The Tower Review - The Prime Directive?

[AndyStargateUK]

I'd rather not bring current politics into this discussion. That would only fan the flames higher.



Given a choice between an Oppressive Leader and a impartial race of Genocidal Monsters, I'll take the Oppressive Leader. It may be more of a constant interference in my life, but at least I and my friends and family won't wind up as someone's dinner.

Plus, as I said, the chances of the Atlantis crew being able to do anything useful to save the planet from a Wraith culling are pretty slim. Assuming the locals can even manage to get out a plea for help (see above re: Wraith tactics), the attack will already be happening when they do. It'll take even MORE time to get a force together to try and repel the Wraith. Plus there's the fact that technically, Atlantis isn't supposed to exist anymore, so if they DO go riding to the rescue, they'd better make damn sure they get every single wraith out there and pray that the ships didn't send off a signal to the others saying, "Hey, those jumped-up horny toads occupying Atlantis are still around!"

Perhaps a follow up episode is needed for Season Three.

Basic Plot outline: Having endured a Wraith attack (the wraith dialed in) the people of the village from the tower dial into Atlantis under the pretense they are still under attack and storm the control room holding Atlantis workers hostage while demanding compensation of the Atlantis ZPM for Atlantis effectivly leaving them without any defense saying if none is given they will use the tower to inform the Wraith of the exsistance of Atlantis before the hiveships jump into hyperspace.

[ShadowMaat]

Basic Plot outline: Having endured a Wraith attack (the wraith dialed in) the people of the village from the tower dial into Atlantis under the pretense they are still under attack and storm the control room holding Atlantis workers hostage while demanding compensation of the Atlantis ZPM for Atlantis effectivly leaving them without any defense saying if none is given they will use the tower to inform the Wraith of the exsistance of Atlantis before the hiveships jump into hyperspace.

And then Sharon can write another review saying that there's FINALLY an ep that is even worse than The Tower.

[timdalton007]

What really bugged me about this episode wasn't the whole "prime directive" thing. What really bugged me was the plot all together. Soemhow it didn't seem to back too much sense.

timdalton007

[AndyStargateUK]

And then Sharon can write another review saying that there's FINALLY an ep that is even worse than The Tower.

Oi! Lol , I like your sig btw.

[Vuen]

Teyla and Ronon incite revolution. Did they skip their lessons on the Prime Directive?

It's reviews like these that make me feel like the reviewers don't know anything about the show. Do you even watch Stargate? If you did, you'd know that the very act of stepping through the gate is a violation of the Prime Directive.

How many "pre-warp" civilizations have they turned upside down? How many wars have they started on "pre-warp" civilizations, such Kelowna, or the planet from Icon?

There have been episodes where SG1 has gone out of their way to intentionally destroy the civilization just because they don't like the way they do things. Take Beneath the Surface for example. SG1 had the opportunity to establish trade relations with an advanced civilization, but they discovered they were enslaving a labour force underground. Instead of establishing trade, they freed the slaves through the gate; the civilization collapsed due to the total loss of its labour force.

Memento is another example of the show's blatant contempt for the Prime Directive. Prometheus shows up in orbit above a pre-warp civilization, detonates its hyperdrive emitting an EMP pulse that shuts down a continent, lands on the planet, and asks to borrow their Stargate. Does that sound like they care about the Prime Directive?

This lone statement invalidates your entire review, because it shows that you don't even know the first thing about Stargate. Of course, that's not going to stop me from shooting holes through it:

Were I a villager, I would see Sheppard and his team as people who are violent beyond need (Ronon), destructive (no government, no defenses), and thieves (they took the Puddle Jumpers and drones, and maybe even the Z.P.M.).

What? They DRAINED the ZPM! Did you even watch the episode?!?

It was already almost out of power anyway, so it was basically useless. As it was, it could probably only fend off one or two more Wraith attacks. It wouldn't take much of attack on the Wraith's part to drain it.

Even if the ZPM was full, everyone seems to be forgetting the critical fact that the royal family's bloodline was failing. They could no longer control the chair. A few more generations, maybe 50 years or so, and it would be useless.

The planet was already virtually defenseless. Nearly depleted ZPM, and nearly unuseable chair. As it was, it was only useful as a means to enslave the population. They're much better off now than they were before, because they're establishing a democracy and they have Atlantis and the Deadalus to help defend them.

If the tower was so close, why didn't anyone see it from the Puddle Jumper as they flew in? It's a hard place to miss.

Don't you think the tower would have noticed a puddle jumper flying through the gate? The king knew right away that they had come through the gate, yet they never mentioned a jumper.

The team came on foot. I thought that was obvious.

