SG universe vs Species 8472 had to be done

[Mister Oragahn]

How exactly is this relevant to 8472? Nanite hand through the head would equal one less nanite hand.

Because I don't see any evidence that the immune defenses of S8472 specimen can destroy nanites made of neutronium.

Which replicator are we talking about here? The last time I checked neither of the two had any interest in biological creatures being integrated into their own.

The Milky Way ones were actually eager to reach a more complex biological type of form, and still craved for new technology. If that new tech is organic, so be it.

8472’s technology is integrated into their biology so unless the MW or PG replicators were trying to follow in the footsteps of the Borg I don’t see that scenario happening.

Borg naniprobes don't appear that tough. Seriously, sorry to wank it out, but we're speaking about a material which is incredibly solid.

Not that it would help anyways if they are able to resist assimilation from the Borg (who is a lot better at the organic assimilation than the replicators are) there’s little hope of the MW/PG replicators doing it.

1. What's the evidence that the Borg are not superior at assimilation?
2. Why would assimilation be a requirement to defeat S8472? In Trek, it was because that species was very powerful, relative to most Trek groups. That's not the case against the Replicators. A single unshielded medusa ship took several direct hits from seven O'neills before exploding... and that didn't even destroy the millions of blocks which rained down on Orilla.

Fluidic space, being full of matter under fluid state, is a virtually endless pool of raw matter for the Replicators to use. I don't see how S8472 could muster enough ships to stop the replicator numbers growing once they'd be swimming in that eternal pool of matter.

Creating Weir and the others were basically copy and paste for the replicator that is of course having had access to the originals.

That doesn't make them bad. It perfectly shows how the asurans could replicate biological lifeforms. The Milky Way ones were basically a return to the roots, just less stupid. See, the bombardment of the ships above Orilla didn't even destroy the neutronium based replicator that was in that ship.
Borgs don't replicate specimen element by element, they capture them, and then have them reproduce sexually, to implant the childs with more nanoprobes.
Replicators can either implant nanites or plug themselves into the spinal cord of humans to control them. They can do this with basic materials or with neutronium nanites.

Let's also not forget that the asuran were still greatly limited. The only human who managed to resist, for a brief time, the superior model that Replicarter was was Daniel, and he only did so because the replicators were using their entire collective to assimilate and compute the knowledge of ascension, somehow still printed in Daniel's mind as some kind of residual data.
Weir resisting implants over time and Oberoth, briefly, was less impressive due to asuran severe limitations.

Neutronium hand into 8472 is likely to result in one handless replicator. Unless it’s otherwise revised in the series, it’s assumed that any chemical, biological, or technological attack on 8472 on the cellular level would result in immediate neutralization by their immune system.

There is, of course, no evidence that their immune system defeated anything as tough as neutronium based nanites.
No bioligical component can crush neutronium.

Because the beam more than likely just grazed the ship… voyager would likely not survive a direct prolong beam hit.

No, it clearly hit the shield. Nothing of the beam missed. All the beam was poured into the ship's shields.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wivplBVrxeM

Evidence from?
I don’t recall ever seeing a bioship being hit by missile and the one bioship that collided with the cube shows up in a later episode with only minor damage.
There isn’t much info about the species.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVbu...eature=related

We see a bioship exploding on contact with a Cube, and other bioships destroyed by one single charge, fired by Voyager (likely a very specific upped charge, probably with help of Seven).
They're not invincible.

EDIT: Borg casualties:

8 planets destroyed.
312 vessels disabled.
4000621 Borg eliminated.

EDIT2: a good sum up of the two Scorpion episodes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V0XktZfE3I&NR=1

[Buba uognarf]

The first time voyager survived a direct hit it was a grazing hit and the sheer force of the blast sent the ship spinning, now that may be due to some funky impulse engine babble but its still an impressive display. The bio ship in question was also damaged which may contribute to the lack of total annihilation. Later on in the episode Voyager had been enhanced by the Borg.

Torpedo's aren't energy weapons, and they were defended against easily enough by the bio ships. I doubt rail guns would do any serious damage especially not before the said bio ship wasted the vessel.

I also doubt the replicators would be able to overcome 8472's immune system when said nanites struggled with doctor weir. They should be easily able to do what ever they wanted in a normal humans body but the series shows different.

