General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[Jace021903]

I've read messages from shippers where it's like they're owed something for the years of will they/won't they by TPTB. In the end, for some anti-shippers (and I include myself in this), it's almost as though it's not the ship we dislike but the those who think they're owed. Fortunately, these ones seem to be in a minority around GW.

That's an interesting point. In some places there is a lot of animonsity between shippers and antishipper. This particular thread has been really a nice change of pace for the most part.

I know there are shippers who blame the antishippers for making the PTB tone down the ship and there are antishippers who wish the shippers would stop asking for more. But at the end of the day, I think the PTB are going to do what they want to do with an occasional wink or nod toward the internet fans.

[Karibou]

And, frankly, the fact that Stargate has stuff to please other people really has no bearing on whether I like something. Seriously, and since I've said before that I'm a selfish tv viewer I might as well not pull any punches, I couldn't care less about the other fan bases. I couldn't care less about any other fan when it comes to what I like or hate. It's all about numero uno. Those other fan bases (even fans who agree with me) aren't sitting with me when I watch the show. Not that I'd care if they were. And, I'm not sharing my body as a lifeboat with them. And, who does it hurt (and it doesn't hurt me) if I hate J/S ship with every fiber of my being? Really, who?

Hate to say it, but, apparently it did hurt you -- and lots of other fans, shippers and antishippers alike. Fact is, there are people who stopped watching, either because they hated the way that ship was "dominating" the plots, or the way that the "owed" ship resolution was denied to fans. Both sides felt they had a gripe and both got mad. Ratings fell, and here we are. No SG-1 at all.

I'm proud to be a shipper, but certainly not a militant one. I respect the views of other fan bases. And I certainly find many other reasons to watch the show when there's no ship to speak of. Personally, I love the way the writers tweak the shipper's noses once in a while. But there are others who are very upset by it -- upset enough to stop watching.

I think that the writers' biggest mistake was straddling the ship fence for so long. They didn't want to irritate either side and instead irritated both -- enough to cause permanant damage, apparently. I think all of us would have felt better if we'd have gotten some closure -- one way or another -- so we could move on with things.

Personally, I think it's impossible to do any sort of long-running show and have there not be some sort of ship in it. Let's face it, love is a fundamental motivator for characters. It's a basic part of the human condition. Any show which has main characters of opposite genders (or, like in Buffy, same-sex oriented characters) is eventually going to run into this fact. But, it's how the ship is written that makes it interesting. Shows with a significant male component to the audience often try this half-a$$ed, "let's have ship without having ship" crap. It never makes anyone happy.

I wish writers would realize that it is possible to do ship tastefully without making it blatant or sappy. It's possible to make it part of the show without dominating the show. I think BSG is a great example of that. Love and lust are a HUGE part of character motivations, but so completely NOT the most important thing going on. It adds to the story rather than detracting from it.

In any event, I feel terrible that the whole ship debate probably had something to do with the demise of SG-1. Let's hope that Robert Cooper can pull a genie out of some dusty old lamp in the Bridge Studio's prop department and give my favorite show of all time some fresh life.

Shippers and Anti-shippers, UNITE TO SAVE SG-1! Show solidarity!!

[Gate gal]

I don't think the ship/antiship debate hurt SG1 too badly. Most shippers (me) love the show for more than just the ship. I believe most antishippers feel the same way. Sure, some people may have given up and stopped watching, but look at all the new viewers.

I do believe that the shippers and antishippers need to unite to save our show, and I think we are doing just that. Honestly, we all want what we want, and none of us will get everything we desire; but the show is still one of the best on television. The fact that we even care about whether or not there are ships is proof that we all have strong attachments to SG1. I just hope this isn't the end. Ten years may be a good run, but I think there are a lot more stories to tell.

[Dani347]

I don't believe the ship debate is responsible (if not completely, even in a large part) for the demise of Stargate. You go to forums for any tv show, and there's bound to be a ship debate. Because, in broad terms, there are some people that feel that shows can't go on without ship, and others who disagree. And, these debates start as early as the first or second seasons, and the shows still last a long time.


Besides, the J/S ship, which pretty much started the whole debate, was blatantly referenced to way back in season 4. (and some would argue hints were there earlier) I doubt that enough people who had a problem with ship to stop watching only stopped this season, when the issue has been there all along.

And, I'd better stop this message right here.

[Shep'sSocks]

I don't think it's in any way responsible for the demise of the show. I think it got dumped because Skiffy weren't happy with the ratings.

[Jace021903]

I don't think it's in any way responsible for the demise of the show. I think it got dumped because Skiffy weren't happy with the ratings.

Yes, and since Atlantis has had nearly the same ratings this year and was still renewed, I think it has much more to do with the cost of producing Stargate in relationship to the ratings it is pulling in now.

I read opinions about the changes in season 9 being the reason for the drop in ratings but then why would Atlantis also experience such a big drop? I just think it is more complicated than one particular issue. On the other hand, if Atlantis' rating are so tied to SG-1, then they could be in for a rough next season.

Time will tell.

[Shep'sSocks]

Yes, and since Atlantis has had nearly the same ratings this year and was still renewed, I think it has much more to do with the cost of producing Stargate in relationship to the ratings it is pulling in now.

I read opinions about the changes in season 9 being the reason for the drop in ratings but then why would Atlantis also experience such a big drop? I just think it is more complicated than one particular issue. On the other hand, if Atlantis' rating are so tied to SG-1, then they could be in for a rough next season.

Time will tell.

Too true. I wonder how much the ratings were tied to BSG? Or perhaps SG-1's time to go has simply come. At any rate, nowt to do with ship (as long as they don't head over to Atlantis and do the whole will they/won't they nonsense).

