Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[Elitenova]

You are forgetting the Toilet ships shields.

[pliepl]

You are forgetting the Toilet ships shields.

Their shields aren’t impenetrable. Did you miss the season 10 premiere?

One of the advantages that the Borg has is their adaptability. Their ships and weapons are not static, they’re ever changing. When you fight a Borg ship, you’re not just fighting one ship, but rather the combine knowledge of the entire race and any other race they’ve assimilated, all working as one for one purpose; that's a HUGE advantage. As you fight them, they’re changing to adapt to you and at the same time rendering you harmless. The only way to fight them is to be always changing and adapting at the same pace. The Replicators seem to be the only race in Star Gate that can actively adapt.

Take Species 8472 for example. Their ships are virtually impervious to energy weapons and the amount of firepower their weapons are able to provide is much more then any ship I’ve seen in Star Gate (Toilet ships included). 9 ships (they only need 1 pilot per ship) are able to destroy a planet with ease. I’ve never seen a ship (or a fleet for that matter) in the Star Gate universe that can provide anywhere near that amount of firepower.

[SGFerrit]

Well, Stargate ships are alot faster, considering we can get to another galaxy in a matter of weeks while it takes a federation ship 70 years to get to the otherside of the galaxy. I doubt Human or Wraith ships from Stargate could beat federation ships in a battle though, but the Gould, Asgard and Tollan probably could and the ancients and Ori definately could. I'd say the Asgard and Tollan also have a good chance against the Borg, and again the Ancients and Ori would Own the Borg.

[pliepl]

Well, Stargate ships are alot faster, considering we can get to another galaxy in a matter of weeks while it takes a federation ship 70 years to get to the otherside of the galaxy. I doubt Human or Wraith ships from Stargate could beat federation ships in a battle though, but the Gould, Asgard and Tollan probably could and the ancients and Ori definately could. I'd say the Asgard and Tollan also have a good chance against the Borg, and again the Ancients and Ori would Own the Borg.

I won’t even touch transportation speeds since we’re talking about two universes with different limits (namely the Trek universe under normal circumstance aren’t permitted to leave the galaxy). Even with that writer imposed limitation, we know there are races in the Trek universe capable of going from one end of the galaxy to the other end within minutes.

As for the other part….

I never said the Asgard/Tollan/unacended ancients/Ori followers didn’t have a chance against the Borg (just not much of a chance). Going by what we already know….

How did the fight go with the Asgard and the Replicators (before O’neill built the weapon)? Basically getting their asses kicked around on all fronts if you remembered. As for the weapon on Dakara, the Borg isn’t the Replicators, what would kill the Replicators wouldn’t necessarily kill the Borg. You’d literally have to disintegrate everything in the galaxy… and at that point; you don’t have much of a story.

As for the Tollan.. They got wiped out by Anubis with his modified shielding that rendered their ion cannons useless. Again, if you do/did watch Star Trek, you’d already know that shield modification is something that the Borg is an expert at. If it’s mechanical/technological that they don’t understand, haven’t encountered before, their entire race resource is spent finding a countermeasure. You’re not just fighting one or two ships or a fleet, you’re fighting every Borg, yet you’re also fighting just one… they all work together. That's a massive advantage.

Unaccented ancients… We do know they were defeated by the Wraith… just through ordinary combat. People make them out to be stronger then they really are.

The Ori followers… We come up to the same thing. Mechanical technology is something the Borg does not have a problem with, it is Biotechnology (Species 8472) that they do. Last I looked; the priors are the only ones that can offer any real resistance since their “technology” is somewhat biotech; though even the priors are not invincible as the tauri have proved.

It might take another race months/years to improve their weapons/technology while the Borg do it instantly (in the heat of battle) or in a much shorter them. Resources and numbers isn't something the Borg has a problem with (they assimilate). They only become stronger the more you fight them (while you're pretty much static).

