General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[brihana25]

First off, I appreciate how considerate you've been about my feelings and thoughts. *hugs*

Not a problem, dear. Not a problem. And the same to you.

I feel that the writers have been planning, to some sorts, to bring Sam and Jack together. From my eyes -and many other shippers- the ptb have been shipping them since the beginning. So I can't feel that they're trying to please one group of fans over another, because I think they're just going along with the same plan they have been playing for years. I 'do' feel, though, that the ptb were taken by surprise after D&C by just how many ppl wanted/liked S/J ship, so that might have been the beginning of actually thinking about resolving the ship with them 'together'.

I do agree that the UST was intended to be there all along - absolutely. And I do agree that playing in the AUs was done intentionally, and their reactions to finding out that they were involved in the other realities were priceless. I think that they could be shipped was intentional.

But myself, and only for myself, I don't believe Jonathan Glassner ever intended it to go any further than that, and I don't believe it's a cooincidence that immediately after his departure, we had three episodes (D&C, WoO, and BtS) that all pushed the envelope with J/S much further than it had ever gone before.

Of course, we'll never know exactly what Mr. Glassner intended for Jack and Sam, because if it *was* different than the direction Brad Wright went, he's far too polite to say anything about that.

I'm not too thrilled with having to inherit the legacy of this fighting either. If Sam and Jack get together at the end, certain ppl will strike out. If they don't, certain ppl will strike out. And THAT'S what I hate about this fandom more than anything else.

*sigh*

You and me both, but hey... we're not fighting, are we? We're talking, just like we've always done. And maybe it's just the two of us, but it still means something. At the very least, it shows that it can be done without fighting.

All I know is I got fed up and left -them and the show- and I can't do that with Sam and Jack.

I've pretty well walked away from ER too, after 9 1/2 years. If you'd asked me at the beginning of last season if I would ever turn my back on Carter and Abby, I'd have said no. That since *I* knew they still loved each other, that *I* would never walk away from them.

A lot can happen in 22 episodes, especially when you don't feel any desire to watch the last ten of them.

But what If they're just following the storyline they've been writing for years? What if the writers aren't looking at it like which side wins, but just that they're resolving a storyline that's been playing since the beginning. I don't like S/P ship, but I know they're not doing it personally against me as an S/J shipper.

I honestly don't know. I don't know if I can ever "believe" them again, to tell the truth. After D&C, they said that it had been dealt with and that it was over. They said the same thing after Grace. They've said repeatedly through the years that it can't and won't ever happen onscreen.

But it's still showing up, 4 years after they said it was over.

If Sam and Jack get together at the end -fishing invite or whatever- I won't be going to anti-shipper places and flaunting it. I 'will' be able to enjoy my happiness, as long as I don't tread in places that aren't exclusively S/J ship. Though I'll prob hear bragging from some shippers that'll say, 'see, we told you it would happen, so you should have had faith and not whined about it.' So in that aspect, I guess I 'will' have to deal with it.

I know you won't react that way. I know that most J/S'ers won't react that way. All I can say is that if it happens, I'll do my d*mndest to be happy for you, no matter what. But even that I can't promise. I've screwed up before - just ask JoLeigh.

Maybe this will help, though. I do feel much better, overall, as a result of this conversation, so maybe it'll be easier for me if I do end up hurting in the end.

Not only is it mean, it would be destroying part of their show -fandom and the franchise.

Oh, RCC has said recently that he's tired of SG-1. He thinks they're out of stories, he thinks to Goa'uld are laughable, he thinks it's run its course.

Those don't really sound like the words of a man who cares about "his" fandom in the slightest.

[Jace021903]

Just something I found interesting about when the writers intended for there to be "something" between Sam and Jack.


On one of the recent DVD commentaries, Rob Cooper said that the writers couldn't be blamed for J/S ship because the actors started it. He said the writers started taking notice and thinking about taking it further during the filming of "Out of Mind" and the scene in the hall when Jack holds Sam for just a bit too long.

[Jonisa]

The only thing is does affect, if Sam and Jack get together, is that it means that Jack and Daniel won't be snogging behind a tree.

Heh. I think you're wrong about that. We'll still see it in fanfic.

Seriously, the only place that we have ever and will ever see Jack and Daniel "snogging behind a tree" is in fanfic, of course. And if you think a little thing like Sam and Jack getting together is going to stop the slash fanfic writers...uh...I don't think so. Sam and Jack could have a huge wedding on the Gateroom ramp during the last episode and the slash writers would still find a way to get Jack and Daniel together.

