The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

If the front door on a house is locked, does that give the burglar the right to pick the lock or pry open a side window? No.

You have NO RIGHT to lock that door, it is a breach of the law. By locking the door, you are merely creating the condition you are complaining about in order to put people from one group (legal) into another (illegal).
Now, if you want to cut ALL immigration, your thought could be somewhat justified, but you don't, so it isn't.

Correct. But if Mexico doesn't wish to allow them to remain at the border, in Mexico, Mexico can deport them to their point of entry into Mexico. They have no right to force the US to allow them entry.

Sounds like you want to dictate Mexican internal affairs, while claiming you know I am telling you the truth.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7552621.html

Yes, it's true, under treaties and intl. law, we can't reject all asylum seekers.

But the cited article point out something interesting;


That is a loophole, that does give a way to stem the flow. Once they enter legally, through an official entry point, we are required to hear their case. But we can legally deny them entry.

Thus going back to complaining about a problem you create yourself. While I somewhat admire from a strictly games theory perspective your abuse of the law, it is still a abuse. You say "do it legally", then you deny the legal option?

Oh, and whatever happened to the intl. concept that an asylum seeker is entitled to seek asylum in the first country he reaches where he is safe from persecution by the govt. he is fleeing? Wasn't that one of the big argument points about this discussion when it was a hot topic in Europe, and one of the triggers for Brexit?

Nothing happened to it, and Brexit was triggered by right wing nationalists peddling the same "fear of the other" that is the stock in trade of your current president.

Oh, and again, we come into the realm of altered definitions. Asylum was intended to provide an escape for people who have been politically persecuted by the government or other authorities in their home countries. But many of the "asylum seekers" outright claim that they're seeking protection from harsh economic conditions?

I'm sorry, just because your home country's economy is in the tank does not mean you're being persecuted. They are entirely separate things, and there is no legal justification for a nation having to take in folks fleeing a bad economy.

Asylum seekers are a specific category of refugee, and if you look into it more, you will realise that refugee's are just as protected as asylum seekers.

[Chaka-Z0]

Also *it's just an economic crisis, doesn't deserve asylum* is total BS. What do people do when they don't have money or food? They turn to crime / riots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...-stay.amp.html

[magi877]

By "Coming in the front door", I mean showing up at an official point of entry, applying for admittance, and complying with all regulations. Just saying "I want in" doesn't cut it.

For example, afaik, we are currently requiring all applicants to remain in Mexico while they are processed.

And also, afaik, there is no legal requirement that any nation accept anyone as a refugee.

anyone coming in 'the front door' by air or sea is checked for the appropriate visa or their being from a nation that the US does not require a visa from (therefore, that nation is probably one that no one wants to flee from)

so if someone gets a visa and they are from a central american nation, then they are coming here legally to begin with. someone who comes in illegally does not or cannot, obtain a visa.

the 'front door' people come here legally to start with but then may illegally over stay, but they came in the right way at least. illegal entry people are doing nothing by law

[magi877]

Seems Trump took inspiration on refugees and asylum seekers fro the Australian PM

"Pot, meet Kettle"

https://www.thenation.com/article/au...ght-eu-beyond/

[SoulReaver]

If the front door on a house is locked, does that give the burglar the right to pick the lock or pry open a side window? No.

to compare your country to your house, is to compare your Government to the citizens
reality check as your own party keeps reminding everyone you're not a democracy not even a representative one
your Government doesn't give a flyingf about its citizens (except the privileged classes)

[Gatefan1976]

Seems Trump took inspiration on refugees and asylum seekers fro the Australian PM

"Pot, meet Kettle"

https://www.thenation.com/article/au...ght-eu-beyond/

Our immigration policy has been disgraceful long before then.

[Coco Pops]

Did anyone see this?

https://shareblue.com/russia-leak-se...jTmf36aInY1v7k

[Chaka-Z0]

Our immigration policy has been disgraceful long before then.

Just read Magi's article and wow, I knew Australia had strict immigration policies but not that bad. The article also mentions a majority, in the 80% figures, of Australian are against selecting refugees based on religion / ''race''.

Why is this douche still in office then?

[Annoyed]

Just read Magi's article and wow, I knew Australia had strict immigration policies but not that bad. The article also mentions a majority, in the 80% figures, of Australian are against selecting refugees based on religion / ''race''.

