark of the Covenant research. That was when I started realizing there may be FAR MORE to this ARK story with TRUTH somewhere in the middle...?

Further investigation and reinforcement thereof goes like this... In the 2 Maccabees 2:1-8 (in the Apocrypha portion of the Bible), it is revealed that the prophet Jeremiah had the Ark removed from the Temple before the 1st Temple got destroyed, and hidden in a cave on a mountain outside the city and sealed the entrance. The reference was removed from the original 1611 KJV by the American Bible Society. Jeesh... talk about conspiracies! It is still included in the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA). Spoiler space below has internet versions, as noted.

Spoiler:

"2 Maccabees 2:1-8" This passage describes the Bible references to the hiding of the Ark from the Temple into a hidden cave/chamber that was located just outside the old city walls, but inside the siege walls that were built by the Babylonians ---- who wanted to surround and seal / cut off the entire city of Jerusalem and its existing inhabitants from escaping to the outside world.

The rest of the story is that the original Ark was never seen again, until Ron Wyatt found it, documented it, and the entire area was sealed up until the appointed day it gets revealed to the entire world. Will it matter at that future time? Depends on "which" future time the appointed day falls upon... whether people are apathetic at that time and don't care, or when Israel's TRUE Messiah shows up and has the Ark set up for His purposes (and by that time, people will have no choice, but to *care*!).

[Falcon Horus]

Texting while driving while smoking cO2 while posting on GW?
That's 5 years of American jail right there young lady

I wasn't texting while driving, I was tweeting and I was standing still... although to the law there's no difference since I was still technically occupied with my cellphone which I generally don't do in the car -- I don't even pick up the phone in the car.

And I also wasn't on GW -- only do that at home or like now, at work.

As for authenticating this, the (Israeli) Temple Institute claims they know *exactly* where it is...

I'll bite... and I'll probably regret doing so but I need the distraction cause one of my colleagues is getting on my nerves with his radio -- I have turned on The Da Vinci Code soundtrack to tune him out for now. Also, can I be a knight protecting the royal bloodline please?

Anywho...

We certainly need some background here, and we should start with the Temple Institute and their mission for existing in the first place.

As most people have guessed by now they are an Israelean group, based in Jerusalem. Their primary goal is to build the third temple, and they'll stop at nothing to proof they have every right to do so, ignoring that which does not fit into their narrative, I suspect.

They also want to re-introduce animal sacrifice -- in particular a sort of cow. *shrug* Apparently its blood is needed to cleanse all humans who wish to ascend the temple mount.

Anywho...

...here's an interesting take on the "ark of the covenant" which does not fit into TI/SGA's narrative but does make sense in mine...

The Real Ark of the Covenant May Have Housed Pagan Gods
The holy ark was likely kept in Jerusalem for much less time than the Bible tells us. And it may have contained something other than the Ten Commandments

From the article:

Early Israelites worshipped Canaanite gods like Baal and El, as suggested by the 8th-century Hebrew inscriptions found at a shrine in Kuntillet Ajrud, in northeast Sinai, and by both the biblical subtext and the archeological record.

In the early days, Yahweh himself was far from an invisible, universal deity. He was worshipped in the form of a bull or a sitting god; he had a divine consort, Asherah, and, as shown again in the Ajrud inscriptions, had localized cults that venerated “Yahweh of Samaria” and “Yahweh of Teman,” rather than a centralized worship in Jerusalem.

In his book “The Invention of God,” Römer writes that throughout the Levant, it was common for pre-Islamic Arabs and Bedouins to carry holy chests that contained two sacred stones or the statues of two gods, that were later replaced by the Koran. Similarly, the ark may have originally contained two statues representing Yahweh and Asherah, he speculates.

Indirect support for the theory abounds. Baal was the Canaanite god of storms associated with war and fertility. Aside from Kiryath Jearim's alternative name of Kiryath Baal, throughout the biblical narrative, the ark is connected to war – for example, it is carried into battle by the Israelites. It is also connected to fertility. Hannah, the Prophet Samuel’s mother, is a sterile woman who is blessed with a child after praying at the Tabernacle in Shiloh and then dedicates her son to the service of God.

Mentioned in the article are Thomas Römer, a world-renowned expert in the Hebrew Bible and a professor at the College de France and the University of Lausanne, and Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University.

Both work(ed) at the excavations at Kiriath-Jearim.

