Female Characters

[Spirit]

Thanks for the explanation of "dire". There are just some things one doesn't know about until the question is asked.

About her accent though... how would we really know how her accent would have evolved? I mean she's lived through all those years and heard the accent of all the people she's around grow and change. Would she have changed with them or developed something uniquely her own? Makes me wonder. For me I figure that gives her some creative license for it. =0) Then again it's Amanda and I'm incredibly forgiving when it comes to her.

Haha, you know Cherriey, I thought about that..she is afterall...centuries old... But I think when it comes to Amanda, we're all so protective of her. I love her don't get me wrong. But as forgiving as I can be...I still find her accent a bit...odd. I mean I can live with it. Maybe it's suppose to be that way? lol....... But still...err either make it all English or American... it's killing me everytime I hear her try to squeak in some English accent.

[Spirit]

And also to be fair.. Stargate franchise is already wayyyy better than Star Trek franchise. There's hardly any female main roles let alone lead. The only lead female character in Star Trek was Janeway in Voyager. So I am ever so grateful for Stargate franchise to always taking the daring step to write something just a little more different than most television. I mean their continuous attempt on bringing in gay character was brilliant.

And you're also right to say that Stargate is predominantly male writers. But I thought they were doing pretty well with Dr. Weir? I think they can relate to female a lot more than they think. And the fact that they had the eyes to have chosen Torri as Dr. Weir... They have so much more potentials IMO

[suse]

Never watched Xena I take it. Although I should check on before or after the title. Or Charmed.

Neither of which are *remotely* science fiction.

I saw a few eps of each. Ick. imo.

suse

[majorsal]

Haha, you know Cherriey, I thought about that..she is afterall...centuries old... But I think when it comes to Amanda, we're all so protective of her. I love her don't get me wrong. But as forgiving as I can be...I still find her accent a bit...odd. I mean I can live with it. Maybe it's suppose to be that way? lol....... But still...err either make it all English or American... it's killing me everytime I hear her try to squeak in some English accent.

do you know the history of helen magnus? being 157 years old and living all over the word *would* make ones accent not pure.

amanda's family did move to canada when she was 3, but her parents and other relatives have british accents.

[Spirit]

do you know the history of helen magnus? being 157 years old and living all over the word *would* make ones accent not pure.

amanda's family did move to canada when she was 3, but her parents and other relatives have british accents.

Yes I did I have "an" idea... I still think, regardless her age, it pains me to hear her try so hard to squeeze in 'English' *cough* accent.

But overall.. I'm glad she has gotten herself a gig all to herself !

[suse]

And also to be fair.. Stargate franchise is already wayyyy better than Star Trek franchise. There's hardly any female main roles let alone lead. The only lead female character in Star Trek was Janeway in Voyager. So I am ever so grateful for Stargate franchise to always taking the daring step to write something just a little more different than most television. I mean their continuous attempt on bringing in gay character was brilliant.

And you're also right to say that Stargate is predominantly male writers. But I thought they were doing pretty well with Dr. Weir? I think they can relate to female a lot more than they think. And the fact that they had the eyes to have chosen Torri as Dr. Weir... They have so much more potentials IMO

As you mentioned, Janeway. Kira wasn't lead, but she was 2nd in command of Babylon5DS9. Hardly an on-the-sidelines role.



Exactly who is lead on Stargate? No woman I see. They apparently (according to N John Smith at a Creation Con) treated Amanda as lead when Richard Dean Anderson wasn't there. Note what happens as soon as they have a full-time male lead/first in credits.

On SGA, sure, Weir lead the expedition. Unless the military leader - played by the male lead/first in credits - decided the decision fell under his purview, then it was his decision. Face it, the show was about the expedition fighting a life-sucking alien species. When wasn't is about military safety? Sorry, wasn't a fan of Weir, at least as played by Torri. I'm fairly certain much of that was TPTB imo taking away her backbone to advance the leading man. But not all of it.

No, I don't think there will ever be a female lead. Sure, at least some of the problem comes from the studios, but you might want to take a look at the credits for SG-1/SGA (and soon, I daresay, SGU). Note the number of women producers/writers/directors.

