Female Characters

[Spirit]

I'll be frank - I don't know why I didn't like SGA Weir.

I'm honestly not trying to insult the actress, but it could be that I didn't like her specifically. I can understand that some like her... and I'm sure she IS a talented actress, but you know...

Btw - harking back to the SF/SOF discussion, the UK's Special Reconnaissance Regiment, a special forces unit, is one of the few SF units that recruit both males and females. Thought people may be interested. Despite the fact that the majority of SF/SOF are still male dominated/

You have your right to like or dislike a character, that's not insulting at all

You don't know why? Err... Come on. Maybe you're right, maybe you were looking forward to Steen. Maybe you didn't feel Weir because she wasn't very 'sex appeal?' lol ~ Well, let's see, Weir wasn't really a major character if you ask me. She wasn't given much opportunities. Hmmm, did you liked Sam in SG1? I'm trying to help you figure out why you didn't like Weir

What's SF/SOF??

[Skydiver]

Carter was built up from day one has having 'the substance'...

and carter was and still is one of the few exceptions in the science fiction world

[Spirit]

True - but I still don't think its fair to say that ANY of the characters sans Vala have ever been used for sex appeal. Even Teyla.

Guest characters maybe - but then I'm sure a lot of male guest characters have too.

You know I am surprized that majority of the episodes in Stargate didn't try so hard on getting that 'sex appeal' thing going on for male. But instead it's the other way around?? Or am I way over my head here? I mean look at Daniel, he's the goody good husband type guy. And Jack O'Neal is a lot of women's all time favorite, no question about that. And then comes SGA, Shepard is considered "HOT AND SEXY" to a lot of women. Ronan is the suppositely strong, macho, sexy, cool type of guy. And in and out of the two series they have presented a fair amount of 'good looking' characters.

And now why is that exactly? This franchise is quite...odd. But then now SGU.. I can say for sure that they're using 'sex appeal.' I mean look at the female characters... I think some of you find them 'hot,' no? OHH...damn but then one of them is gay.. hmm.. LOL I'm joking........

Oh, on a side note... Some people do find Teyla to be 'sex appeal' - I'm sure some guys digs her type

[Flyboy]

You have your right to like or dislike a character, that's not insulting at all

You don't know why? Err... Come on. Maybe you're right, maybe you were looking forward to Steen. Maybe you didn't feel Weir because she wasn't very 'sex appeal?' lol ~ Well, let's see, Weir wasn't really a major character if you ask me. She wasn't given much opportunities. Hmmm, did you liked Sam in SG1? I'm trying to help you figure out why you didn't like Weir

What's SF/SOF??

Well I've never cared about sex appeal in main characters - (unusual for a male I know) but actually the complete opposite. I detest characters built around sex appeal as I find it insulting and frankly juvenile - that applies to male characters for female audiances as well. I much prefer more normal characters who may or may not gain a thunk following. Look at Mulder and Scully - neither are TYPICALLY attractive, but Scully (Anderson) won sexiest woman on TV I believe.

But in any case.

I think with SGA Weir it was a case of the actress just rubbed me up the wrong way, I didn't like her speeches and much preferred Steen's more candid nature. I think SGA Weir was far too... enthralled by everything, but couldn't pull it off the way Jackson could. Her line in Rising - "but everytime we use this chair we learn more about ... etc etc" (cant remember exact quote), is an example of why she annoys me. She's a diplomat, she should be a little more cynical and less prone to flights of fancy, even if she IS optimistic about change. My opinion? She wasn't a strong enough woman. I guess.

And I liked Carter very much in early SG1. She began to bug the hell out of me in S8 onwards (and a LOT in S9 and 10), but that's another story.

And SF and SOF stand for Special Forces and Special Operations Forces respectively. There was a small discussion beginning on Page 1 of this thread about it, which started with the role of women in SF and SOF.