It does come down to the replicators though, everyone else is screwed. Species 8472 could IMO destroy any replicator ship albeit with some difficulty, but I think they could do it. The problem is that they'd never be able to get them all so eventually the replicators would win. If they fought in fluidic space, species 8472 would wipe them out. I doubt the replicators would be able to create ships from the bio matter.

Edit: I see it was a direct hit, but the bio ship was still damaged.

[MacTX]

Because I don't see any evidence that the immune defenses of S8472 specimen can destroy nanites made of neutronium.

Borg naniprobes don't appear that tough. Seriously, sorry to wank it out, but we're speaking about a material which is incredibly solid.

and there isn’t any evidence that it wouldn’t. Their immune system was introduced to be able to overcome any biological, chemical or technological invasion. Modified Borg nano-probes happen to be a hidden door around this list; a door which the replicators don’t have a key to. Until the writers change that, replicator nanites fall under that list.

Neutronium is not an invincible alloy. Solar radiation can break it down as well MW replicator acid.

The only harm neutronium would do to 8472 is in the form of a bladed weapon .

The Milky Way ones were actually eager to reach a more complex biological type of form, and still craved for new technology. If that new tech is organic, so be it.

The replicators have shown no interest in assimilating bio-matter into their make up only the imitation of the humanoid form. They could have transformed weir into a hybrid yet decided to transform her into another of their kind. The fact that the transformation fail just shows how weak the nanites are at that task. If they can’t even assimilate weir, there’s no hope for them to do it against someone like 8472.

1.What's the evidence that the Borg are not superior at assimilation?
2. Why would assimilation be a requirement to defeat S8472? In Trek, it was because that species was very powerful, relative to most Trek groups. That's not the case against the Replicators. A single unshielded medusa ship took several direct hits from seven O'neills before exploding... and that didn't even destroy the millions of blocks which rained down on Orilla.

1. I’m assuming you mean to leave out the “not” ……
Because they can easily assimilate humanoids when the replicators struggle and then ultimately fail at the simple task of converting weir.

Spoiler:

their attempt in AOT was a bit better but still nowhere near the level of the Borg

Fluidic space, being full of matter under fluid state, is a virtually endless pool of raw matter for the Replicators to use. I don't see how S8472 could muster enough ships to stop the replicator numbers growing once they'd be swimming in that eternal pool of matter.

Human form replicators are made from neutronium not fluidic space material, which from the looks of it looks like organic fluid not raw metal alloys.

That doesn't make them bad. It perfectly shows how the asurans could replicate biological lifeforms. The Milky Way ones were basically a return to the roots, just less stupid. See, the bombardment of the ships above Orilla didn't even destroy the neutronium based replicator that was in that ship.
Borgs don't replicate specimen element by element, they capture them, and then have them reproduce sexually, to implant the childs with more nanoprobes.
Replicators can either implant nanites or plug themselves into the spinal cord of humans to control them. They can do this with basic materials or with neutronium nanites.

It doesn’t say much about their abilities, like I said; it’s just copy and paste. It’s like giving high praise to a food replicator aboard Enterprise E because it can replicate the food selections programmed into the computer database.

The human form replicators made of neutronium were destroyed by the bombardment. Fifth and carter escaped from the main ship prior to exiting hyperspace while one-four are presumably destroyed in the ambush as they’re never seen again.

Borg don’t reproduce sexually, they assimilate (including children).

How is the replicator blocks' ability to tap into the spinal cord of humans to control its motor functions applicable to fighting 8472? Are they planning on using zombie humanoids to do the fighting?

There is, of course, no evidence that their immune system defeated anything as tough as neutronium based nanites.
No bioligical component can crush neutronium.

The writer’s original specs for the species would say so unless you are saying neutronium nanites isn’t classified as technology? Crushing in the physical sense, I doubt it but their immune probably work like other immune systems by consuming the invader rather than physically crushing it (which doesn’t make sense for them to crush in that fashion).

No, it clearly hit the shield. Nothing of the beam missed. All the beam was poured into the ship's shields.

We see a bioship exploding on contact with a Cube, and other bioships destroyed by one single charge, fired by Voyager (likely a very specific upped charge, probably with help of Seven).
They're not invincible.

EDIT: Borg casualties:

8 planets destroyed.
312 vessels disabled.
4000621 Borg eliminated.

I actually do have the Borg collector set DVD.