Information on the site:

Kiriath-Jearim is located in a commanding spot in the Judean highlands, 12 km west of Jerusalem. The Arabic name – Deir el-Azar – probably stems from the reference to Eleazar, who according to 1 Samuel 7: 1 took charge of the ark of the covenant when it was brought to Kiriath-Jearim. The identification of Deir el-Azar with biblical Kiriath-Jearim is accepted unanimously. The mound is ca. 250 x 250 m in size = 5 hectares, one of the biggest Iron Age tells in the highlands. It has not been damaged by modern construction.

The site is mentioned many times in the Bible: as a border town between the territories of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, in the Ark Narrative, the list of returnees from exile and other places. According to the Book of Samuel the ark had been captured by the Philistines following the defeat of Israel in the battle of Eben-ezer. It then spread havoc in Philistines cities and was hence returned to Beth-shemesh. From there it was taken to Kiriath-Jearim and finally brought by King David to Jerusalem.

The Ark Narrative and the strong polemic against the town in the Bible hint at the existence of a temple in late-monarchic times.

I've seen the Noah's Ark research... especially the underground sonar/echo penetration images.

This the "boat" shape you're referring to:



Here you go, a ground penetrating image of Noah's ark...



The below one is interesting, but I don't have a trained eye for this so if they say it's roman debri, I guess they could be right...



Also, for reference... here's an actual document for a survey requesting ground penetrating radar. Anyone having 5000 dollar to spare, I want to go do some metaldetecting in my yard.

TPTB wouldn't be able to remove it from its current location, because it has been dismantled to some degrees and got seriously damaged by a huge boulder that severed it in half...just like the Titanic.

A) anyone even remotely familiar with proper archaeology knows that artefacts can be removed no matter their state. Just *******, how do you think they moved ancient Egyptian jewelry from tombs... IN ONE FREAKIN' PIECE... those things fall apart where people stand and have to be puzzled back together if they ever want to be studied and put on display.

B) pompeii was destroyed by a volcano -- didn't stop archaeologist from digging into the volcanic rock and go on a disvery spree

C) there's absolutely no reason to make excuese, especially with a "find" like that... so can anyone say "hoax"...

D) heck, even an artificial lake hasn't stopped archaeologists from excavating a site in Iraq.

Sidenote: the Titanic was pulled apart by its own mass when the front dipped under and couldn't handle the pressure on its fuselage, thus broke in two... and landing at the bottom at a mile apart (didn't look it up, but they're not too far apart the two halves). And one of the reasons the Titanic was never lifted from the bottom, is that it would be freaking expanisve to do so, but more importantly it's a mass grave site and should as well be left where it is, no matter how much I want to see it up close.

They reject his archaeological digging, mostly because he didn't have the degree in background education for antiquities.

He's an Indiana Jones wannabe... or was, since he died.

Are you familiar with the archaeological methodology? Even remotely?
If not, here's a step-by-step.

He lacked all of them.

I never saw Indiana Jones movies because they irk me to no end... so can't comment on that bit.

But I do know where Mary Magdalene is buried these days...

The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits.
The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates.
Adorned in masters' loving art, She lies.
She rests at last beneath the starry skies.

...it's not Roslyn Chapel in Scotland, build by the Templar Knights themselves.

[Falcon Horus]

In the spoiler space below is an article written by Thomas S. McCall, which is on Zola Levitt's web site.

Oh god... He's attached to the Scofield Biblical Institute and Theological Seminary...

Great source... especially when you read their doctrine page... Our Doctrinal Statement

Paragraph one for you:

"The Scriptures??We believe all the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inspired by God. This refers to the autographs as written by the prophets and apostles. Thus the Bible is inerrant and without mistakes in the original. We believe Scripture reveals the mind of God to man, and points to the Lord Jesus Christ and the only way of Salvation through Christ. The Scriptures are the only infallible guide for our daily thought-life as well as our practical, moral, and spiritual instruction (Mark 12:26, 36; 13:11; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Acts 1:16; 17:2-3; 18:28; 26:22-?23; 28:23; Romans 15:4; 1 Corinthians 2:13; 10:11; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21).?As such we do not accept any “special” teaching of the so called “moving of the spirit” apart from the Word, or a denomination teaching that runs contrary to the Bible."

I feel like I've landed smack in the middle of the Da Vinci Code itself.

Well, I did say I wanted to be a knight protecting the royal bloodline -- the sangreal -- most commonly known as the holy grail.

[Chaka-Z0]

Perhaps I'm wrong since y'all are experts on theology but I thought early Christians worshiped some forms pagan Gods or Idols or Goddess or else. I've seen images of scribbles of the Tree of Life (Yggdrasil in Norse mythology I think?) in the Templar prisons at Dome, but not sure if that's confirmed or possible hoax.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but those guys used a ''crooked'' cross, kind of similar to the Ankh and worshiped possibly some Egyptian Gods?