[Skydiver]

The only reason, IMO , they put Sam to replace Weir was, 1. Sam was probably the "producer's" favorite or 2. she has a big fan base from being in SG1 for the last 10 years!

as much as i like sam, and again this isn't going to turn into 'why weir is gone', i personally think she was moved to atlantis because

a) she was a known character
b) she was an actor that they knew and knew they could work with
c) she was a 'known quantity' performance wise

ie: she was convenient and easy. and her character just happened to be qualified to fulfill that role

[Flyboy]

You know I am surprized that majority of the episodes in Stargate didn't try so hard on getting that 'sex appeal' thing going on for male. But instead it's the other way around?? Or am I way over my head here? I mean look at Daniel, he's the goody good husband type guy. And Jack O'Neal is a lot of women's all time favorite, no question about that. And then comes SGA, Shepard is considered "HOT AND SEXY" to a lot of women. Ronan is the suppositely strong, macho, sexy, cool type of guy. And in and out of the two series they have presented a fair amount of 'good looking' characters.

And now why is that exactly? This franchise is quite...odd. But then now SGU.. I can say for sure that they're using 'sex appeal.' I mean look at the female characters... I think some of you find them 'hot,' no? OHH...damn but then one of them is gay.. hmm.. LOL I'm joking........

Oh, on a side note... Some people do find Teyla to be 'sex appeal' - I'm sure some guys digs her type

Finding a character hot, is different to being used for sex appeal - for one thing, you may notice that John isn't the most toned of men when his shirt comes open in 38 Minutes. He's got a fairly standard guy's body. But many women think he's hot. Yes he has a bit more of a pretty boy look to him than many male characters.

[Spirit]

as much as i like sam, and again this isn't going to turn into 'why weir is gone', i personally think she was moved to atlantis because

a) she was a known character
b) she was an actor that they knew and knew they could work with
c) she was a 'known quantity' performance wise

ie: she was convenient and easy. and her character just happened to be qualified to fulfill that role

Exactly and it does help that she already have such big fan base. But then the character didn't quite fit her in SGA, don't you think? It just... Didn't felt right for some reason. What are your takes on that?

And just on the side note, since you seems to know more about Amanda Tapping, why did she left SGA? Was it because of Sanctuary? That was only my speculation. I'd like some clarification. It still falls under the female characters rule, does it? hehehe

[Spirit]

Finding a character hot, is different to being used for sex appeal - for one thing, you may notice that John isn't the most toned of men when his shirt comes open in 38 Minutes. He's got a fairly standard guy's body. But many women think he's hot. Yes he has a bit more of a pretty boy look to him than many male characters.

I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you. Being hot is a part of sex appeal. What did you have in mind 'sex appeal' meant? It didn't matter if John has a great body or not.. It all depends on what women/men find attractive So in many respect, I categorized it as 'sex appeal.'

[Cherriey]

What??? You silly silly Cherriey... lol This is the exact reason why there SHOULD be more female 'lead' character roles. You'd love it so much (for whatever reason) that you think you live the character!. And that itself helps promote the show, just for having that character in it! And it also helps promote the character that you like. Don't you think? Wouldn't that be even more optimistic? No? Yes? Maybe?

Call me silly/crazy if you will, but I am ok with the way things are progressing. The silver screen has come a long way concerning female characters since its beginning and it continues to grow and change.

[Spirit]

Call me silly/crazy if you will, but I am ok with the way things are progressing. The silver screen has come a long way concerning female characters since its beginning and it continues to grow and change.

I just want to shed some light, like Skydiver said

Thinking like that is why it will be YEARS or longer before we see anything approaching gender equality in scifi. And why it'll be YEARS if ever that we see females treated as more than a support network for the male stars of the show.

If we are gonna even achieve any equality and see females treated as more than just supporting roles, people are gonna have to "WANT" it. I mean otherwise they'll just keep at it the way they are, exactly like what you just said. I just thought I'd point that out, something for you to think about. But then again, if you truly don't care about that then it doesn't really matter I guess.

[Spirit]

I think with SGA Weir it was a case of the actress just rubbed me up the wrong way, I didn't like her speeches and much preferred Steen's more candid nature. I think SGA Weir was far too... enthralled by everything, but couldn't pull it off the way Jackson could. Her line in Rising - "but everytime we use this chair we learn more about ... etc etc" (cant remember exact quote), is an example of why she annoys me. She's a diplomat, she should be a little more cynical and less prone to flights of fancy, even if she IS optimistic about change. My opinion? She wasn't a strong enough woman. I guess.

And I liked Carter very much in early SG1. She began to bug the hell out of me in S8 onwards (and a LOT in S9 and 10), but that's another story.
.