Here's a hint. In over 200 eps of SG-1, one woman directed - once. Amanda Tapping, who had it written into her contract to be able to do so. SGA had one woman direct also - in S1. Sure, I expect the behind the scenes to still be skewed to men, but seriously, two women/two eps in over 300 episodes?

I think I saw one woman co-producer on SGA. And there were a few women writers. Very few, and they disappeared completely years ago.

ETA: Please understand, I don't think any decisions were malicious. I just think each time it came time to hire someone new they decided to go with more of the same of what they already had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate

suse

[majorsal]

Yes I did I have "an" idea... I still think, regardless her age, it pains me to hear her try so hard to squeeze in 'English' *cough* accent.

But overall.. I'm glad she has gotten herself a gig all to herself !

better not continue watching with all the pain it's giving you.

so female characters and leading on stargate... hmm, great idea. ain't going to happen.

[Spirit]

better not continue watching with all the pain it's giving you.

so female characters and leading on stargate... hmm, great idea. ain't going to happen.

That's going to be hard I like Amanda So you think not having female leading character on Stargate is a great idea?

[PG15]

And also to be fair.. Stargate franchise is already wayyyy better than Star Trek franchise. There's hardly any female main roles let alone lead. The only lead female character in Star Trek was Janeway in Voyager. So I am ever so grateful for Stargate franchise to always taking the daring step to write something just a little more different than most television. I mean their continuous attempt on bringing in gay character was brilliant.

Just in the main cast:

Original series: 1 black women. This was in the 60s. There were also at least 2 recurring female characters.

The Next Generation: 3 women in the first 2 seasons, 2 in the next 5.

Deep Space Nine: 2 women for all seasons

Voyager: 3 women, one of them being THE lead.

Enterprise: 2 women.

You were saying?

[Phenom]

i think i know what you mean. like, instead of jack o'neill, jaclyn o'neill?

i consider sam a leading character, but 'female' leading character. but would stargate ever let a 'woman' lead the entire thing (show & team)? with these writers, i doubt it.

(sooooooooo glad amanda's got her shot as *lead* in sanctuary )

Out of interest, is Sanctuary any good??? And is AT any good in it??

On the topic, I read in a previous post about lead fmles not being what the target demographic of males 18-30 or whatever want. I am in that category (just) and I don't care if the lead is male, female, talking dog or cartoon carrier pigeon.....I just want great stories and interesting characters. Stargate can do great female characters, I guess the ensemble nature in a way makes who is a 'lead' a bit grey sometimes.

[Coela Bellatore]

Out of interest, is Sanctuary any good??? And is AT any good in it??

Some episodes were great and some were incredibly stupid in my opinion. They seemed to either do something different and interesting or rely on every cliche and deus ex machina in the book.

I liked 5,6,7,8,9,11, and Watson in 12+13.

[Flyboy]

SOF and SF are pretty much used interchangeably they have no hard and fast definitions. Special Forces also don't fit into 3 tiers neatly anymore because they bleed over. The best way to classify them now would be by the jobs they do. I don't think anyone here is really interested in that though, I can post it on request though.


All. Except for two GROM women I have never met. Women are brought along sometimes to search females in Afghanistan but ALL special forces that involve combat are firmly in manland and this applies to every special forces despite the country.

I disagree - and I appreicate that you have experience with these units, but the tiers till exist and are useful labels. The SAS and SBS for example are both a Tier 1 and Tier 2 unit. But we shouldn't dismiss the tier system because of that.

I also completely disagree that SOF and SF should just be accepted as inter changeable, just because many use it that way - such an attitude is born of ignorance (note not saying YOU are ignorant, but many are who can't be bothered to learn the difference). The British Special Forces Support Group (SFSG) is very much SOF, and can not ever be said to be SF at all. They differ vastly in size to the SAS or SBS as well, and in the manner of operations they undertake. For another example, I'm sure you would agree with me that there is a collosal difference between US Rangers - who are essentially an elite infantry unit specialising in raiding operations (SOF) and Delta Force who are Special Forces.