[Easter Lily]

I find it strange that anyone would think that ship is responsible for SG-1's demise. I've spent far too much time on GW the last few days reading about the cancellation and this is the first time that someone has raised that as a reason. If anything, shippers often hang on to the hope that they will get some kind of resolution. But I'm no expert...

While I didn't care much for Sam and Jack, it didn't put me off enough to stop watching the show. Fortunately it was a small part of the show.

[NightGloom]

As much as I hate ship in most shows (except for House/ Wilson slash and I'm still hanging onto Charlie/ Claire in Lost), I don't think that it's the cause of any sort of drop in the ratings in SG-1. I haven't stopped watching SG-1 because of Sam/ Jack. There are certain episodes that I won't watch again, but I'll always watch the new ones. And I think shippers sometimes watch new episodes hoping that there will be some sort of reference to Sam/ Jack or whatever ship they prefer. Ship can be used as a copout in television shows sometimes or as a ploy for ratings (X-Files, anyone?) and it's usually as a last resort and the writing is usually atrocious. SG-1's writing has gone downhill, but they haven't resorted to doing solely romantic relationship-centric episodes.

[Karibou]

As much as I hate ship in most shows (except for House/ Wilson slash and I'm still hanging onto Charlie/ Claire in Lost), I don't think that it's the cause of any sort of drop in the ratings in SG-1. I haven't stopped watching SG-1 because of Sam/ Jack. There are certain episodes that I won't watch again, but I'll always watch the new ones. .

LOL... I feel exactly the same way, but from the opposite side of the debate. (e.g., I find nothing redeeming in Chimera and will probably never watch it again!)

Actually, now that I've read today's article here on GW, I think I agree that the ship debate had less to do with the show's demise than I originally thought -- though I do think it (combined with RDA's departure) contributed to a decline in ratings. But the cancellation really doesn't have much to do with ratings -- not really. By the looks of things, it's a dollar war. SciFi doesn't wanna pay for the licensing and MGM doesn't wanna drop its price. Thus, the fans (shippers and non-shippers alike) get screwed.

And we seem to agree on one thing. Let's pray the whole stupid, non-resolved ships on SG-1 are resolved one way or another before it ends forever. I'd HATE to think of this debate continuing with guest appearances on Atlantis. *shudder.*

It's so disappointing, really. We all love the show. Maybe the estimated two million weekly viewers could all pitch in and send two bucks to MGM or SciFi to blatantly bribe them into either keeping the show on next season or releasing the contract so it can go elsewhere!

[JackandSamAddict]

As much as I hate ship in most shows (except for House/ Wilson slash and I'm still hanging onto Charlie/ Claire in Lost), I don't think that it's the cause of any sort of drop in the ratings in SG-1. I haven't stopped watching SG-1 because of Sam/ Jack. There are certain episodes that I won't watch again, but I'll always watch the new ones. And I think shippers sometimes watch new episodes hoping that there will be some sort of reference to Sam/ Jack or whatever ship they prefer. Ship can be used as a copout in television shows sometimes or as a ploy for ratings (X-Files, anyone?) and it's usually as a last resort and the writing is usually atrocious. SG-1's writing has gone downhill, but they haven't resorted to doing solely romantic relationship-centric episodes.

I do like the ship in the show, though I DON'T only watch for the ship, there are other aspects that I like in the show, such as the teamness (lacking in current seasons) and of course the Sci-fi aspect of the show...I also think that some shows were ruined by getting there ship (some ppl., like me DIDN'T want M&S to get together on x-files) and CC said would never happen, but anyway....that is a rant for another day, but I in no way see that the ship has caused a downfall in the show, I just think that Sci-Fi is too worried about ratings...that is it IMHO

[poundpuppy29]

I like ships and I like Sci-fi. They can work together with out ruining a show, a very good example is Babylon 5 Delenn and Sheridan. Sci-fi can bring something of another layer to ships that regular shows can't from what I can see. I don't understand how some people are Anti Ship period that is so limiting IMHO. I understand if you are against certain ships because of your prefered ship but I say you can have what ever you want in your AU and nobody's wrong and nobody's right just different. I believe in Ship and let Ship as long as mine can happen yours can happen we can have differing opinions but we don't take it personal and respect each other. I hope I didn't offend anyone those who are Anti Ship I don't get it but I respect your position as long as you respect mine.

I wrote this in another thread and someone alerted me to this one I hope we can all remain civilized and have a healthy discussion.

[racer24t]

I hope they touch on the sam/jack ship in the two movies. they could go nuts in continuum since it deals with time travel. I mean the series is over with sucks so they could have then finally end up togther not just in alternate verisons. I m amazed how they carried that ship for 10 years.

[JackandSamAddict]

I've read messages from shippers where it's like they're owed something for the years of will they/won't they by TPTB. In the end, for some anti-shippers (and I include myself in this), it's almost as though it's not the ship we dislike but the those who think they're owed. Fortunately, these ones seem to be in a minority around GW.

Okay, the show will not be ruined for me if i don't get the resolution that I want(Sam and Jack)...I still like Stargate for other reasons then just the ship. I do...in a way feel that we deserve resolution. TPTB started this and they should finish it, whichever way they see fit. It's going to make some mad and some very happy, but in the end we can squee over the ship or we can rant, and it's up to TPTB if they are going to ship them or not. And that is fine with me...mostly. I can't say that I won't be upset or feel a little robbed because they've IMHO played out this romance between Jack and Sam for so long...but I will get over it. Eventually!

And I too like this thread...where shippers and anti-shippers alike can come together and talk about ship rationally.

[poundpuppy29]

Glad to see this thread back from the dead. I like ships and I like good SL. I do lurk in the Anti threads I like to see the other side. Why I like ships in sci-fi is because it is not the focus of the show just an added bonus.