[muddyalcapones]

Well, Stargate ships are alot faster, considering we can get to another galaxy in a matter of weeks while it takes a federation ship 70 years to get to the otherside of the galaxy. I doubt Human or Wraith ships from Stargate could beat federation ships in a battle though, but the Gould, Asgard and Tollan probably could and the ancients and Ori definately could. I'd say the Asgard and Tollan also have a good chance against the Borg, and again the Ancients and Ori would Own the Borg.

mmm... Ori vs. Borg. Thats like the old addage about an unstoppable force vs. an immovable object. They could fight for 1000 years and never really settle anything. Plus they both believe in "join or die"

[pliepl]

mmm... Ori vs. Borg. Thats like the old addage about an unstoppable force vs. an immovable object. They could fight for 1000 years and never really settle anything. Plus they both believe in "join or die"

The Borg wouldn’t stand a chance against the ascended Ori. That's like saying the Borg going up against the Q.

Against the priors and their followers, that’s a different story. In that case, my money is on the Borg. The Borg has the advantage of adapting to the priors and their followers more so then they to the Borg. We already know that when it comes to technology, they’re great at counteracting (only exception being biotech where it’s a draw). The war would not last 1000 yrs, the ori followers would be decimated in a matter of months if even that long. The toilet ships weapons would only be affective in the first volley of the opening battle before being rendered harmless. Shields would be next.

In the Star Trek Universe we never see the Borg commit their full force into anything (The war with species 8472 probably the only exception and even then most of their fleet isn’t involved in the battles). They have millions of ships and billions of drones on those ships. That’s not including all the Borg planets which numbers into the 10s of thousands. Their entire civilization is built around adaptation and perfection through conquest.

[Lord Shiva]

I know these are two different levels between shows but if they were to be combined and had a all out battle against...for example: U.S.S. Defiant or any of the Battle class starships (That I mind you, using Quantum torpedoes) against A Gou'uld mothership and also ships from Asgard, Wraith, Ori

Who would ultimately win in a skirmish battle?

Speaking honestly, I believe the Federation would whump the Goa'uld's butt. But the Ori would whup the Federation, just like its doing to the Milky Way in Stargate Sg-1... Evil Ascended Beings > Almost Anyone Else.

[Col. Shadow Quinn]

I just love inaccurate comparisons from people who don't understand both universe.

Project Arcturus destroyed most of a solar system not the universe and only then because of an overload, which is far from a viable weapon. The Borg has mines capable of destroying a radius of 5 light years (10 light year range). I’m not sure if that’s their most powerful weapon but they do think on a very large scale. This is a weapon… not just an accident.

Listen, remember when McKay told Sheppard the worst case scenario was that Arcturus would tear a hole in the fabric of space-time. (Trinity). And the Mk9 can cause shields to fail. We are taking a multigigaton nuclear explosion going off in the face of a star trek ship.

[pliepl]

Listen, remember when McKay told Sheppard the worst case scenario was that Arcturus would tear a hole in the fabricof space-time. (Trinity). And the Mk9 can cause shields to fail. We are taking a multigigaton nuclear explosion going off in the face of a star trek ship.

Would you explain the relevance of Project Arcturus as a viable weapon? From that episode we know that what occurred and the subsequent explosion were the results of an accident (in some part also of McKay’s ego), far from a usable/consistent weapon of mass destruction.

We also don’t know how effective nuclear type explosions are against star trek universe shields (or even against the ship’s hull), especially in space. Remember, these ships practically live in space, they’re exposed to high levels of radiation and were designed as such.

A nuke loses a considerable amount of its effectiveness when detonated in space vs. in an atmosphere. A lot of the energy that would have gone towards causing damage produced if detonated in an atmosphere is converted to radiation instead.

As a matter of fact, there is an episode where a star trek ship confronted a nuclear explosion (ST: DS9 Season 4, “Little Green Men”). In that episode, a Ferengi Shuttle flies into a nuclear explosion (late 1940’s era) to harness the beta radiation to use it to get home (time travel back to the future). It's also not mention if the shuttle's shields were even up.

“We fly straight into the atomic
explosion, expose the kemacite to
the beta radiation and engage the
warp engines. If we have enough
kemacite, we should be able to
create a reverse time warp and
ride it home.”