I do however agree that the jobs used help define them, but that largely fits them into the tier system - you also can't overlook HOW they do their jobs.

The definitions exist, I've outlined them, it's just most people can't be bothered to study the subject in significant detail. As for many all they want to know is SF/SOF = Cool.

[Spirit]

Just in the main cast:

Original series: 1 black women. This was in the 60s. There were also at least 2 recurring female characters.

The Next Generation: 3 women in the first 2 seasons, 2 in the next 5.

Deep Space Nine: 2 women for all seasons

Voyager: 3 women, one of them being THE lead.

Enterprise: 2 women.

You were saying?

PG15, I think you're missing my point here. You're comparing these numbers to what? I'm speaking of lead characters. And you realize all these numbers you have just put out does not show how many male characters there were. Male characters won't be so easy to count as female characters since there are way more, don't you think? So could you show me the percentage of female representations in these shows you presented? Cause as far as I know, in general population, there's at least 50% women

Let me ask you. 1 black woman? What about that 1 black woman? Is she suppose to represent something? And of what? And you're pointing out this 1 black woman out of how many people were on the cast? 2 reoccurring female characters? Yes, and what about them?

Like I said, the point of this topic is "THE LEAD" character being female. I mean, just because they are THERE and REOCCURRING, it doesn't mean they are lead. Let me ask you a trick question. Who's the lead character in the movie "Batman and Robin?" Is it Robin, Batgirl, or Batman?

Look, my point being that most of these women you've mentioned does not carry the "lead" role, with the exception of Janeway, exactly what I've been talking about. All the other women roles that you've mentioned are either supporting roles or side kicks.

I guess I'm trying to point out the stigma of Women leaders being seen as weak and lacking leadership, therefore often not used as lead in some of the series. And yes Janeway did a fabulous job in overturning such stigma, however, is ONE Janeway enough to represent alllllll the scifi's out there? And let me point out that after Janeway, there is no other Janeway. Enterprise is the current Star Trek serie, and yet again, another male lead character, why? Was Janeway, The Voyager, not a successful show?

This isn't just about womanhood or having woman as predominant of anything. I'm just more curious of what you guys think of the lack of women 'lead' roles. But based on what I've read so far, it doesn't even seem like anyone cares. Why not? Because you guys are so used to seeing certain things on television?

It's fair for me to say that as a viewer myself, I'd like to see more women characters, not just as a side kick or supporting roles. But to have more creation and diversity in terms of what they can create out of both male and female. I mean you have to admit, most often than not, female character are presented mainly to attract male, lol, is it not? There are female audiences out there that wants to be able to relate. Women are more than motherhood or weakling, or an object of attraction for men... You get the point.

[Flyboy]

PG15, I think you're missing my point here. You're comparing these numbers to what? I'm speaking of lead characters. And you realize all these numbers you have just put out does not show how many male characters there were. Male characters won't be so easy to count as female characters since there are way more, don't you think? So could you show me the percentage of female representations in these shows you presented? Cause as far as I know, in general population, there's at least 50% women

Let me ask you. 1 black woman? What about that 1 black woman? Is she suppose to represent something? And of what? And you're pointing out this 1 black woman out of how many people were on the cast? 2 reoccurring female characters? Yes, and what about them?

Like I said, the point of this topic is "THE LEAD" character being female. I mean, just because they are THERE and REOCCURRING, it doesn't mean they are lead. Let me ask you a trick question. Who's the lead character in the movie "Batman and Robin?" Is it Robin, Batgirl, or Batman?

Look, my point being that most of these women you've mentioned does not carry the "lead" role, with the exception of Janeway, exactly what I've been talking about. All the other women roles that you've mentioned are either supporting roles or side kicks.

I guess I'm trying to point out the stigma of Women leaders being seen as weak and lacking leadership, therefore often not used as lead in some of the series. And yes Janeway did a fabulous job in overturning such stigma, however, is ONE Janeway enough to represent alllllll the scifi's out there? And let me point out that after Janeway, there is no other Janeway. Enterprise is the current Star Trek serie, and yet again, another male lead character, why? Was Janeway, The Voyager, not a successful show?

