Infantry Weapons

[TheHumanElement]

I don't understand why Stargate uses p-90's and other type of machine gun weaponry. Shouldn't the members of Stargate program be using more advanced weaponry then just machine guns? They built advanced fighters. They built frakin starships. But they can't build a better machine gun? The wraith are a perfect example of why they need more advanced weapons.

I understand that TPTB use machine guns because it's cheaper in terms of production costs and it has a stronger impact of screen, but at least if they do use machine gun-like technology they should suggest that the weapons used are more advanced versions of their real world equivalents.

A perfect example of a space opera which uses more advanced mass projectile weapons is in the video game "Mass Effect". The in game explanation is better then the one below. The basic idea is that the guns used in Mass effect don't use gun powder. Instead they use a "mass accelerator". I think this means the guns uses a strong field of energy like an EM field to project the bullets. The bullets are much smaller so the gun can carry more ammunition but each bullet still packs the punch of a traditional bullet. read the quote below. It's from Wikipedia.

Ammunition is unlimited; instead of needing to reload, a weapon will build up heat until it overheats, and cannot fire until it has sufficiently cooled down. In-game, the reasoning for this is that weapons are loaded with "blocks" of ammunition material, and each round fired is sheared off from this central supply of ammunition. The rounds themselves are described as being the size of a "grain of sand" and are launched through "mass accelerator" technology at extremely high speeds. Firing a weapon continuously or using a weapon that one is untrained with will result in decreased accuracy, represented by an expanding targeting reticule. The more Talent points that are spent on a weapon type, the greater the weapon type's accuracy and damage.

I think adding a similar idea to canon would make more sense within the context of the show.

[Hong3103]

Mass Effect is one good game!... But has the SGC or their "Skunkwerkes" program been able to scale down the rail guns used by the 304's. I'm assuming not because we haven't seen them.

[Stewart5]

I'm pretty sure it was .45. It makes sense to use that on the Wraith than the puny 9mm Baretta.

There is nothing puny bout a 9mm. The only problem is that is a pistol round. A 9mm to the head, three or four times would be enough to stop those bloody wraith getting back up again!!!

"mass accelerator".



I think adding a similar idea to canon would make more sense within the context of the show.

Mass Accelerator, using magnets and the like, are basically railguns. And the point that SGC is in the show, they have no way of scaling it donw sufficiently to a man portable scale. The smallest you'll see tham for a while is the ones in seige part 2 and 3

[Stewart5]

As fo the big fights, that is whats I want to see more of. Space and ground, i suppose.
Masses of USAF, USMC etc, and in SGA, British Army, RMC, German Paras, USMc etc would be awesome. All the bullets ever, and Wraith getting hoosed!

*hoosed, fromt he phrase 'Take him to the house', shortened to 'housed', pronounced with a Stirling accent.*

[Hong3103]

There is nothing puny bout a 9mm. The only problem is that is a pistol round. A 9mm to the head, three or four times would be enough to stop those bloody wraith getting back up again!!!

True... but how many scenes have you seen when somebody was at point blank range and unloaded a magazine into a Wraith when a head shot was all that was needed...

I don't blame Shepard for moving away from the 9mm round to the 45ACP. Most US Special Forces prefer to use the 45 over the 9mm. There's more stopping power and even the more recent 45ACP guns can carry more than 7 rounds.

[Womble]

I don't blame Shepard for moving away from the 9mm round to the 45ACP. Most US Special Forces prefer to use the 45 over the 9mm. There's more stopping power and even the more recent 45ACP guns can carry more than 7 rounds.

The obsession with .45 is a peculiarly American thing. Neither the Russians, nor the European militaries feel the need for calibers higher than 9mm (although the Russians have lately moved towards higher powered 9mm variants, for increased penetration).

Handguns generally find little use in modern warfare, so by and large the caliber differences simply don't matter. Even when they do matter, the muzzle energy of both rounds is about the same. The .45 supposedly has an advantage in stopping power (never statistically confirmed), while the 9mm has better penetration, flatter trajectory and 1.5-2 times more ammo in the clip (sure, you can squeeze 14 rounds into a .45 clip too- you'll get one fat and awkward pistol grip though). It just isn't the kind of tradeoff that's worth making a big deal over.

[BeccaBeez]

I think the seige of atlantis was the greatest SG battle

I think in terms of Infantry battle scenes, the battle between Hathor & her minions and the group of volunters the SGC sent to rescue SG-1 and SG-1 themselves was excellent (SG episodes 222 & 301).

How much do you think the avoidence of big battle scenes has been due to buget constraints though...?

[Hong3103]

The obsession with .45 is a peculiarly American thing. Neither the Russians, nor the European militaries feel the need for calibers higher than 9mm (although the Russians have lately moved towards higher powered 9mm variants, for increased penetration).

You can thank the Colt 1911 for that obsession. That weapon was the official side arm of the U.S. Armed Forces until the 1990's when we switched to the 9mm Beretta.

Handguns generally find little use in modern warfare, so by and large the caliber differences simply don't matter.

Your right a pistol shouldn't be the main weapon the battlefield... it just enables you to keep fighting to your rifle or until you are cleared to reload and use your rifle. I'm sure there were several scenes where Shepard runs out of ammo in his P-90 and switched to his sidearm because the enemy just kept coming.

As it was stated earlier accuracy is far more important than the caliber of the round. But combat is significantly different than shooting a target from the 25 yard line at the firing range. If I was forced into using a hand gun against the Wraith in the middle of a fight I'd probably want a round that will pack a bigger punch rather than just holes in them.