Granted it’s not as powerful of an explosion as say the Mark 9 but this just shows the potential of Trek ships against nuclear type explosions. If a lowly Shuttle isn’t affected by an atmosphere detonation, there’s not much of a chance with the Mark 9 in space against a real ship especially up against some of the more formidable races.

[Avatar28]

Would you explain the relevance of Project Arcturus as a viable weapon? From that episode we know that what occurred and the subsequent explosion were the results of an accident (in some part also of McKay’s ego), far from a usable/consistent weapon of mass destruction.

Giant freaking space mine. Basically a portable supernova. Though the ancients could probably just cause a supernova if they wanted to do that anyways. I'm sure the Asgard can if they can alter the properties of matter to cause a star to turn into a black hole (off topic: I wonder what method they used to go about that. I don't think they actually added matter to the star, they would have to effectively move one or more other stars into the system to do that. More likely they somehow altered the fundamental properties of the matter within the star to increase it's gravitational mass).

We also don’t know how effective nuclear type explosions are against star trek universe shields (or even against the ship’s hull), especially in space. Remember, these ships practically live in space, they’re exposed to high levels of radiation and were designed as such.

The levels of radiation given off by a nuclear explosion, however, are FAR greater than what one would normally be exposed to in space. We know from the series that high radiation levels do penetrate the ships hull and can cause lethal radiation poisoning. We just don't know what those external levels were in those cases.

A nuke loses a considerable amount of its effectiveness when detonated in space vs. in an atmosphere. A lot of the energy that would have gone towards causing damage produced if detonated in an atmosphere is converted to radiation instead.

Nitpick: the radiation is actually NOT converted. In an atmosphere the radiation is absorbed by the air and that's what causes much of the heat and the blast. In space it's all gamma and neutron with probably some xrays thrown in for good measure.

As a matter of fact, there is an episode where a star trek ship confronted a nuclear explosion (ST: DS9 Season 4, “Little Green Men”). In that episode, a Ferengi Shuttle flies into a nuclear explosion (late 1940’s era) to harness the beta radiation to use it to get home (time travel back to the future). It's also not mention if the shuttle's shields were even up.

“We fly straight into the atomic
explosion, expose the kemacite to
the beta radiation and engage the
warp engines. If we have enough
kemacite, we should be able to
create a reverse time warp and
ride it home.”

Too bad that's just lousy science. Nuclear explosions don't give off large amounts of beta radiation. It's mostly neutron, gamma, and x-rays as noted above. You would probably get SOME beta due to radioactive decay of fission products and transmuted matter due to the neutron radiation, but I doubt much.

Granted it’s not as powerful of an explosion as say the Mark 9 but this just shows the potential of Trek ships against nuclear type explosions. If a lowly Shuttle isn’t affected by an atmosphere detonation, there’s not much of a chance with the Mark 9 in space against a real ship especially up against some of the more formidable races.

Except that the shuttles in Trek have often been shown to be not very powerful. And that's part of the problem, the show is so full of technobabble and inconsistent that it's hard to draw any sort of reliable conclusion. Why do you think there are so many nitpicker's guides?

Also the MAXIMUM yield for a photon torpedo is around 65 megatons (based on the stated 1.5kg of antimatter and assuming it reacts with 100% efficiency, which is doubtful). Torpedos are their heavy hitters and seem capable of doing significant damage to enemy ships and shields. So if a 65 megaton or less explosion can do that, any bets what a 1000+ megaton level explosion is going to do?

[pliepl]

Giant freaking space mine. Basically a portable supernova. Though the ancients could probably just cause a supernova if they wanted to do that anyways. I'm sure the Asgard can if they can alter the properties of matter to cause a star to turn into a black hole (off topic: I wonder what method they used to go about that. I don't think they actually added matter to the star, they would have to effectively move one or more other stars into the system to do that. More likely they somehow altered the fundamental properties of the matter within the star to increase it's gravitational mass).