Rubbed you the wrong way huh? I see. I guess I can see that. A combination of things can make a character likable or not likable. And Steen's candid nature? Care to elaborate on that? And who's Jackson?

You think she's not strong enough? In what ways? Curious

[Falcon Horus]

a) she was a known character

After 10 years, one would hope so. And it brings along those that weren't yet watching SGA.

b) she was an actor that they knew and knew they could work with

By that time they were supposed to know who Weir, Teyla and other females were too... Right?

c) she was a 'known quantity' performance wise

Don't know what that means exactly. What does that mean?

ie: she was convenient and easy.

That she was.

...and her character just happened to be qualified to fulfill that role

I don't know about that. Each to his or her own opinion of course.

And who's Jackson?

That would be Doctor Daniel Jackson.

[Probie]

I read the first pages of this topic and my first reaction is: What is the problem with the french accent? It is very nice .... *said a young girl who is French and who looks ridiculous when she tries to speak in english.*
To return to the topic. I think the writers have found it easier for them to write for the male characters. Hey...this is a group of men.
Carter (even if she is a great character) is not treated like other characters. Not talking about Weir and Teyla. They are not really used. To my great regret.
I would have liked to see some sort of Kara Thrace in Stargate. Women are better written in BSG. This is only my humble opinion.

[suse]

That just sums it up. Based upon the response I've gotten so far here. It didn't feel like people cared nor even noticed it.

Really? I thought I said it. Not directly, but the implication was sure there.


(Re: AT directing)

Wow, really? I did not know this...

I just checked. It turns out he directed Double Jeopardy (episode 421) which is almost exactly 3 *years* before Amanda, who had to had them contractually guarantee that she would direct in S7. Even then, they kept pushing her episode back til she *had* to do the last episode filmed of S7 - with 2 days to prep. And she was nominated for a Leo for directing, but she didn't win. Oddly enough, the ep was written by Shanks.

That is actually a very good point. I've been trying to say that Sam is not on the lead role. But people thought otherwise... Even on SGA, she wasn't on the lead role.. She was the "leader" of the Atlantis expedition but not 'lead role.' Yet again you helped me pointed out the obvious.

I think plenty of people got it.

I'll have to agree on that. Sexism is not what I want to promote. I've always thought that male can write a great female character if they put their creative juice at work. I mean of course it'd help for women to write about women to some extend but honestly, I kind of enjoy the occasional touch of a different gender to another gender. It helps keeps it creative, IMO.

Agreed. I was just pointing out the pervasiveness of the problem - women not in leadership roles. I suppose I was taking it beyond just characters. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. It's not so much that a man can't do the job adequately - of course I wasn't saying that. I just find it interesting that there seems to be a 'woman free' zone in the decision-making process at Bridge.

Keeping the network happy? As in the producer and owner, etc? I thought it's more important to keep the audiences happy? The SciFi audience out there is mostly younger males is because there isn't 'enough' female characters. I think people likes to watch shows that they can relate to or surprized by or etc, etc.. I am still curious as to why exactly they cancelled SGA. They said it is because of money matters (correct me if I'm wrong) but I think it's more because they aren't getting enough rating (correct me if I'm wrong again.)

They have to keep the network/studio happy before they can make the audiences happy. And they've said multiple times that they write the show they want to write, not what 'the fans' necessarily want. I can see why, because too many fans want too many different things. What is one person's idea of greatness is a travesty to another. That being said, IMO there can seem to be too much of an admiration society going on and the basics sometimes fall thru the cracks.

No it won't because there are audiences like, myself, who wants more diversity. I will ask for it And I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants that. But I think not enough people see it just quite yet how sexist our television shows still are. (I hope that doesn't offend anyone )

It's nice to see some faith in humanity's potential for change. In this case, it's been beat out of me.

suse

[suse]

Carter was built up from day one has having 'the substance'...

Was she? Amanda's first costume call (I think it was for Broca Divide) had her in tears because they (it's not clear whether they is studio of Bridge - I'll assume studio) wanted her to but on a push-up bra and a tanktop and go model it for the producers. She thought they had hired the wrong woman. The costumer called up and told them she was in tears and they didn't make her.

What would have happened if she had gone along with things? She also told them to just write the character and she would take care of the feminine parts.

Would you also say Vala was meant to have substance?

suse