For the first encounter, the first beam misses the ship entirely while the second beam hit the shields for a fraction of a second sending the ship into the spin. The second encounter, the first beam hit (not shown on screen but is reported to have hit secondary hull… aft part of the ship) takes out transporters, shields, and weapons. The third encounter is in fluidic space, the first beam misses the ship while the second one grazes the ship at the mid section between the saucer section and the drive section. Shields and weapon get knocked out. The fourth encounter is after they arrive back in normal space. The first and only beam hit the rear lip section for a split second blowing presumably molten metal away.

In every meeting, the initial short burst (whether it is grazing or impacting) pretty much renders the ship defenseless with subsequent beams (if Voyager had been hit again) probably destroying the ship. Which is why I say Voyager could never survive a prolong direct hit.

We don’t actually see the bioship exploding, just the cube exploding and the ship presumable being consumed by the eruption. The ship appearing in a latter episode would mean it survived the Cube’s explosion.

The bioship destroyed in fluidic space was done so with the modified borg nanoprobe (the whole reason from the brief Borg/Voyager alliance was to make that weapon).

I never said they were invincible, just difficult to destroy by conventional weapons.

Isn’t that more vessels than the Tauri, Gould, Wraith, Asuran, and Ori invasion fleet combined?

[MacTX]

Torpedo's aren't energy weapons, and they were defended against easily enough by the bio ships. I doubt rail guns would do any serious damage especially not before the said bio ship wasted the vessel.

Could you elaborate? The modified Borg nanoprobe torpedoes seem to have done their job although with some sort of delay or were you referring to something else? The torpedo impact itself didn’t seem to phase them at all.

[Buba uognarf]

Could you elaborate? The modified Borg nanoprobe torpedoes seem to have done their job although with some sort of delay or were you referring to something else? The torpedo impact itself didn’t seem to phase them at all.

Thats what i meant. If kinetic weapons are so effective the impact of the torpedo would have done something. Obviously the Borg nanoprobe torpedo's destroyed the Bio ships. Direct torpedo hits did nothing, so I doubt rail guns or nukes (bar gatebusters) would do anything.

[mickhhh]

all as would would need to do is make a human form replicator and give mw replicator tech and our new asgard tech. programe the human form replicator to serve us and then set it onto Species 8472.
the replicators could make somthing like drones but put a human form replicator in it and that Species 8472 ship does not stand a chance

[Mister Oragahn]

and there isn’t any evidence that it wouldn’t. Their immune system was introduced to be able to overcome any biological, chemical or technological invasion. Modified Borg nano-probes happen to be a hidden door around this list; a door which the replicators don’t have a key to. Until the writers change that, replicator nanites fall under that list.

Unless you prove that the S8472 lifeforms have oraganic components stronger than neutronium based micromachines, the question is pretty much settled.

Neutronium is not an invincible alloy.

No, it's just naturally tough and incredibly massive.

Solar radiation can break it down as well MW replicator acid.

Never heard of solar radiations breaking it down. Solar radiations have nothing special.
The acid didn't break neutronium. The replicators were actually stuck outside the time dilation device the Asgards used, until the replicators found a microscopic crack and went through. From there, they advanced their species with a purpose, which was to (re)create more complex forms by using the neutronium as a raw material.

The only harm neutronium would do to 8472 is in the form of a bladed weapon.

I didn't say the contrary. My point was rather simple, though. It can be used to make a weapon, but it's also extremely tough as an adaptive and flexible armour.

The replicators have shown no interest in assimilating bio-matter into their make up only the imitation of the humanoid form.

Possibly because a human wasn't much of a tasty technological piece. However, when a whole new level of technology, developped from another dimension, is behind everything that goes between creating transdimensional rifts to beams that blow planets up, yes, that the replicators like.

They could have transformed weir into a hybrid yet decided to transform her into another of their kind. The fact that the transformation fail just shows how weak the nanites are at that task. If they can’t even assimilate weir, there’s no hope for them to do it against someone like 8472.

Like I said, the Asurans are limited by code. Replicarter is what you get with an unlimited reploid.

1. I’m assuming you mean to leave out the “not” ……
Because they can easily assimilate humanoids when the replicators struggle and then ultimately fail at the simple task of converting weir.

Spoiler:

their attempt in AOT was a bit better but still nowhere near the level of the Borg

They need to inject nanoprobes, which take a bit of time to get control of humans.