[Falcon Horus]

I've seen images of scribbles of the Tree of Life (Yggdrasil in Norse mythology I think?) in the Templar prisons at Dome, but not sure if that's confirmed or possible hoax.

Domme in Dordogne (France) is real enough:

"The Porte des Tours, dates back to the end of the 13th century and stands as the most imposing and best preserved of the ramparts. It served as a prison for 70 Templar knights between 1307 and 1318. Large amounts of graffiti were carved into the stone by the prisoners, remaining faithful to their Catholic beliefs in spite of persecution. In 1970, studies were conducted on these carvings. Searchers discovered other inscriptions that were invisible to the naked eye."

The tree of life, I don't know... never heard of Domme or the graffiti -- which I now realize I should rectify.

I did a quick google search but couldn't immediately locate any scientific referrence. However, then I remembered Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland which has many different carvings and symbols so perhaps there's something there that connects here --> https://www.rosslynchapel.com

[aretood2]

aretood2, I get the impression you are an amillenialist (no millenium)...just that you live, die, and that's it. Heaven or hell judgement, without the 1000 years of peace on earth first. Also, that you have stated that you believe the Generation Jesus was referring to already happened in during the first century A.D./C.E.

The Jury is still out on that one.

The problem is there is a pause in at the signaled destruction of the Temple and the rest of "the end of the age"... Luke 21:9 notes that wars will happen... those "things must happen first, but the END will NOT come right away". So, the obvious question is that NO one knows how much time occurs between the initial and complete destruction of the 2nd Temple to the very "END of the AGE"... What age? Which age?

Observe that the "whole world" is also a key phrase to which Generation would see the rest of these things occur. The first disciples didn't want to leave Jerusalem, so the WHOLE world was FAR from being involved at that time. Now, we have airplanes and giant ocean-liner ships sailing the globe with Christian Missionaries spreading the "gospel" to the ENDS of the earth and any potential missed cracks in between.

"This generation will not pass away until all these things happen." Matthew 24:34
(Entire section is Matthew 24:2-44, continues with parables thru Matthew 25:13; also see Mark 13:1-37; Luke 21:5-35)

Your answer is there. I've told you before... yet you (aretood2) refuse to accept see any of the things I have mentioned prior as a *possibility* that they may actually be part of what Jesus was referring to. So be it. I'm only repeating myself by rewriting these things out.
It's been understood for centuries these things would occur near each other, almost in an orchestrated event (ONE Generation, but no one knows for certain what year that "Generation" started at...and whether it is 40 years or 70 or 80 years).

<snip for space>

You hold the Futurist interpretation, that the generation is a future generation that will witness the beginning and end of the end times. There's the opposite, the Preterist interpretation, that Jesus spoke of the current generation that would end towards/around the end of the first Century. Then there's a third interpretation, that Jesus referred to another use of the word generation "genos" meaning people and he was promising that Jews will remain until the end of time (Suck it Hitler).

There are two main things to consider here for Scripture and the words recorded in it. First, why were they spoken and then why were they written? Why does it matter? Well when it comes to prophecy God could have easily just given this information to the Apostles via prophetic utterances in the way Daniel and Prophets experienced (See Apostle John's prophecies). So why did Jesus feel the need to speak about the future? Because it was relevant to the Apostles and the earliest Christ followers at that very specific time. I hold a Preterist view for its utterance and the "genos" view for its recording.

I hold the view that the Bible in parts and as a whole is multigenerational. By that I mean is that the words written, were written in such a fashion through divine inspiration to hold meaning for each generation. If we take a purely futurist interpretation, then that section of scripture becomes meaningless for more than nineteen hundred years. For it to hold meaning across time, it can't be futurist. Ditto for Revelations.

Otherwise, if Revelations only has meaning for the last generations of believers, then why not simply send a Prophet or an Apostle during or right before the end times to prophesize? The most logical answer is that the need for sharing those prophecies was Preterist and the need for recording all of revelations was multigenerational in nature.

So the generation is both the primitive church in a Preterist sense, and God's people in the "genos" sense.

Part 2 of 2...

(SGalisa's note----aretood2's above quote was directed at more referencing to my quote about the Ark of the Covenant...)

There are plenty more videos about the original Ark. <space snip>

Both the Ark and the Ark of the Covenant remain lost. Anything beyond that is in the category of conspiracy theories, hoaxes, and misplaced focus. You keep pointing to obscure sources, obscure people (known for their lies) and third hand accounts that are vague at best. There are a host of very powerful and very influential parties who would be heavily invested in not just the discovery of these two things, but their public discovery. To allege that they are being hidden is a claim that, to say the least, would require very clear and concrete well known demonstrable evidence.