Why is this douche still in office then?

And yet, the US is still supposed to be the world's dumping ground.

[Annoyed]

Also *it's just an economic crisis, doesn't deserve asylum* is total BS. What do people do when they don't have money or food? They turn to crime / riots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...-stay.amp.html

Oh, I don't know... Stage a revolution to fix their own country? Rumor has it that has been done before.

[Gatefan1976]

Just read Magi's article and wow, I knew Australia had strict immigration policies but not that bad. The article also mentions a majority, in the 80% figures, of Australian are against selecting refugees based on religion / ''race''.

Why is this douche still in office then?

Oh, he's not, but that policy has been around long before him. Take a deep dive into just how bad it has been here for decades. The stop the boats is just the latest iteration of it.

[Gatefan1976]

And yet, the US is still supposed to be the world's dumping ground.

Not at all.

[SoulReaver]

he's right in a way under their rule the neocons are poised to turn the US into a dump
or rather a ****hole

[Annoyed]

Not at all.

What would you call it when you want us to allow anyone who wants in entry to the country? You don't support any sort of effective security at the borders. You insist that anyone who wants to claim asylum be given asylum, even if they are not fleeing persecution, but merely a lousy economy at home. You also support the idea that we are obligated to provide free food, room & board, cell phones and all the other crap people get under welfare to anyone who shows up at the border.

I have never seen you utter one word defending the US's right to control who is allowed to enter the country.

Your attitude appears to be "Having problems? Migrate to the US illegally and let their taxpayers support you." What would you call it?

[Gatefan1976]

What would you call it when you want us to allow anyone who wants in entry to the country? You don't support any sort of effective security at the borders.

Wrong.
You want effective security, look into the how the vast majority of illegals end up in the USA, which is mainly visa overstays which are generally by sea and air, NOT by illegal border crossings. All I and pretty much all of us are saying is "the wall" is a waste of your money because it will not achieve any decrease in what you want to decrease, and will cost more than other options such as increased border patrols and using satellite or drone technology to detect illegal crossings. Have security, but don't blow your money on a sub-par option.

What you are not getting is that You insist that anyone who wants to claim asylum be given asylum, even if they are not fleeing persecution, but merely a lousy economy at home.

It's the law as you discovered, and as Magi pointed out, a law Australia all but violates with the "no boats" policy. I would say the only reason Australia has not been hauled into the court over it, is because boats in territorial waters are a bit more iffy than a set "port of entry" as you would have in a land crossing.
I don't agree with the policy because it is the same as any countries troops guarding the official ports of entry for Asylum seekers, illegal.

You also support the idea that we are obligated to provide free food, room & board, cell phones and all the other crap people get under welfare to anyone who shows up at the border.

When have I ever said that?
You want to restrict social welfare to registered citizens, I see no problem with that at all. Voting is restricted to registered citizens, why not social aid programs? some -basic- form of it should exist in order to discourage criminal behaviour, but beyond that, that's up to you folks.

I have never seen you utter one word defending the US's right to control who is allowed to enter the country.

I suggest you re-read what I have said in the past, because that is simply not true. At BEST what I have said is you are using a sledgehammer when you need a scalpel, and you need to look into the nuance of the issue to create an effective plan. I have said DREAMERS deserve a PATH to citizenship, not automatic citizenship because the dreamers had no say in being in the country. You want to put them on a 10 year wait-list where they need to keep their noses clean and be productive members of their communities, by all means stipulate it, make it 20, I simply don't care what method you take in order to take away whatever fear of a bunch of mostly kids in order to treat them humanely.

Your attitude appears to be "Having problems? Migrate to the US illegally and let their taxpayers support you." What would you call it?

That's because, like trump you use a sledgehammer when you need a scalpel, and like him, you think you know better than anyone else. Everything your generation got was built on the back of socialist lite ideals like The New Deal, Glass Steagall and Pell Grants. Those three things paved the way for the USA to become the economic powerhouse that it was by using government controls on rampant Capitalism to protect it's CITIZENS to create the conditions for a strong, educated middle class protected by the worst of capitalism while allowing it to use the best aspects of it in order to grow and thrive.
Socialism is not your "enemy", UNCHECKED socialism, much like unchecked capitalism is the danger. Realise that, and you just might make a better country for yourself, and everyone else.