The Tower Review - The Prime Directive?

[ShadowMaat]

You still seem to be vastly confused on the difference between an opinion and a fact. I see no point in trying to continue a discussion with you.

Scyld- if there are any additional points you'd wish to discuss, I'd be happy to continue our somewhat more civil debate.

[Vuen]

You still seem to be vastly confused on the difference between an opinion and a fact. I see no point in trying to continue a discussion with you.

Oh really? Please tell me, where in my posts did I state my opinion about the episode?

That's right, nowhere. I'm arguing only the facts. The fact is the team did not leave that society defenseless; they already were. That's the whole reason anything happened in that episode. They needed someone to control the chair. The fact is the team had no way of knowing Otho was going to steal the gene therapy, and they had no other choice. The fact is Atlantis did not run away with their drones, they traded them for medicines and help that they will provide. The fact is that inciting revolution is fundamental to Stargate.

Everything I've said has relied on facts, and specific examples from a host of previous Stargate episodes. I don't argue opinions. You didn't like it? Fine, that's your opinion. But I'm not going to sit around and listen to a reviewer bash an episode based on completely false information.

[Scyld]

The fact is the team did not leave that society defenseless; they already were. That's the whole reason anything happened in that episode. They needed someone to control the chair.

I would point out that we have no way of knowing how long the ZPM would have lasted had Rodney not powered up the engines of the city. Certainly there was more than enough power to launch a full scale drone attack on the village that Teyla and Ronon had incited to revolution. Remember, the Stardrive is the single biggest drain on the city's power - compared to that, the firing of drones is very probably negligable.

[Scyld]

I hope Sharon writes more reviews. I think I like her attitude.

Me too, actually. Although I do think she got a little carried away in blasting the episode, it was nothing if not an interesting read.

The people of that world were less developed in terms of technology, sociology, economics, education, etc. Particularly the "peasant class" running the farms and whatnot. They haven't devloped through experience, they've been thrust into the middle of something they probably can't even put into context.

True enough, but again, I'm not sure what we mean by 'less developed.' Do we have a higher level of technology because we have guns and nukes? Is technology a thing of levels and an ascending towards perfection? If it is, I suppose it's worth pointing out that the entire purpose of the SGC is to take shortcuts in order to acquire new technologies as quickly as possible. This is also arguably the purpose of the Atlantis expedition.

Of course, arguments could probably be made that most cultures experience sudden leaps forward and that the situation at the end of The Tower is just another example of that. But generally speaking, when a culture encounters a group from a higher tech/social base, that culture tends to be decimated. Aztecs, Incas, Indians, etc. Things tend to go very poorly for the "lesser developed" people- even if those people are more sophisticated than their counterparts in certain areas of knowledge.

The Japanese did fairly well for themselves when they were brought out of their medieval period by the arrival of American warships in their harbours, as did the people of earth when we first encountered the Goa'uld.

[ShadowMaat]

True enough, but again, I'm not sure what we mean by 'less developed.' Do we have a higher level of technology because we have guns and nukes? Is technology a thing of levels and an ascending towards perfection? If it is, I suppose it's worth pointing out that the entire purpose of the SGC is to take shortcuts in order to acquire new technologies as quickly as possible. This is also arguably the purpose of the Atlantis expedition.

Good point. But I think that we Earthers have a slightly better grasp on the fundamentals of the alien technology we're trying to acquire. And when we don't, bad things tend to happen. Tangent, Red Sky, Meridian (bad for Langara), Fallout (Langara again), Trinity (Atlantis), etc, just for starters. We survived 'em all and I suppose you could say some important lessons were learned. But any of those situations could have gone a lot worse, especially if the point wasn't to wrap things up and hit the reset button after 40-something minutes.

And I'm not implying that it's a race towards perfection (though some could see it was that). It's more of an attempt to make yourself and your people "better" (which is another wonderfully ambiguous term).

But to be honest, I don't have enough background in this kind of stuff to make a workable argument. I'd probably just contradict myself and wind up proving YOUR point.

The Japanese did fairly well for themselves when they were brought out of their medieval period by the arrival of American warships in their harbours, as did the people of earth when we first encountered the Goa'uld.

You mean the "people of Earth" as represented by Stargate Command? Dunno how things are in S9, but in seasons 1-8, the common masses didn't have any inkling about what was Out There. But yeah, we manage to live in spite of the culture shock. Mostly because we were on the defensive against Goa'uld incursions and the like. Eventually we took bigger steps and went on the offensive.