Spoiler:

As seen in AOT, it's instantaneous. Plug 'n play. You remove the plug, the human is back. You plug the link into the neck, the human is a puppet. More, you destroy the human, and the replicator shell still maintains a humanoid shape.

Human form replicators are made from neutronium not fluidic space material, which from the looks of it looks like organic fluid not raw metal alloys.

The reploids wouldn't bother, but the standard bugs would use that fluid matter, for the simple fact that if the S8472 can grow something solid and as complex as cannons and consoles out of this, the replicators can as well.
And this resource is basically all over the place.

It doesn’t say much about their abilities, like I said; it’s just copy and paste.
It’s like giving high praise to a food replicator aboard Enterprise E because it can replicate the food selections programmed into the computer database.

"Just" must be the understatement of the year, because as far as I see, the Borg don't create perfect copies out from the blue. They are cyborgs, and humans are a tad more complicated than a cup of tea or a turkey sandwhich.

The human form replicators made of neutronium were destroyed by the bombardment.
Fifth and carter escaped from the main ship prior to exiting hyperspace while one-four are presumably destroyed in the ambush as they’re never seen again.

Hello? Thor picks up the replicator left floating in orbit of Orilla. Ok, they had to reactivate a robot which has been disabled after his ship got hit multiple times by the Asgards' latest toys of destruction.
It's at that moment that they tested the ancient BFG. All other weapons totally failed to stop the reploid, as usual.

Borg don’t reproduce sexually, they assimilate (including children).

Replicators don't reproduce sexually either. Still, when they want to make a copy of an individual, with all the personnal traits, habits and memories, they can.

How is the replicator blocks' ability to tap into the spinal cord of humans to control its motor functions applicable to fighting 8472? Are they planning on using zombie humanoids to do the fighting?

Now, just using zombie S8472. A good way to study them calmly.

The writer’s original specs for the species would say so unless you are saying neutronium nanites isn’t classified as technology? Crushing in the physical sense, I doubt it but their immune probably work like other immune systems by consuming the invader rather than physically crushing it (which doesn’t make sense for them to crush in that fashion).

Ah, here we go, again. Natural organic gizmos consuming neutronium nanites... that can adapt as well, just in case you forgot.

I actually do have the Borg collector set DVD.

For the first encounter, the first beam misses the ship entirely...

It's not the first time we see bioships missing such large targets so easily.

...while the second beam hit the shields for a fraction of a second sending the ship into the spin.

Yes, as proved by the video, the Voyager takes the absolute entirety of the second beam. It is not a grazing beam at all.

The second encounter, the first beam hit (not shown on screen but is reported to have hit secondary hull… aft part of the ship) takes out transporters, shields, and weapons. The third encounter is in fluidic space, the first beam misses the ship while the second one grazes the ship at the mid section between the saucer section and the drive section. Shields and weapon get knocked out. The fourth encounter is after they arrive back in normal space. The first and only beam hit the rear lip section for a split second blowing presumably molten metal away.

The last hit occured after borg modification were added to the hull.

In every meeting, the initial short burst (whether it is grazing or impacting) pretty much renders the ship defenseless with subsequent beams (if Voyager had been hit again) probably destroying the ship. Which is why I say Voyager could never survive a prolong direct hit.

Ok.

We don’t actually see the bioship exploding, just the cube exploding and the ship presumable being consumed by the eruption.

The bioship's main body is linear:



I managed to stop on frames which show the main body apparently breaking up. I'm actually trying to obtain better images from somewhere else.

The ship appearing in a latter episode would mean it survived the Cube’s explosion.

It's another one.

The bioship destroyed in fluidic space was done so with the modified borg nanoprobe (the whole reason from the brief Borg/Voyager alliance was to make that weapon).

Is there any solid reason why the replicators couldn't get around the immune defense system of S8472?

I never said they were invincible, just difficult to destroy by conventional weapons.

That's good, the Replicator hardly use conventional weapons.

Isn’t that more vessels than the Tauri, Gould, Wraith, Asuran, and Ori invasion fleet combined?