I'm guessing (aretood2) your personality is a bit too practical-minded to see beyond logic and *science* and edge into the impossible supernatural realms, where *anything* can be possible.

I believe a man from Nazareth born 2,000 years ago is the Messiah who was Crucified and came back to life three days after his death and has ascended and not is seated next to Jehovah of hosts who has created the heavens and the Earth and all the exists within them who interacts with his people by means of Prophets, Apostles, and Miracles of which managed to be accuratly recorded in a series of books, letters, songs, poems, and stories spanning thousands of years written by dozens of authors collected in a singular volume and properly preserved throughout the melinia to bring us a reliable source of God's dealings...

Then again, you are right in assuming that I do have a certain regard for logic and science....So whatever rocks your boat, I guess.

As for chromosome count? Really? You expect if GOD's "Holy Spirit" impregnated Mary (that is, caused a baby to become alive and growing like a normal human, but with only half of 46 + 1 chromosome count=24), that there'd be another 23 chromosomes? Hello... God is immortal... He's made of SPIRIT... something us limited minded humans cannot comprehend. So, only ONE Y chromosome to identify gender from the "Father's side"... A child can figure this out, but you adults can't? How did God make a *fully human* Eve come to life --just from being formed from Adam's rib? Figure that one out, and you've solved one of life's biggest mysteries..!!

<More space Snipping>

So you're a Docetist? That's clearly a heresy, and a realy ancient one at that. Jesus was a man, a human. And no human can exist with 23 Chromosomes. No human fetus can exist with 23 Chromosomes. There just isn't enough genetic information there. So either Jesus wasn't human and thus the vast majority of Christian got it all wrong and Gnostic Christianity (Or one of the other heresies like the Marcianites or the Docetists) was the true word of God or Jesus was human and he had a full set of Chromosomes. It's either or on this one. So are you a Gnostic or a Marcianite or a Docetist all of a sudden?


If a miracle made Jesus possible with 23 Chromosomes, then he is not human. There's no other way around it.

If you (or anyone else here) cannot accept those tiny details as a possible TRUTH, then you won't accept the rest of what Jesus has to say, outside of picking and choosing "golden rules for living" verses.

I'm willing to bet you don't follow all of his commandments and I am not talking about common mistakes or falling into temptation. I'm talking about straight up disregarding them.

Perhaps I'm wrong since y'all are experts on theology but I thought early Christians worshiped some forms pagan Gods or Idols or Goddess or else. I've seen images of scribbles of the Tree of Life (Yggdrasil in Norse mythology I think?) in the Templar prisons at Dome, but not sure if that's confirmed or possible hoax.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but those guys used a ''crooked'' cross, kind of similar to the Ankh and worshiped possibly some Egyptian Gods?

There are only two ways for you to be correct here. If you mean that before the converted, yes, many were Pagans, others were Jews. If you mean saint worship, then yes...but I am sure Catholics would strongly disagree on that and MG (if he reads this) can provide that argument for me.

The first generation of Christians was almost exclusively Jewish until Paul began preaching. And even then most of those convert seem to have been people who were already in the process of converting to Judaism or sympathetic to Judaism and thus had already abandoned paganism for the most part (The proselytes that the Bible mentions). Jews figured a large part of the early church. As a Jewish sect, they were perfectly Monotheistic. The idea of Trinity (Three co-equal beings being God but not being each other...it's complicated) didn't exist until the mid to late 200s (and that's the earliest estimate). At some point after the 50s or 60s more and more pagans began to convert to Christianity without approaching Judaism first. By the end of the first Century I believe non-Jewish Christians outnumbered Jewish/Proselyte Christians. By the end of the second century there probably were very few Jewish converts.

I don't know about the inscriptions you mentioned, but during the 3rd century many of those pagan converts were influencing Christian practices with some leftovers from their old religion. In the 4th Century as the Catholic Church solidified (as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches) it began adopting and synchronizing a lot of things. So I wouldn't be surprised if such inscriptions are genuine hundreds of years down the road to the time of the templars.

[Chaka-Z0]

I did a quick google search but couldn't immediately locate any scientific referrence. However, then I remembered Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland which has many different carvings and symbols so perhaps there's something there that connects here --> https://www.rosslynchapel.com

Yep I believe Rosslyn Chapel does have the tree of life / green man whatever they call it showing the cycle of rebirth.

As for Domme grafitis here's an image of what I'm talking about

Spoiler:

As you can see on this image the carvings on the right ressemble the Tree of Life, below is an example of I believe the most ancient representation of the Tree found to date (very similar)

Spoiler:

If you mean saint worship, then yes...but I am sure Catholics would strongly disagree on that and MG (if he reads this) can provide that argument for me.