Which is fine, IMHO. It's all for fun anyway. I haven't seen any slash writers saying that Jack/Daniel is canon. The friendship, yes, the intimate relationship, no. I love fanfic, and I've read all kinds. People are going to write what they want to, whether it's slash, or ship, or gen, and the fact that Jack/Daniel isn't and never will be canon hasn't stopped the slash writers yet, and it certainly won't in the future. And I don't think they should feel they have to stop, no matter what happens with Sam & Jack.

Back to the ship issue. I have made a personal decision that this ship business isn't worth me getting all worked up about. From lurking in different places I've seen unpleasant comments from both "sides", and it is unfortunate that the fandom is so divided.

It helps me to put the whole thing in perspective. If I don't care for the ship (and I don't), there's lots of other things about the show I do like, so I concentrate on those. Ship only bugs me when it threatens to overshadow everything, and IMO it veered perilously close to that in the latter half of Season 7. Season 8 so far has been better as far as that goes, so I have no complaints. If there are shippy moments coming up, and I'm sure there are, I'll just hope they're few and far between so I can just ff past those and focus on the rest of the ep. Works for me.

ETA: Hey, I'm a mature symbiote! Cool!

[brihana25]

ETA: Hey, I'm a mature symbiote! Cool!

Congrats! Pretty soon, you'll be Jaffa Fodder.

[epiphany]

I don't like ship and I don't read or write slash and never have. I don't have anything against it though. I also don't read ship. But no slashers I've ever known have ever thought it should appear on the show(quite the opposite in fact, they see what they've done with S/J ship and want the writers to stay as far as possible away from their own preferred pairing) There are many reasons for someone to not like Jack and Sam ship that have nothing to do with Daniel and Jack snogging in the gateroom or behind a tree.

[Dani347]

I don't like ship and I don't read or write slash and never have. I don't have anything against it though. I also don't read ship. But no slashers I've ever known have ever thought it should appear on the show(quite the opposite in fact, they see what they've done with S/J ship and want the writers to stay as far as possible away from their own preferred pairing) There are many reasons for someone to not like Jack and Sam ship that have nothing to do with Daniel and Jack snogging in the gateroom or behind a tree.

That is the most aggravating accusation that people can make to anyone who dares to say they don't like J/S ship. I also don't read slash. I don't even care to have Jack and Daniel snogging in the fanfics I read (although, I don't have any problems with those who do write it. Just like I don't have a problem with people who write J/S ship fic). I'm a gen reader, and I want friendship among the teammates on the show. I believe J/S the way it's written comes in between the friendships. Some of you may not agree, but please don't presume to tell people that what they really want is slash on the show. Or to tell them what they really want is anything but what they've said. It's highly insulting. (It's not slash itself that's insulting, if someone said that the only thing J/S does is keep Sam from snogging Teal'c, or Sam snogging Daniel, or keep Jack from joining the priesthood later, anything except for what people say, even if you disagree)

[Jace021903]

That is the most aggravating accusation that people can make to anyone who dares to say they don't like J/S ship. I also don't read slash. I don't even care to have Jack and Daniel snogging in the fanfics I read (although, I don't have any problems with those who do write it. Just like I don't have a problem with people who write J/S ship fic). I'm a gen reader, and I want friendship among the teammates on the show. I believe J/S the way it's written comes in between the friendships. Some of you may not agree, but please don't presume to tell people that what they really want is slash on the show. Or to tell them what they really want is anything but what they've said. It's highly insulting. (It's not slash itself that's insulting, if someone said that the only thing J/S does is keep Sam from snogging Teal'c, or Sam snogging Daniel, or keep Jack from joining the priesthood later, anything except for what people say, even if you disagree)

Very well said, Dani

[majorsal]

You and me both, but hey... we're not fighting, are we? We're talking, just like we've always done. And maybe it's just the two of us, but it still means something. At the very least, it shows that it can be done without fighting.

*nods* Yes, Bri. Just a bit of restraint and some kindness can go a long way.

I know you won't react that way. I know that most J/S'ers won't react that way. All I can say is that if it happens, I'll do my d*mndest to be happy for you, no matter what. But even that I can't promise. I've screwed up before - just ask JoLeigh.

(((((((((bri))))))))))

I remember how horrible you felt about JoLeigh's situation. And it showed a LOT of what kind of person you are. That's when you wrote that incredible post on OS that got me responding. I'll always remember it too. For you, I hope all your hopes and desires for Daniel's character come true.

Maybe this will help, though. I do feel much better, overall, as a result of this conversation, so maybe it'll be easier for me if I do end up hurting in the end.

I hope, IF I get what I want as an S/J shipper at the end, you don't feel bad. I wish it didn't matter to you so much, but that's like me saying I wish I wasn't so distressed by S/P ship. Easier said than done, eh.