It doesn't say they're all cubes. If you count beyond the ha'taks, the Goa'uld have many other ships, from bombers to troop transport to scout ships etc.
The Wraith. Any evidence from war time recounts indicates way greater numbers than the derelicts they use now, and better ships at that. You don't capture ZPM powered Auroras with the **** they have today that gets blown up within seconds.
The Asurans barely started the production of ships and during their whole industrial era, that is, mere months, they put out dozens and dozens of ships. We just have numbers on the Auroras, around 42 by First Strike time, and more later on, without counting the frigates.
The Tau'ri don't count, they're negligible, and the Ori are twats, but who were so powerful that they didn't see a need for more ships. It's not like they had enemies able to put up a good fight, due to some insane tech.
The Borg, in comparison, have been going for millenia, if not millions of years, and assimilating on and on. Comparatively, their numbers actually pale.

[Invictus]

Well, my opinion is simple. At first I didn't know how where the Species 8472, then I watched the episodes where this species appeared well, it is pretty simple, this species can kill anything from the SG Universe.

[SoulReaver]

I'd give this one to the 8472s, albeit a difficult victory if the replicators get involved (I mean the MW ones, not those ridiculous PG copies)
very doubtful the replicators could assimilate one of those aliens or their tech, use organic stuff from their ships/realm to replicate, or adapt to their "bioguns". these aliens are just too...alien :|
plus the raw firepower from those bioguns eclipses pretty much everything seen in the SG-verse

[MacTX]

Thats what i meant. If kinetic weapons are so effective the impact of the torpedo would have done something. Obviously the Borg nanoprobe torpedo's destroyed the Bio ships. Direct torpedo hits did nothing, so I doubt rail guns or nukes (bar gatebusters) would do anything.

What I can’t figure out is if the volley the cube fired at the bioship prior to its collision with it were torpedoes or energy weapons. The on screen graphics look identical to the torpedoes Voyager fired in fluidic space. And also why exactly were those torpedoes green in appearance, from all the onscreen dialogue, we know they were federation torpedoes (which are suppose to be amber/red) with Borg nanoprobes encased inside.

[MacTX]

Unless you prove that the S8472 lifeforms have oraganic components stronger than neutronium based micromachines, the question is pretty much settled.

No, it's just naturally tough and incredibly massive.

Then we’re at an impasse I would say. If you intend to use 8472 like the Trek writers presented them, then there’s no way neutronium nanites would survive 8472’s immune system. Otherwise you’re just picking and choosing the 8472 characteristics you want to use and which you want to ignore.

And you give far too much credit to the strength of neutronium when it had difficulties overcoming normal humanoid body.

Never heard of solar radiations breaking it down. Solar radiations have nothing special.
The acid didn't break neutronium. The replicators were actually stuck outside the time dilation device the Asgards used, until the replicators found a microscopic crack and went through. From there, they advanced their species with a purpose, which was to (re)create more complex forms by using the neutronium as a raw material.

The Return part 2... Naim... floating in space for a month... harsh conditions... disabled

It was mention by Thor during his briefing with SG1, when they set the trap, they knew the replicators would be able to get through the neutronium shell to the device so he set the timer with enough time to evaculate his people while at the same time not giving them the needed time to get through… he just never calculated that there would be human form replicators present.

I didn't say the contrary. My point was rather simple, though. It can be used to make a weapon, but it's also extremely tough as an adaptive and flexible armour.

I’m not degrading the strength of neutronium, it exists as one of the strongest alloys in ST as well but you have to consider what has been presented as far as 8472 specs. No matter how strong it is, 8472’s defense should be able to consume it on a microscopic level. Unless that is changed by the writers, I just don’t see how neutronium nanites would do any harm to 8472 cells.

Possibly because a human wasn't much of a tasty technological piece. However, when a whole new level of technology, developped from another dimension, is behind everything that goes between creating transdimensional rifts to beams that blow planets up, yes, that the replicators like.

Which is a big assumption and based on what we know, that’s a far off assumption. Nothing presented in the series wuld suggest they are capable of integrating organic components into their mechanical technology. They are stricky machines and until the writers change that, that’s what they’ll remain. Wraiths have organic components in their technology which the Asurans seem to have no interest in. The Asuran auroras may be powerful but would be that much more powerful with the organic hull armor and that’s assuming they would be able to integrate machine and organic in that fashion.

Like I said, the Asurans are limited by code. Replicarter is what you get with an unlimited reploid.