And how cliché, Ronon to the rescue of the threatened village woman. Wouldn't it have been bold if Teyla, who is a warrior, had been the one to wade into battle? And then there was Ronon's totally uncalled for decapitation of the soldier. After that, why would these people believe he was any different than the man he killed?

You're not making any sense. It would have been okay if it was Teyla, but not Ronon?

That soldier meant to rape that girl. How was killing him uncalled for? He should have given him a slap on the wrist? I think it was very much right for the team to teach these people that this is not a way to live, and that they should stand up for themselves and fight.

He's a military man, leader of the Atlantis defense forces, chief field operative and in this episode, the most naïve he's ever been. No 13-year-old would trust anyone in the tower society, let alone simply hand over the gene therapy without sufficient protocol to ensure it is used properly.

20/20 hindsight. Succession of the throne was falling to Tavius; something had to be done immediately. They didn't have time to wait for protocol. At the time, Otho was the best person to give it to, because near as we could tell he had been acting for the benefit of the people. He even went so far as to encourage Sheppard to marry Mara, even though he loved her himself, because it was the best way to ensure that the chair could be used.

It's easy for the viewers to distrust Otho because we got to see his arrangement with Tavius long before the characters did. That was the whole point of those scenes. It's called "dramatic irony".



In conclusion, please try to actually understand an episode before you write a review about it. Oh, and actually knowing something about the Stargate universe is probably a good idea too. Good luck on your next review.

[ShadowMaat]

Remind me never to review an ep for Gateworld. It draws in trolls like a MAGNET.

Sorry, where was I? Oh yes, discussing the REVIEW, not the REVIEWER.

I hope Sharon writes more reviews. I think I like her attitude.

[PG15]

Barring the insults, I agree with Vuen completely.

Just because someone is a little rude doesn't make them a troll.

[ShadowMaat]

Just because someone is a little rude doesn't make them a troll.

Someone whose first post goes out of its way to bash someone? Close enough to a troll for me.

[PG15]

Still, a troll and someone who has a strong opinion is very different.

I wouldn't go around labeling anyone who is a little over the top a troll. It's like what they did with "Traitor" in the US a few years ago.

Besides, I've seen plenty of people signing up to a forum because they want to respond to a single post, which usually means they have a very strong opinion about it.

[Vuen]

Someone whose first post goes out of its way to bash someone? Close enough to a troll for me.

Oh, how did I know that the very first thing you would do was look at my post count? I'm not allowed to have an opinion until I've spent a thousand hours in the roleplay forums?

[ShadowMaat]

Oh, how did I know that the very first thing you would do was look at my post count? I'm not allowed to have an opinion until I've spent a thousand hours in the roleplay forums?

You're allowed to have an opinion. So is Sharon, the author of the review in question. What I take exception to is that you went out of your way to piss all over HER rather than debating what she had to say. It wasn't enough to say, "I don't think this is a valid point and here's why..." No, you had to ridicule her, question her abilities, degrade her review and otherwise have a really nasty attitude towards her on a personal level. And I don't care if you have one post or ten thousand, I don't like people who feel compelled to attack other people just because they disagree with that person's opinions. Debate the opinion, NOT the opinion holder. However, the fact that your very first post on Gateworld happens to be of a personally vindictive nature does not speak well of you. Not to me, anyway.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when that opinion comes at another's expense, it's time to step back and cool off.

PG15- I'll reserve judgement until I see some more posts from this person, but "strongly opinionated" still doesn't mean "free to personally ridicule someone whose opinion you dislike."

[Scyld]

This lone statement invalidates your entire review, because it shows that you don't even know the first thing about Stargate. Of course, that's not going to stop me from shooting holes through it.

Woah there. You're overreacting. Some off-hand remark about the Prime Directive surely does not invalidate a review, nor does it in any way suggest the reviewer to be a fool. Take a deep breath and think of flowers and butterflies.

Even if the ZPM was full, everyone seems to be forgetting the critical fact that the royal family's bloodline was failing. They could no longer control the chair. A few more generations, maybe 50 years or so, and it would be useless.

I don't think anyone is forgetting this. 50 years of a solid defense against the Wraith is nothing to sneeze at.

The planet was already virtually defenseless. Nearly depleted ZPM, and nearly unuseable chair.

You mean it would have been virtually defenseless in 50 years?

As it was, it was only useful as a means to enslave the population. They're much better off now than they were before, because they're establishing a democracy and they have Atlantis and the Deadalus to help defend them.

Uh... yeah. What do you suppose are the chances of the Atlantis folks *ever* visiting that planet again, either through the Stargate or with Daedalus?