I'd actually be curious to see how people in the Stargate universe would react to everything that has been uncovered by the SGC (and the Russians) over the past nine years. Although given the quality of the writing these days, I think I'd prefer to keep it within my own imaginings.

[Scyld]

You mean the "people of Earth" as represented by Stargate Command?

Ahehehe, yes, that's what I mean.

I'd actually be curious to see how people in the Stargate universe would react to everything that has been uncovered by the SGC (and the Russians) over the past nine years. Although given the quality of the writing these days, I think I'd prefer to keep it within my own imaginings.

The writing's not so bad. It only really seems to take a dive in the 'bubble' episodes.

[ShadowMaat]

The writing's not so bad. It only really seems to take a dive in the 'bubble' episodes.

Says you. As far as I'm concerned, they're all bubble eps. Which is why I stopped watching regularly after S6.

Is it just me or do people only ever talk about the "controversial" reviews? When folks agree with what the reviewers are saying, no one ever bothers to start a thread saying, "Rock on! This was SO RIGHT! You should, like, totally work for the show 'cause you're awesome!" Nope, it's always, "You suck! You weren't watching the same show we were! You should have your writing license revoked because you don't know what you're doing!"

Pfft. What-everrrr. Just goes to show you that without a bit of contention now and then, this board would be dead from boredom.

[PG15]

PG15- I'll reserve judgement until I see some more posts from this person, but "strongly opinionated" still doesn't mean "free to personally ridicule someone whose opinion you dislike."

Fine by me.

[Amanda Eros]

Still, a troll and someone who has a strong opinion is very different.

I wouldn't go around labeling anyone who is a little over the top a troll. It's like what they did with "Traitor" in the US a few years ago.

Besides, I've seen plenty of people signing up to a forum because they want to respond to a single post, which usually means they have a very strong opinion about it.

It could also mean that they are signing up on another computer or using another e-mail address to sign up with a different name. They may not want to get negative reps. Or have other people know who they are. Ya never know. lol

[ShadowMaat]

It could also mean that they are signing up on another computer or using another e-mail address to sign up with a different name. They may not want to get negative reps. Or have other people know who they are. Ya never know. lol

Sock puppets aren't any better than trolls. They're just cowards who don't have the balls to post their hate under their own name. Probably because they know what they're doing is wrong.

Seriously, though, has anyone ever started a thread to praise a reviewer?

[Madeleine]

Yes, ___ once got a thread that was started to praise one of her reviews. It was nice.

And immediately a troll arrived to say that ___ is a bad bad stargate fan who likes [character X] far too much, and anyone liking her reviews should bear in mind that she's a bad bad stargate fan who...

But I suppose it's no different from "the reviewer didn't watch the show" or "The reviewer doesn't know what Stargate's about" and other such rudely-written opinions presented as 'fact'.

I used to write reviews for a website myself. I'd go to a lot of trouble to make the reviews readable and interesting. Even when I didn't think the ep in question was watchable or interesting. It sometimes meant I'd write something a bit toungue in cheek, a bit flippant, a bit exaggerated to get a point across in a fun way. So it's easy for me to understand why another reviewer might do something similar.

[ShadowMaat]

May I express my complete disgust and bitter disappointment over the decision to retract the review? I don't recall seeing anything bad in that review, certainly not enough to warrant its removal and while speculation about the decision is forbidden, I will say that the choice has left me... wary.

[golfbooy]

I don't really want to get involved in this, but I do feel the need to express my own diappointment with the decision to retract the review of The Tower. If it was taken down by the request of the reviewer, that's one thing. I can certainly understand someone who does this stuff in their free time not wanting to subject themselves to the berating and ranting that Ms. Fetter has had to endure over her opinions regarding The Tower. However, if the review was retracted simply because it offended the delicate sensibilities of some fans, then I'd be remiss not to say something. I'm sure no one wants to use the big "C" word, but this is quite a large step in the direction of censorship. I don't recall reading anything even remotely offensive or out of line in Ms. Fetter's reiview. For my part, I thought the review was well written and quite fair to the episode. I hope this experience doesn't incline Ms. Fetter to stop writing episode reviews. And I certainly hope that future episode reviews won't shy away from honest critcism whenever the reviewer sees fit to include it.

[Scyld]

I shall also chime in here. Why was the review taken down? It was a perfectly good review!

[ShadowMaat]

After a number of concerns were e-mailed to us, I went back and reviewed the review of "The Tower," and made the decision to retract it. More about this decision may be forthcoming, but till then I would encourage everyone not to speculate on it.

Thanks!

So. NOT Sharon's decision, obviously.