It’s still no excuse. The Asurans are still a bunch of feeble replicators. If they are that limited, they couldn’t hope to win a war against 8472. It’s been shown time and time again, that advanced organics (and sometimes regular organics) can be extremely formidable against replicators. An organic race such as 8472 should have no problems.
Replicarter was one of the biggest disappoints… she had so much potential yet was brought down by Daniel.

They need to inject nanoprobes, which take a bit of time to get control of humans.

Spoiler:

As seen in AOT, it's instantaneous. Plug 'n play. You remove the plug, the human is back. You plug the link into the neck, the human is a puppet. More, you destroy the human, and the replicator shell still maintains a humanoid shape.

Spoiler:

It’s still a far more total and complete control, you get total mind and body. In AOT it looked as though the blocks implanted itself throughout the body which helped with the motor functions which was why the replicator block skeleton was there after the body had been blown up. Essentially the reason they were able to do things with the body was because they were moving the blocks which in turn move the body. That would explain the constant replicator block grind sound during movement and the leftover replicator block skeletal frame after the bomb blast. It’s like you said, basically a human puppet.

The reploids wouldn't bother, but the standard bugs would use that fluid matter, for the simple fact that if the S8472 can grow something solid and as complex as cannons and consoles out of this, the replicators can as well.
And this resource is basically all over the place.

Still no evidence that the bugs would want organic integration. They only thing shown in AOT is that they’d be more likely to control organic through machine methods rather than become actual organic machines.

"Just" must be the understatement of the year, because as far as I see, the Borg don't create perfect copies out from the blue. They are cyborgs, and humans are a tad more complicated than a cup of tea or a turkey sandwhich.

That is essential what the replicators are doing. Like I said, it’s no different than ordering food from a food replicator.
The Borg don’t create humans at all, they assimilate them. The only exception that comes to mind is the drone “ONE” who was created from the ground up from DNA samples from one of voyager crew. How well the man and the machine were integrated in that scenario was far better than any other drone (maybe a glimpse into the Borg drone of the future?).

Hello? Thor picks up the replicator left floating in orbit of Orilla. Ok, they had to reactivate a robot which has been disabled after his ship got hit multiple times by the Asgards' latest toys of destruction.
It's at that moment that they tested the ancient BFG. All other weapons totally failed to stop the reploid, as usual.

And would have remained floating (like Niam) if Thor hadn’t beam him in and reactivated him. The bombardment still left him essential dead.

Replicators don't reproduce sexually either. Still, when they want to make a copy of an individual, with all the personnal traits, habits and memories, they can.

yes, I already know this. This also is essential copy/paste as well. It’s efficient I’ll grant it that.

Now, just using zombie S8472. A good way to study them calmly.

that’s a huge assumption that they would be able to do this. They would have more success killing the thing and then studying it.

Ah, here we go, again. Natural organic gizmos consuming neutronium nanites... that can adapt as well, just in case you forgot. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PFAFE%7E1.LUA/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

This is sci fi afterall. It’s not out of the ordinary for organics to eat through metal. The xenomorph from the Alien movies were able to do this. We’re not talking about physical crushing but rather dissolving or cellular consumption. A race with an immune system able to destroy any cellular attack should be more than capable of performing that function. You have to leave out what you know about organics in the SG universe sense and see it from another perspective. It is after all a species from a completely alien realm.

It's not the first time we see bioships missing such large targets so easily.

nor is it the last. They seem to have targeting problems with Voyager. Some people might call it main character shield but I’ll just leave it at bad aim.

Yes, as proved by the video, the Voyager takes the absolute entirety of the second beam. It is not a grazing beam at all.

for a split second and what is the point of this? Voyager would have been destroyed if it hadn’t escaped when it did.
Oddly enough, it’s the first and last time shield impact is seen. All subsequent impact is directly though shields.

The last hit occured after borg modification were added to the hull.

and what is the point of this? It’s still a hit yet short enough to not destroy the ship. A more prolong beam would have.

It's another one.

The flashback scene shows it’s the same ship. The ship was damaged making its return to fluidic space impossible stranding it in normal space and leaving the creature to be hunted by the Hirogen before voyagers’ involvement.

Is there any solid reason why the replicators couldn't get around the immune defense system of S8472?