You're not making any sense. It would have been okay if it was Teyla, but not Ronon?

I think the reviewer's complaint had more to do with the fact that Ronon (big strong man) wading into battle to save the 'helpless female' was intensely yawnworthy and cliched. If Teyla had done the same thing, although the denotation would have been the same, it would have brought with it an entirely different set of (and more interesting) connotations.

That soldier meant to rape that girl. How was killing him uncalled for? He should have given him a slap on the wrist? I think it was very much right for the team to teach these people that this is not a way to live, and that they should stand up for themselves and fight.

Aye, of course the good folks of Atlantis must 'save these backwards savages from themselves,' for truth, justice, and kittens.

Seriously though, although I don't find fault with Ronon's actions (best to say that he did the right thing in an incredibly politically inconvenient way), I do find fault with the writers for creating such an uninspired situation and then not even bothering to find the potential for a more interesting situation in the aftermath.

20/20 hindsight. Succession of the throne was falling to Tavius; something had to be done immediately. They didn't have time to wait for protocol. At the time, Otho was the best person to give it to, because near as we could tell he had been acting for the benefit of the people. He even went so far as to encourage Sheppard to marry Mara, even though he loved her himself, because it was the best way to ensure that the chair could be used.

If the Atlantis team had taken the time to understand the situation instead of taking everything on blind trust, the whole situation would have been resolved without such unneeded drama. I was surprised that Weir didn't verbally tear into Shepphard when he got back to Atlantis for his James T. Kirk way of doing things.

In conclusion, please try to actually understand an episode before you write a review about it. Oh, and actually knowing something about the Stargate universe is probably a good idea too. Good luck on your next review.

I understand that you disagree with the review that was posted, but there is no need to attack the reviewer. Criticise the review all you want, but leave the insults out of it, please. There's no need to be anything but civil to each other here.

[Vuen]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when that opinion comes at another's expense, it's time to step back and cool off.

It's very hypocritical of you to support her review, and then tell me not to attack her personally. Maybe you should read the review again:

Note to the writers: There are universities with anthropologists and sociologists in Vancouver. For a free meal or two, there must be some who would help you create viable societies that have been left alone for 10,000 years in a galaxy far, far away.

Seems to me you have no problem with attacking the writers personally. You like her attitude, right?

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, I see that as a bit of advice. Just as, if someone had me beta a story wherein I knew certain scientific details were wrong or could be made stronger, I'd tell the person to go to such-and-such website to find out more about it or say, "You should talk to my friend Billy, he knows a thing or two about this."

You, on the other hand, flat-out call the reviewer a fool and other nasty little comments which are not at all advice-like and are definitely meant to insult.

[Vuen]

Woah there. You're overreacting. Some off-hand remark about the Prime Directive surely does not invalidate a review [...]

Oh, I think it does. She gave off the impression that inciting a revolution on an alien world is automatically a bad thing, like we shouldn't interfere. Newsflash, inciting revolution is what they do. Ever heard of a Jaffa? Seriously, name a single off-world exploration episode where they don't violate the prime directive.

I don't think anyone is forgetting this. 50 years of a solid defense against the Wraith is nothing to sneeze at. [...] You mean it would have been virtually defenseless in 50 years?

50 years, assuming the Wraith don't attack. They attack, the ZPM gets drained, bye bye society. They don't attack, and they get to enslave the people for 50 years.

This is what I'm getting at. It's not 50 years of protection, it's 50 years of enslavement.

Uh... yeah. What do you suppose are the chances of the Atlantis folks *ever* visiting that planet again, either through the Stargate or with Daedalus?

If they say they'll help, they do it. If something is their fault, they take responsibility for it to protect the civilization.

The perfect example is Red Sky. They doomed the planet, like you claim Atlantis just did in The Tower. Did they just leave and never come back? No, they came back and built a hundred million dollar rocket. Think about that for a moment. As General Hammond says, "Rockets don't grow on trees."

Atlantis is not just going to sit around. They'll do everything in their power to help.

If the Atlantis team had taken the time to understand the situation instead of taking everything on blind trust, the whole situation would have been resolved without such unneeded drama. I was surprised that Weir didn't verbally tear into Shepphard when he got back to Atlantis for his James T. Kirk way of doing things.

That's the thing, there was no time. Tavius would have succeeded to the throne. Sheppard had to do something. What else could he do?

Actually, I see that as a bit of advice. Just as, if someone had me beta a story wherein I knew certain scientific details were wrong or could be made stronger, I'd tell the person to go to such-and-such website to find out more about it or say, "You should talk to my friend Billy, he knows a thing or two about this."

Bahahahahha! She was giving the writers advice. That's awesome.