Again, there’s no evidence (thus far anyways) that Project Arcturus can be use in such a fashion. The ancients (as advanced as they were prior to ascension) did not have the resources to produce such device in any sort of quantity. From the episode, that was one of their last advancements prior to ascension.

We already know that blowing up a star is not something foreign to either universe. Carter from Gates has done it and a rogue scientist (Star Trek Generations) from Trek has done it (in the form of a torpedo/projectile which is probably more effective and easily more reproduce-able then chucking star gates dialed to a black hole).

My point is, Project Arcturus is a poor excuse/comparison to the Borg mines I mentioned which are weapons of mass destruction, designed for that intended and can be deployed at will from a race with massive amounts of resources.

The levels of radiation given off by a nuclear explosion, however, are FAR greater than what one would normally be exposed to in space. We know from the series that high radiation levels do penetrate the ships hull and can cause lethal radiation poisoning. We just don't know what those external levels were in those cases.

Yes, unshielded ships.

Nitpick: the radiation is actually NOT converted. In an atmosphere the radiation is absorbed by the air and that's what causes much of the heat and the blast. In space it's all gamma and neutron with probably some xrays thrown in for good measure.

Noted.

Too bad that's just lousy science. Nuclear explosions don't give off large amounts of beta radiation. It's mostly neutron, gamma, and x-rays as noted above. You would probably get SOME beta due to radioactive decay of fission products and transmuted matter due to the neutron radiation, but I doubt much.

Not sure if that’s just lousy science on the part of the writers or just time constraints. The episode didn’t’ really mention beta as the only type of radiation that was given off, just that it was given off. Also never did mention how much of it they needed, just that they needed it.

Except that the shuttles in Trek have often been shown to be not very powerful. And that's part of the problem, the show is so full of technobabble and inconsistent that it's hard to draw any sort of reliable conclusion. Why do you think there are so many nitpicker's guides?

True, that’s why I don’t try to do any conversion from one sci fi universe to another unless I’ve seen it presented on the shows. Most of the stuff don’t translate well.

Also the MAXIMUM yield for a photon torpedo is around 65 megatons (based on the stated 1.5kg of antimatter and assuming it reacts with 100% efficiency, which is doubtful). Torpedos are their heavy hitters and seem capable of doing significant damage to enemy ships and shields. So if a 65 megaton or less explosion can do that, any bets what a 1000+ megaton level explosion is going to do?

I’d be curious to know where you got such a definitive 1.5kg equals 65 megaton conversion. Trek science for the most part doesn’t always translate directly to real science or any other sci fi universe for that matter.

Photon Torpedoes are largely ineffective against the Borg so I would not call them the “heavy hitter” that everyone here seems to be saying about them (and using them as their "star" weapon representive from the Trek universe; the weapon from species 8472's bioship would be my choice). Same goes for the Mark 9 nukes from star gate. Everyone here touts them as more power and effective then they really are (in the Gate universe).

[Avatar28]

Again, there’s no evidence (thus far anyways) that Project Arcturus can be use in such a fashion. The ancients (as advanced as they were prior to ascension) did not have the resources to produce such device in any sort of quantity. From the episode, that was one of their last advancements prior to ascension.

Agreed, but we don't know they WOULDN'T be able to either. You just asked what use it would be.

We already know that blowing up a star is not something foreign to either universe. Carter from Gates has done it and a rogue scientist (Star Trek Generations) from Trek has done it (in the form of a torpedo/projectile which is probably more effective and easily more reproduce-able then chucking star gates dialed to a black hole).

Well I was thinking the asgard doing something to cause it to go boom rather than chucking gates into them.

My point is, Project Arcturus is a poor excuse/comparison to the Borg mines I mentioned which are weapons of mass destruction, designed for that intended and can be deployed at will from a race with massive amounts of resources.

