The Tower Review - The Prime Directive?

[ShadowMaat]

I can only hope that the review was pulled only to change any "factual" inconsistencies and that it returns with the same snarky, thumbs DOWN review. Tower fully deserved it, IMO.

One would certainly HOPE that was the reason it got pulled and not because it was simply "too negative."

[Mattathias2.0]

Other more advanced races use it with us.... maybe thats a clue we should implement it ourselves.

Yes... The Nox, The Asgard and Tollans had such rules...

But as far as I can see... We haven't given people technology that could destroy themselves thus far. In all instances we have interacted with lesser-advanced cultures... We have either tried to sort it out correctly, or completely the mission to do so (Abydonians, Tegulans, etc).

I'm open for critisism.

Mattathias.

[Darren]

The review of "The Tower" was not retracted because people complained about it, but because I decided that it should not have been published as it was. I edit material every week for publication, and sometimes a piece will go through multiple drafts before GateWorld readers ever see it. Sometimes, for one reason or another, it won't ever see the light of day. That's not censorship; that's the editorial process. On very, very rare occasions, something will get published that shouldn't have been, or should have been differently edited. That's my responsibility as an editor, to make sure that all material -- from episode summaries to reviews to news articles to interviews -- meets the editorial standards I have set for the site.

The review was not retracted because it was too negative. It was not retracted for giving the episode a one-star rating. It was not retracted because I (or anyone else) simply disagreed with the author's opinions.

Please, give me more credit than that. This is the first time in over six years that something has been removed from the site. We go out of our way on both the site and the forum to not censor any points of view and to make sure everyone gets a fair shake-down and is treated with respect -- and we take heat for it. I have no problem whatsoever getting screamed at by a hundred people for an editorial we run.

I'm not comfortable discussing the specifics of this particular piece at this time, out of respect for the author.

[Uber]

This post is directed at the review of The Tower posted on the main site.

(spoilers)

Although I thought the episode in question was very silly, I just had to comment on this, as it struck me as very, very odd. It may have been meant as a joke, but on the off chance that it wasn't, I just have to point out the following:

- The Prime Directive doesn't exist in Stargate
- Even if it did, Teyla and Ronon are under no obligation to uphold it
- Even if they were, the Prime Directive still isn't a particularly good idea. As an principle, it is intellectually bankrupt. The best that can be said of it is that it functions as an effective plot device to create drama and tension in certain episodes of Star Trek. O_o

The only group of beings that have shown any propensity towards following the Prime Directive (or at least the model of non-interference) are the ascended.

I remember the conversation from Ascension between Sam and Orlin where he's talking about what happened on the planet...how he tried to help them defeat the Goa'uld. Sam told him that he was right to try and he states emphatically that he wasn't because his interference caused those same people to plan to use the technology he shared with them for diabolical purposes. Sam responded that it wasn't his fault because he couldn't have known...and Orlin replied that this is why the rule exists.

However, these same ascended beings had no problem wiping out the entire planet...and Orlin's explanation that they felt it was essentially for the greater good didn't fly well with me. They played judge, jury and executioner and broke their own law of non-interference to "correct" what Orlin had done. What about the innocents on the planet or was every man, woman and child bent on galactic domination?

I'm of the mindset that you do what you can to help people as best you can, acknowledging that it doesn't always work out the way you hope. But the idea to abandon those in need because you don't know what might happen later is off-putting to me and goes against what I think are some of the basic principles our heroes stand for...freedom and justice.

In The Tower, we have a people who were being oppressed. I had absolutely no problem with our team starting a rebellion and encouraging them to stand up for themselves because they were living in an unjust system and deserved the right to live freely without fear of oppression.

I hope I never see any of the Stargate teams...from either show...refuse to stand up for basic human rights for fear that things might not go as planned.

[Vuen]

However, these same ascended beings had no problem wiping out the entire planet...and Orlin's explanation that they felt it was essentially for the greater good didn't fly well with me. They played judge, jury and executioner and broke their own law of non-interference to "correct" what Orlin had done. What about the innocents on the planet or was every man, woman and child bent on galactic domination?

I agree with your post entirely, except here. The reason the Ancients wiped out the planet is because that's what was supposed to have happened. They were under attack from the Goa'uld; Orlin's interference was saving them. Leaving everyone alive would have been violating their Prime Directive.

I understand you want to save the innocents, and I agree, but the reasoning of the Ancients was that these innocents were supposed to be dead. I don't think it's right, but no, they did not break their own law of non-interference.

[ShadowMaat]

Thank you for the explanation, Darren. That helps to settle some of my concerns.

[prion]

Okay, granted. But as Darren said they should be written fairly; they should above all be factually correct. I often don't agree with episode reviews, but that's just it, I can disagree. With Sharon's review my reaction was not "I disagree", it was "That's just plain not true."

Regardless of whether or not you guys agree with the review, doesn't it bother you the amount of stuff she wrote, like the ZPM thing or the jumper thing, that was just outright false?

The only thing that stuck out in my mind was the mention of Ronon decapitating someone when in fact he slit their throat; he did not decapitate them. Yes, opinion is fine, no matter how dreadful it may be (and "The Tower" was hardly a stellar episode, cough cough) but let's get the facts straight.