Because replicator nanites are unable to overcome relatively simple organics (as compared with 8472 that is) as humans. They failed miserable there when they should have had no resistance. I understand its character shield that it happen that way, but it still weaken the replicator position. It took something as persistent as Borg nanoprobe which had to be modified for the task to accomplish the feat and even then it was only good to cancel out the cells rather than assimilate it. Not to mention 8472 now also have the technology to study so there’s no telling if that would still pose a danger to them. The genetic code for this creature is 100 times denser than human code. I wouldn’t say it would be 100 times more resistant but the resistance value would be far beyond the failed human attempt.

[MacTX]

That's good, the Replicator hardly use conventional weapons.

which is why a Neutronium sword through 8472 might work.

It doesn't say they're all cubes. If you count beyond the ha'taks, the Goa'uld have many other ships, from bombers to troop transport to scout ships etc.
The Wraith. Any evidence from war time recounts indicates way greater numbers than the derelicts they use now, and better ships at that. You don't capture ZPM powered Auroras with the **** they have today that gets blown up within seconds.
The Asurans barely started the production of ships and during their whole industrial era, that is, mere months, they put out dozens and dozens of ships. We just have numbers on the Auroras, around 42 by First Strike time, and more later on, without counting the frigates.
The Tau'ri don't count, they're negligible, and the Ori are twats, but who were so powerful that they didn't see a need for more ships. It's not like they had enemies able to put up a good fight, due to some insane tech.
The Borg, in comparison, have been going for millenia, if not millions of years, and assimilating on and on. Comparatively, their numbers actually pale.

Probably regular cubes, tactical cubes and spheres, which are their main ships even though we actually only see regular cubes are sent in on the offensive. It’s still a lot of ships and that’s only a small fraction of their fleet.

I wouldn’t say the Borg was that old. Their assimilation technology didn’t really blossom till after BOBW. They must have encountered a race between then and First Contact that gave them that technology. At the first encounter with the enterprise it looked as though they were still manually assimilating humanoids rather than through the much more efficient nanoprobes. When they captured Picard he was just basically stunned with what looks like a type of hypospray device and was later manually changed to a Borg after his meeting with the hive mind. It would have been much more efficient (if they had nanoprobes at that time) to inject Picard and beam him back to the cube. By the time he finished his conversation with the collective, he would have been well on his way to being a drone. They actually would have had no need to explain anything to him.

[Crazy Tom]

which is why a Neutronium sword through 8472 might work.

A metal spike through soemhting's brian, alien or otherwise, is pretty final.

Anyway:

1. Nanites heve bee shown to be able to replicate with only simple materials present: Weir's body, no neutronium. That's why they were so weak.

2. Ralicators bugs disolve any kind of mater with theri spray in order to use it as resources for the queen to make more bugs, no reason this shouldn't apply to fluidic space.

3. NIam......floating in space....for months......Not dead

4. There's nothing saying the can't replicate oranic machinery either.

5. OK, if they can't asimilate 8472 tech then they could just plug a few blocks into 8472 ship's nervours system and presto, replicator warships. And no imune systems is gonna break solid chunks of neutronium(choice material of replicators) apart.

6. 8472 imnune system dealt with things on a microscopc scale, they can't break down larger chunks of susperstrong alloy.

7. 8472's bad aim, goes really against them considering SG ships don't seem to be sufering from the same problems.

8. The reason only KEW are efective against bugs is that they absorbed energy blasts, therefor what makes you think that 8472's energy beams are any different, at worst the replicators turn their ship into a Trinity style thing, energy hits the hull, and gets routed to a main weapon, use 8472's power against them.

[Professor Chaos]

Is there any reason to think the MW Replicators can't board and eventually master, if not improve upon 8472 bio tech? Once they did that, they'd wipe out 8472 with ease.

As for Earth, with their current fleet, they'd be destroyed. A few dozen more ships and they might stand a chance.

I think the Ancients could take them out as well. Sure, energy weapons might be fairly useless against their ships, but what about drones? Fire a few dozen of those at a bioship and I have no doubt it will take it out. I'm certain a ZPM would be able to withstand several blasts from one of those ships, so that's not a problem.

Now "SG universe vs Species 8472", is there any doubt SG would win? ST tech is really pretty pitiful in comparison, so Voyager getting it's ass handed to them shouldn't even be brought up.

[mickhhh]

if the Asurans have Puddle jumper which they probly do they could build 1000s of them in months. i think they would be very good against bioship's. a few Puddle jumpers could probly win against 1 bioship cos the bioship could only take 1 out at a time and it might only take a few drones to take a bioship out.