There's another problem with those mines pointed out at star-destroyer.net (it's under the erronious claims section)

They claim that "Scorpion" established the ability of a 5 million isoton explosion to affect everything within a 5 light year radius. However, this is merely another unscientific and nonsensical Federation cultist claim. Even if the weapon released infinite energy, it could not have propelled the nanoprobes into space any faster than c (or even at c). This incident is teeming with flaws and confusing statements. It was stated that the super-yield torpedo would require 50 trillion nanoprobes, but a 5-light-year radius sphere has an internal volume of 4.4E50 cubic metres. Therefore, this theoretical torpedo would disperse its 50 trillion nanoprobes so that there was one nanoprobe for every 8.9E36 cubic metres of space! An 8.9E36 cubic metre volume of space is equivalent to a cube that is over 2 billion km long on every side! At such high dispersion, they would be lucky to hit a planet with a probe, let alone a small ship.

Yes, unshielded ships.

Even with the shields they've had situations of high radiation levels posing threat of life. But I was thinking of unshielded at the time.

Not sure if that’s just lousy science on the part of the writers or just time constraints. The episode didn’t’ really mention beta as the only type of radiation that was given off, just that it was given off. Also never did mention how much of it they needed, just that they needed it.

There are certainly better sources of beta radiation, CRT tubes and other electron sources (beta radiation is just an electron). They probably could have just tapped into a electrical transmission line.

[QUOTE=pliepl]
True, that’s why I don’t try to do any conversion from one sci fi universe to another unless I’ve seen it presented on the shows. Most of the stuff don’t translate well.
[quote]
Right because they all invariably seem to use different physical laws from each other and it all becomes a bunch of fanwanking as some would put it.

I’d be curious to know where you got such a definitive 1.5kg equals 65 megaton conversion. Trek science for the most part doesn’t always translate directly to real science or any other sci fi universe for that matter.

(ignoring significant digits somewhat)
e=mc^2
e = (1.5 * 2) * 299,792,458^2
e = 3* 89,875,517,873,681,764
e = 269,626,553,621,045,292 joules

2.7 E17 joules = 64.4 megatons

That's the MAXIMUM theoretical yield assuming that every single atom gets annihilated. The reality is that you're unlikely to manage 100% conversion, some of it will go flying off during the explosion.

Photon Torpedoes are largely ineffective against the Borg so I would not call them the “heavy hitter” that everyone here seems to be saying about them (and using them as their "star" weapon representive from the Trek universe; the weapon from species 8472's bioship would be my choice). Same goes for the Mark 9 nukes from star gate. Everyone here touts them as more power and effective then they really are (in the Gate universe).

But they are for the federation, and what's behind them seems to be well established in the Trek universe which makes it easy to calculate. They also seem to be more effective than the armaments of most of the other races we've seen (not all).

I will agree about the mark IX though. Even if naquadria was able to enable 100% mass to energy conversion (not bloody likely), it would require 46.5 kg of matter to be converted directly to energy. For those claiming it's a teraton level explosion, that's a factor of a thousand greater. Somehow I don't think the Mk IX weighs in at 46500 kg (51 short (US) tons). And again, that's assuming 100% efficiency.

The reality is that I doubt it would be anywhere near that amount. A pure fission weapon can attain a maximum of 20-25% efficiency before it blows itself apart. If boosted using a fusion booster, that can be roughly doubled. Efficiency in this case, refers to the percentage of the fissionable material consumed. Actual energy yield is lower still. Even if we're generous and say that naquadria enhanced weapons can equal an energy release of about 20% mass to energy conversion that still puts your mass way up there. That would put the weight of a 1 gigaton warhead at a minimum of 250 kg and likely somewhat above that and the teraton yield at a minimum of 250,000 kg, 250 tons.

[pliepl]

Agreed, but we don't know they WOULDN'T be able to either. You just asked what use it would be.

I’m just going by what is presented in the shows. With their technological advantage over the wraith, they still lost the war. Unless the writers decide to take a different route (and rewrite what we know about the ancients), the ancients that we know of are not a race of warriors. Their technological superiority afforded them powerful weapons and defense tech, though they themselves have thus far not been presented as a warrior race.

Well I was thinking the asgard doing something to cause it to go boom rather than chucking gates into them.