Even when they do matter, the muzzle energy of both rounds is about the same. The .45 supposedly has an advantage in stopping power (never statistically confirmed), while the 9mm has better penetration, flatter trajectory and 1.5-2 times more ammo in the clip (sure, you can squeeze 14 rounds into a .45 clip too- you'll get one fat and awkward pistol grip though). It just isn't the kind of tradeoff that's worth making a big deal over.

Well there are several polymer based .45ACP hand guns that carry more than the standard 7 rounds. Springfield XD 45ACP holds 14 in small slender handle. HK MK23/USP holds up 12.

I guess it all comes down to the shooter. I can see McKay sticking to the Beretta. Less recoil and he has more bullets to make up for his lack of accuracy. Shepard with the 1911 because he's trained with it and is experienced with the recoil.

[Hong3103]

I think in terms of Infantry battle scenes, the battle between Hathor & her minions and the group of volunters the SGC sent to rescue SG-1 and SG-1 themselves was excellent (SG episodes 222 & 301).

How much do you think the avoidence of big battle scenes has been due to buget constraints though...?

Well the budget is what allows the episode to be an extravagant all out battle scene. You have to pay for the ammunition expended, the qualified extras to handle the weapons, number of stunt men, explosives used, any CG....

My personal favorite was 718 Heroes PT2 when the Jaffa ambush SG1 when they go help back up another SG Team.

[Stewart5]

Well the budget is what allows the episode to be an extravagant all out battle scene. You have to pay for the ammunition expended, the qualified extras to handle the weapons, number of stunt men, explosives used, any CG....

My personal favorite was 718 Heroes PT2 when the Jaffa ambush SG1 when they go help back up another SG Team.

That episode was great. Take that, you Jaffa lackkeys....hahahah

As it was stated earlier accuracy is far more important than the caliber of the round. But combat is significantly different than shooting a target from the 25 yard line at the firing range. If I was forced into using a hand gun against the Wraith in the middle of a fight I'd probably want a round that will pack a bigger punch rather than just holes in them.

Like I said, two in the head from a 9mm would stop anyone getting up. Even a wraith. And military are trained to put two in the chest and one in the head.....so why do the wraith never get shot in the face??? Plot shields.....
And everyone is talking about the Berretta.......in 9mm terms, the only gun you should ever want or need would be the Browning HP. Its a 9mm version of the 1911 colt .45. That would be great against the Wraith.

[Womble]

And everyone is talking about the Berretta.......in 9mm terms, the only gun you should ever want or need would be the Browning HP. Its a 9mm version of the 1911 colt .45. That would be great against the Wraith.

HP is a completely different design from ther 1911. In fact, it was designed at the time when the 1911 patents have not yet expired, and Browning had to avoid using any of the the patented features of the 1911 (his own design as well, ironically; he sold the patent rights to Colt some time before that).

I carry a Browning HP. It's a nice gun that served well for a hundred years, but it's hardly the best. Modern designs like Glocks, SIGs and HK pistols are by far superior.

[Stewart5]

HP is a completely different design from ther 1911. In fact, it was designed at the time when the 1911 patents have not yet expired, and Browning had to avoid using any of the the patented features of the 1911 (his own design as well, ironically; he sold the patent rights to Colt some time before that).

I carry a Browning HP. It's a nice gun that served well for a hundred years, but it's hardly the best. Modern designs like Glocks, SIGs and HK pistols are by far superior.

Sorry. I read my post there. I didn't mean it to sound like it was made by the same people or anything. Aesthetically, they look quite similar, that was what I was meaning..... I wouldn't rate many modern weapons over it, except maybe for weight or reliability. The glock is one of the most overrated guns ever. Yes, it is good. No, it is not all that.

[Hong3103]

Like I said, two in the head from a 9mm would stop anyone getting up. Even a wraith. And military are trained to put two in the chest and one in the head.....so why do the wraith never get shot in the face??? Plot shields.....

And everyone is talking about the Berretta.......in 9mm terms, the only gun you should ever want or need would be the Browning HP. Its a 9mm version of the 1911 colt .45. That would be great against the Wraith.

I guess the the stunt guys wearing the Wrait Warrior outfit aren't too keen on squibs blowing up in their face...

It's more on the shooter than the caliber. You're right accurate shots matter more than the caliber. Some of my other Marine buddies that are Infantry or work closely with them all tell me the same thing. They would rather use a bigger caliber round because in the heat of combat you don't have time to aim in 100% accurately like you would if you were at the range. So they'd settle for a round with a little more umph to give them more time to reload their rifle or what not than a round that would penetrate more.

I carry a Browning HP. It's a nice gun that served well for a hundred years, but it's hardly the best. Modern designs like Glocks, SIGs and HK pistols are by far superior.

Para Ordnance, Kimber, Springfield make some good quality 1911. Not to mention some really good polymer pistols too.

[Stewart5]

I guess the the stunt guys wearing the Wrait Warrior outfit aren't too keen on squibs blowing up in their face...

It's more on the shooter than the caliber. You're right accurate shots matter more than the caliber. Some of my other Marine buddies that are Infantry or work closely with them all tell me the same thing. They would rather use a bigger caliber round because in the heat of combat you don't have time to aim in 100% accurately like you would if you were at the range. So they'd settle for a round with a little more umph to give them more time to reload their rifle or what not than a round that would penetrate more.

Well, tho thats true, thats why u get trained you fire well in combat. British soldiers have been trained to make consecutive shots well with their weapons. Considering everyone uses the NATO round, i would have thot it true of everyone. My Marine corporal tells me that there is no point havin a big, big gun if u can't hit. And I tend to agree with him...(not just cos he'll beast me)

[Stewart5]

Hey, guys and guyettes, lets keep this going. I want more than just devolving into a real-weapon debate. Lets compare other stuff to eqach other, not jusy wraith/jaffa/ori vs P-90s.