[Uber]

I agree with your post entirely, except here. The reason the Ancients wiped out the planet is because that's what was supposed to have happened. They were under attack from the Goa'uld; Orlin's interference was saving them. Leaving everyone alive would have been violating their Prime Directive.

I understand you want to save the innocents, and I agree, but the reasoning of the Ancients was that these innocents were supposed to be dead. I don't think it's right, but no, they did not break their own law of non-interference.

See I'm not sure about this either. We know that being ascended does not equal being omniscient. Ascended beings do not know the future for instance (Abyss is a good example of this because Daniel would have had no reason to offer ascension to Jack if he had known he would be rescued at some point). Granted they know a lot...but not everything.

So how could they be sure that the planet was "meant" to be destroyed by the Goa'uld? What if the planet had been "meant" to be rescued by Orlin? And further in this little exercise, what if one of the worlds the planet attacked was "meant" to have responded and destroyed them? Or simply conquered them? Or what if a rebellion was "meant" to have started on that world instead? I can come up with 100 what-if scenarios that could have played out on our plane of existence and without them breaking their tenuous non-interference policy. What if one of those was the "right" one? The one that was meant to be...but with their interference they ended what could have been an important chain of events before they even got off the ground. For instance, what if, in exacting their absolutist judgment on that entire planet for the actions of a few (more than likely the leadership and not the population), amongst the millions of people they killed, they exterminated the one person who could rid the galaxy of the Ori or the Pegasus galaxy of the Wraith?

Either they have a policy of non-interference on lower planes of existence, then that should mean they have a policy of non-interference on lower planes of existence...and not jump in with their elitist attitudes to supposedly "fix things" by breaking the rule they are supposedly reinforcing.

Further, their policy continued to be stretched in Threads. They weren't going to interfere to

Spoiler:

rescue the galaxy from Anubis, who had used the knowledge and powers he obtained as a half-ascended being to rise to power after all (how is that worse than what Orlin did btw? Using his knowledge or power to interfere in the lower planes as it were? Especially since Orlin's motivations were pure and Anubis's were malevolent)...and then they did because of Oma's sacrifice. So were they wrong to save the galaxy or were they wrong when they originally refused to do so?

Either way, they were wrong at some point, proving that they are not perfect beings.

Not omniscient, not perfect...but they enact judgment against a planet as though they were gods and had the right to do so with a sense of entitlement not dissimilar to the Ori, who enact judgment upon those who displease them...each with their own agendas...albeit the motivation of the Ori seems to be more self-serving and malicious on its face. And then they condemn the Ori for playing gods but refuse to interfere to protect the lower planes of existence because...why? They protected this galaxy so that the Ori would not know of us (which I think could be deemed as interference) and then won't step up to the plate to do anything to defend us because of their non-interference policy. How do they know we weren't supposed to be destroyed by the Ori ages ago? They originally shielded us on our lowly plane of existence because they wanted to. Period. Where was their non-interference policy then?

My point with all of the above, is that they're not very consistent with their policy. They pick and choose to apply it or not to apply it and their reasons for doing either are ambiguous at best.

[AndyStargateUK]

It's quite possible that the people of the planet have been left with a defense against the wraith, a mark-II naquadah generator is enough to power a chair for enough time to provide defense with the drones.
The people now have the gene technology given by Atlantis and they could have easily have been given a mark-II naquadah generator to power the chair for defense and training in what to do in the event of an attack in return for giving some of the drones to Atlantis and in compensation for draining the ZPM.
Further to that Atlantis then gave them the means to contact them for help in a mop up operation like killing any Wraith that land on the planet after the inital attack is stopped by the drones and the remaining Wraith leave.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't suppose anyone has a copy of the review floating around somewhere, huh? Might be nice to read it again, even if Gateworld "disapproves" of it.

[Vuen]

I have a copy, grabbed from my cache after the review was pulled. I'd rather not spread it around without Darren's permission. If he says it's okay, then sure, I'll send it along.

[FoolishPleasure]

That was a terrible episode and the review just said what a lot of people felt. Sorry to see it was pulled.

[ShadowMaat]

That was a terrible episode and the review just said what a lot of people felt. Sorry to see it was pulled.

Me too. And I finally managed to find a copy and read it again. I still don't see what was so grossly inaccurate as to warrant it being yanked. Just the one bit about decapitation and that wasn't a HUGELY wrong thing. Not like, ya know, saying that Ronon was the one to drain the ZPM while McKay was going Highlander on some would-be rapist assaulting Teyla. THAT would be inaccurate. ...Although, ya know, it might have been more interesting that way. At least the bit about McKay with a sword managing not to cut off his own fingers.

[AndyStargateUK]

Me too. And I finally managed to find a copy and read it again. I still don't see what was so grossly inaccurate as to warrant it being yanked. P

What about Voyager and the fact Janeway kinda ripped up the rule book to save Voyager a few decades of travel.
Trying to compare the show with rules that aren't in the show are unfair at the least.

[prion]

Is it possible to clarify WHY the review is no longer there?

People saying "it was pulled" sounds like the author of the review had no say in it, that the webmaster did it.