Maybe, though that seems rather out of character with what is known about the Asgard thus far.

There's another problem with those mines pointed out at star-destroyer.net (it's under the erronious claims section)

Could you specify the article you’re referring to; a direct link or perhaps a quote?

I actually found that site rather comical; a debate with Star Trek against Star Wars trying to debunk both using known real world science to nitpick partially made up tech from either universe.

(ignoring significant digits somewhat)
e=mc^2
e = (1.5 * 2) * 299,792,458^2
e = 3* 89,875,517,873,681,764
e = 269,626,553,621,045,292 joules

2.7 E17 joules = 64.4 megatons

That's the MAXIMUM theoretical yield assuming that every single atom gets annihilated. The reality is that you're unlikely to manage 100% conversion, some of it will go flying off during the explosion.

What I meant was where has it been mention in the Trek universe where isotons (made up unit of measurement used by the Federation) translated to megatons (unit of measurement used in the Gates universe based off of real world measurement).

But they are for the federation, and what's behind them seems to be well established in the Trek universe which makes it easy to calculate. They also seem to be more effective than the armaments of most of the other races we've seen (not all).

I will agree about the mark IX though. Even if naquadria was able to enable 100% mass to energy conversion (not bloody likely), it would require 46.5 kg of matter to be converted directly to energy. For those claiming it's a teraton level explosion, that's a factor of a thousand greater. Somehow I don't think the Mk IX weighs in at 46500 kg (51 short (US) tons). And again, that's assuming 100% efficiency.

The reality is that I doubt it would be anywhere near that amount. A pure fission weapon can attain a maximum of 20-25% efficiency before it blows itself apart. If boosted using a fusion booster, that can be roughly doubled. Efficiency in this case, refers to the percentage of the fissionable material consumed. Actual energy yield is lower still. Even if we're generous and say that naquadria enhanced weapons can equal an energy release of about 20% mass to energy conversion that still puts your mass way up there. That would put the weight of a 1 gigaton warhead at a minimum of 250 kg and likely somewhat above that and the teraton yield at a minimum of 250,000 kg, 250 tons.

Yes, they are the federation’s heavy weapons, though the federation do not account for the entire Trek universe. There are many other races with far more powerful weapons though obviously a casual watcher or those who do not watch may not know that. My weapon of choice from the Trek universe would be the bio-ship’s weapons from species 8472 rather then something like the Photon Torpedo from the Federation. Granted the former is more obscured then the later (which anyone who watches passive Trek would know about). From the Gate universe, I do like the drones. It seems like an elegant weapon, something the ancients would choose to build.

Teraton level explosion? If my memory serves, in the episode “Beachhead” Carter said the Mark 9 was a multi-gigton explosion (which is far from a teraton explosion). Perhaps the people quoting it as a teraton explosion was mistaken?

[Avatar28]

I’m just going by what is presented in the shows. With their technological advantage over the wraith, they still lost the war. Unless the writers decide to take a different route (and rewrite what we know about the ancients), the ancients that we know of are not a race of warriors. Their technological superiority afforded them powerful weapons and defense tech, though they themselves have thus far not been presented as a warrior race.

I agree with you there. If the Ancients had used the time jumper and gotten, say, the Atlantis expedition to run their war for them, I think they would have mopped the floor with the Wraith. They just don't seem to know how to fight.

Maybe, though that seems rather out of character with what is known about the Asgard thus far.

Not really. I don't think they'd do it in an inhabited star system, but we know they've collapsed stars into black holes to fight the wraith and that they've been able to stop a star going supernova when we accidentally introduced naquada into it's core. It's not such a stretch.

Could you specify the article you’re referring to; a direct link or perhaps a quote?

Sorry, thought I had. The frames got me, I forgot to grab the frame target instead of the main page. Here you go.