Oh, RCC has said recently that he's tired of SG-1. He thinks they're out of stories, he thinks to Goa'uld are laughable, he thinks it's run its course.

Those don't really sound like the words of a man who cares about "his" fandom in the slightest.

RCC confuses me. A lot.

Sally

[majorsal]

Just something I found interesting about when the writers intended for there to be "something" between Sam and Jack.


On one of the recent DVD commentaries, Rob Cooper said that the writers couldn't be blamed for J/S ship because the actors started it. He said the writers started taking notice and thinking about taking it further during the filming of "Out of Mind" and the scene in the hall when Jack holds Sam for just a bit too long.

Yes, I'd read that too. So does that mean that what Martin Wood said years ago about the ptb liking the chemistry between them in Solitudes, and that 'it's my sidearm, I swear' was the beginning of it... I've also read other opinions on when it officially started. Lots of contradicting. I saw sparkage between Sam and Jack in the first ep -really hit home in the fourth ep Broca Divide - so maybe some of the ptb are just trying to pinpoint exactly when they, the writers, decided to take it seriously? I don't know, other than I took it seriously from the get-go.

Sally

[stargate barbie]

i've heard from people who were directing and writing and producing from the start that the chemistry and the potential for s/j ship was there from season 1.
was RCC working on the show back in season 1?

RCC confuses me too sometimes.

[Jace021903]

i've heard from people who were directing and writing and producing from the start that the chemistry and the potential for s/j ship was there from season 1.
was RCC working on the show back in season 1?

RCC confuses me too sometimes.

BW and RCC have been there from the beginning.

JM and PM joined in season 4

PdL in season 2

DK became a regular in season 6

I don't know about Martin Wood. Anyone?

[keshou]

BW and RCC have been there from the beginning.
JM and PM joined in season 4
PdL in season 2
DK became a regular in season 6
I don't know about Martin Wood. Anyone?

Well I know Martin directed "Solitudes" which was in the first season. He mentioned it in an interview. Think he's been in their regular rotation of directors since at least season 2.

[keshou]

RCC confuses me too sometimes.

I think we've finally found something on which we may ALL agree!

________________

[Shipperahoy]

I'm pretty sure that Martin came on board around the same time as PDL probably a wee bit before. The comments coming from TPTB confuse me sometimes too and I think that's the point. They want to walk the tightrope until it's time for it all to hang out. Most of the interviews seem more ambiguous than usual this season. Nobody is committing to anything, especially where ship is concerned. There are some interviews that sound ship positive and others that sound quite the opposite. I tend to take the interviews with a grain of salt anyway. I'll just wait and see what happens.

[DarkQuee1]

[QUOTE=Gategrrl]Gee, a more-holier-than-thou 'tude towards others who have left the fold... whups, missed the smiley face at the end there. Were you really kidding there? Or is that a real attitude amongst J&S shippers?[ /QUOTE]

Not holier-than-thou at all. I was merely responding to threats that the anti-shippers would be doing their best to make shippers miserable. Be assured, that if someone does try to engage in that behavior with me, I will most certainly put them on ignore. I see no reason to indulge them.

And I suppose the reason it's S/J is becuz the "ship" is all in Sam's head, and Jack is as unresponsive to her as an ice cube?

First, shippers don't see it that way. In fact, we feel that until recently, Jack has been the more openly shippy of the two.

Second, is this just your opinion, or is this the way anti-shippers feel in general? I'm not being sarcastic here; I ask, because there seems to be a certain inconsistency of opinion. If, in fact, Jack does not harbor shippy feelings toward Sam ("unresponsive to her as an ice cube")--as your comment suggests you believe--then how could ship be responsible for interfering with Jack and Daniel's friendship (or any other friendships on the show), as has been repeatedly claimed? There's no ship on Jack's part and thus could not have any effect on Jack and Daniel's relationship.

Another example of inconsistency: there were a ton of anti-Jack comments after "Grace", that his behavior was disgraceful and ridiculous, and all because Sam was missing. Leaving aside the fact that I don't agree in that assessment of Jack's behavior, if ship is all in Sam's head and Jack doesn't care at all, then I guess there would have to be another reason for Jack's presumed disgraceful behavior in Grace, wouldn't there?

Third, are you seriously suggesting that Sam is making it all up?

Fourth, RDA said that the "titilating tapdance" between Sam and Jack would need to be addressed. I guess *he* doesn't think it's all in Sam's head.

Fifth, as to putting Sam first, for many shippers, she's their favorite character. And besides, we know that Jack would say, "Ladies first."


J.