I don't know about the inscriptions you mentioned, but during the 3rd century many of those pagan converts were influencing Christian practices with some leftovers from their old religion. In the 4th Century as the Catholic Church solidified (as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches) it began adopting and synchronizing a lot of things. So I wouldn't be surprised if such inscriptions are genuine hundreds of years down the road to the time of the templars.

See above for links of the images. That's what puzzles me, those guys (templars) were around what, 1100-1300? Those carvings have definitely been dated during the time of their incarceration this much I know.

What puzzles me is this, obviously we know that idolatry was a false charge levied against the Templars by the King of France' schemes but isn't the Tree of Life considered an idol in itself? Shouldn't that be God or perhaps this is their representation of God?

[aretood2]

Yep I believe Rosslyn Chapel does have the tree of life / green man whatever they call it showing the cycle of rebirth.

As for Domme grafitis here's an image of what I'm talking about



As you can see on this image the carvings on the right ressemble the Tree of Life, below is an example of I believe the most ancient representation of the Tree found to date (very similar)





See above for links of the images. That's what puzzles me, those guys (templars) were around what, 1100-1300? Those carvings have definitely been dated during the time of their incarceration this much I know.

What puzzles me is this, obviously we know that idolatry was a false charge levied against the Templars by the King of France' schemes but isn't the Tree of Life considered an idol in itself? Shouldn't that be God or perhaps this is their representation of God?

Well the "tree of life" also makes an appearance in Genesis in the garden of Eden. There's the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, and there's the tree of life. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they were kicked out so that they would not take from the tree of life. A mention of a tree of life in another religion would be taken to be a corrupted form of the truth. As in some ancestors of the norse who were long forgotten knew about the tree and the only memory left is contained in a very corrupted form in Norse Mythology. So by depicting a Norse Tree of Life, it's kinda like restoring a damaged message to its "true" original form, a Christian form while taking out the "corrupt" elements.

Going beyond that, you also have some Mystical aspects in Judaism and Christianity that can feed into this. It might not even be the actual Norse stories that the Templars had in mind, they just took the iconography and applied it to whatever Mystic myths they associated with the tree of life in the Genesis story. I'd have to do some research on the matter but those are my guesses for the time being.

[Chaka-Z0]

Okay tree of life is Christian-approved, not an idol, got it thanks for the info (Tood & cie)

What about the cross we can see on the image too? Looks much more like an Ankh to me than the straight cross we can see nowadays in churches. This looks a lot more like a crucified man with the head dangling on the side.

Perhaps the design was altered / adapted throughout the ages so not to resemble the Egyptian Ankh and you know, heresy? I know some Christian icons were, such as Jesus becoming a white man over time in our western churches.

(I just want to make it clear, for the record, that I am in no shape or form associated to any conspiracy theory, I just enjoy medieval-christian history)

[Falcon Horus]

What about the cross we can see on the image too? Looks much more like an Ankh to me than the straight cross we can see nowadays in churches. This looks a lot more like a crucified man with the head dangling on the side.

I can't seem to locate again now, but apparently there are examples of similar crosses found in England.

(I just want to make it clear, for the record, that I am in no shape or form associated to any conspiracy theory, I just enjoy medieval-christian history)

Found a guy who visited Domme and did some research on the subject. He is by no means a scientific scholar or expert so take his article however you like to take it.

Lost Graffiti of the Templars
Graffiti made by the Knights Templar in a bastion in south western France prompts an investigation into their possible meanings, and further examples in England.

That tree of life depiction is considered a depiction of the Holy Grail in his article.

And here's one about the Chateaux of Chinon, France: Hidden Treasure: Templar Graffiti

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As a kid I loved the history of the Templar Knights, and knights in general, and medieval history... and then the Romans walked away with my interest, and then discovered Celtic history... and well... I'm basically all over the place.
My sister has a master's degree in Assyriology.

[Chaka-Z0]

Very interesting thx for that. This order was shrouded in mystery and seemed to have access to knowledge unknown to most of the nobility at the time. It has been speculated that the Templars might've found ancient Egyptian papyrus scrolls depicting construction during their crusades. I mean look at the Templars emblem (the pyramid with the eye on US dollar notes), it looks just like the ancient survey tool (the triangle shaped pendant like) used by Egyptians to build structures. I know it's the sign of the Freemasons but I think they're both the same.

Nobody at the time was on the same level of building techniques... Malbork Castle this castle held against cannons for over 2 months and never taken, that was during the time period that castles became useless due to cannons. That's some strong walls right there.