They claim that "Scorpion" established the ability of a 5 million isoton explosion to affect everything within a 5 light year radius. However, this is merely another unscientific and nonsensical Federation cultist claim. Even if the weapon released infinite energy, it could not have propelled the nanoprobes into space any faster than c (or even at c). This incident is teeming with flaws and confusing statements. It was stated that the super-yield torpedo would require 50 trillion nanoprobes, but a 5-light-year radius sphere has an internal volume of 4.4E50 cubic metres. Therefore, this theoretical torpedo would disperse its 50 trillion nanoprobes so that there was one nanoprobe for every 8.9E36 cubic metres of space! An 8.9E36 cubic metre volume of space is equivalent to a cube that is over 2 billion km long on every side! At such high dispersion, they would be lucky to hit a planet with a probe, let alone a small ship.

I actually found that site rather comical; a debate with Star Trek against Star Wars trying to debunk both using known real world science to nitpick partially made up tech from either universe.

It's mostly a Star Wars can beat the crap out of Star Trek site, but they do, at least, also try to post the RL physics behind them too. Just like with SG, unless it's been contradicted by the show you can generally go with real world physics whenever possible (even if you have to delve into the unproven theoretical realm of physics (like brane theory) to do so).

What I meant was where has it been mention in the Trek universe where isotons (made up unit of measurement used by the Federation) translated to megatons (unit of measurement used in the Gates universe based off of real world measurement).

Oh, I don't think it has. The 64 megatons figure was, as I indicated with the math, based on the energy you get by converting 3 kilos of matter into energy.

Yes, they are the federation’s heavy weapons, though the federation do not account for the entire Trek universe. There are many other races with far more powerful weapons though obviously a casual watcher or those who do not watch may not know that. My weapon of choice from the Trek universe would be the bio-ship’s weapons from species 8472 rather then something like the Photon Torpedo from the Federation. Granted the former is more obscured then the later (which anyone who watches passive Trek would know about). From the Gate universe, I do like the drones. It seems like an elegant weapon, something the ancients would choose to build.

Yeah, I know. But as I stated, I went with that because there are references that can be calculated using real world physics available and they are, at least, on the stronger side of weapons in the trek universe among the races we have seen often. There have been quite a few races that seemed far more powerful but we've only seen them once so know almost nothing about them.

Teraton level explosion? If my memory serves, in the episode “Beachhead” Carter said the Mark 9 was a multi-gigton explosion (which is far from a teraton explosion). Perhaps the people quoting it as a teraton explosion was mistaken?

You are correct, she did. However a lot of people on this board seem to have gotten it into their head that, based on the blast radius and such shown in beachhead that it had to be closer to a teraton level explosion (after all, 999 gigatons is still multi-gigaton). Personally my money is on it being in the 2-10 gigaton range at most. I was pointing out how very unlikely anything close to a teraton level would be since I'm sure it will be given like that at some point in this debate if it hasn't already.

[Alor]

So far the Ori would win the fight no matter what race it was going to challenge them. The Alteran i am sure would put up a good fight but lets face it, all their technology is ten thousand years old or older and the ori ships where build like last month with the knowlege of ascended beings. Perhaps if the ancients build some ships now they would kick ass but who knows. The Ori have been around just as long as the Ancients right? except they have been sapping power from their followers the whole time. In theory the should Pwn.

StarTrek Vs Wraith - In my opinion StarTrek ships would destroy the wraith with all their old, falling apart, organic cruisers and hives.

StarTrek Vs Tau'ri - Its not really a challenge really. They might last more than 5 minutes thanks to the asgard shields, unless the StarFleet shielding can be penatrated with asgard beaming technology then it would get interesting. but still they can just remodulate their shields to block it after the first galaxy class gets wiped out.

StarTrek Vs Asgard - This is going to be a long fight. I am thinking that they are on similar levels of development. But once again it comes down to the capability of the federation shielding holding up to the beaming technology. This fight is anyones guess.

StarTrek Vs Goa'uld - I am pretty sure that a Ha'tak would quickly be destroyed by an ambassador class any day of the week. but forget about that, what i really wanna see is the Klingons boarding the Goa'uld ships. Thats gonna be a great fight hand to hand disruptor vs zat, batleth vs staff.