This isn't just about womanhood or having woman as predominant of anything. I'm just more curious of what you guys think of the lack of women 'lead' roles. But based on what I've read so far, it doesn't even seem like anyone cares. Why not? Because you guys are so used to seeing certain things on television?

It's fair for me to say that as a viewer myself, I'd like to see more women characters, not just as a side kick or supporting roles. But to have more creation and diversity in terms of what they can create out of both male and female. I mean you have to admit, most often than not, female character are presented mainly to attract male, lol, is it not? There are female audiences out there that wants to be able to relate. Women are more than motherhood or weakling, or an object of attraction for men... You get the point.

Actually, it's because I'm so used to seeing men in these positions in reality...

Yes you get women, which is why I have no issue with Janeway, but they're not that common. The amount of women on my squadron is quite low, with only one in a position of leadership - and that's not the senior level.

[Spirit]

As you mentioned, Janeway. Kira wasn't lead, but she was 2nd in command of Babylon5DS9. Hardly an on-the-sidelines role.

What do you mean by on-the-sidelines role?

Exactly who is lead on Stargate? No woman I see. They apparently (according to N John Smith at a Creation Con) treated Amanda as lead when Richard Dean Anderson wasn't there. Note what happens as soon as they have a full-time male lead/first in credits.

I agree.. And people keep saying that Sam was the lead role, then I'm curious as to what Teal'c and Daniel were? Were they supporting roles? What about Mitchel? Was he supporting role too? According to Amanda's interview with GateWorld..She even said it herself that she wishes there were more "leadership" roles for her.

On SGA, sure, Weir lead the expedition. Unless the military leader - played by the male lead/first in credits - decided the decision fell under his purview, then it was his decision. Face it, the show was about the expedition fighting a life-sucking alien species. When wasn't is about military safety? Sorry, wasn't a fan of Weir, at least as played by Torri. I'm fairly certain much of that was TPTB imo taking away her backbone to advance the leading man. But not all of it.

You're not a fan of Weir?? How come? I'm curious

And no, she did not get the lead role in SGA, Sherpard was. And like you said, she was mainly controlled by male character as in the military but I don't have comment on that.. As military in general is predominant with male...

No, I don't think there will ever be a female lead. Sure, at least some of the problem comes from the studios, but you might want to take a look at the credits for SG-1/SGA (and soon, I daresay, SGU). Note the number of women producers/writers/directors.

Honestly, I think things are changing.. Audiences wants to see more women on the cast and it also shows how quickly they become popular too. And I am seeing more changes these days, hints: Amanda on Sanctuary.. But I think that's only because she had so much fan who followed her from SG1. And she became very popular, so they want her to carry over the fame Why create a new pool of audiences when they already exist, right? Afterall that is why they hire well known actor/actress, isn't it? i.e. Richard Dean Anderson.

Well, frankly, I don't read the credits, ever... So I wouldn't know. I only can judge on things I see in the show, hehe. So you can be the expert on that.

Here's a hint. In over 200 eps of SG-1, one woman directed - once. Amanda Tapping, who had it written into her contract to be able to do so. SGA had one woman direct also - in S1. Sure, I expect the behind the scenes to still be skewed to men, but seriously, two women/two eps in over 300 episodes?

I agree and thanks for shedding the light into it. That is exactly what I've been talking about. And just to be fair, I think male writers can do a pretty good job writing a female character, a lot more than they think they can. Afterall...Sci-Fi is no reality~ They need to crank up their creative juice

I think I saw one woman co-producer on SGA. And there were a few women writers. Very few, and they disappeared completely years ago.

Seems like you are very aware of what happens"behind-the-scene." I don't pay as much attention to that. So you'll have to educate me on that aspect.

ETA: Please understand, I don't think any decisions were malicious. I just think each time it came time to hire someone new they decided to go with more of the same of what they already had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate

I just think if they really want to bring in more audiences, they better start cracking and change things up a bit. I hope that SGU will be something different rather than more of the same like you've mentioned.