More contries need ships

[Bray]

And Bray, as for the SA80, I've heard from many people (I'm from a military family) that it's a good rifle but it's got problems, it's been in the press for years. And yes, the press blow things up, and a lot of squaddies are actually really happy with the weapon, but it's still flawed - UK special forces pretty much refuse to use it, favouring Canadian version of the M4 and M16 instead (Diemaco c5 and c7 I think).

The original SA80 (L85A1) did have design flaws, but the new version (L85A2) of it is much improved, and much more reliable than the original. I don't know about the special forces, but I'd assume they would be issued with the SA80 as a standard assault rifle and then they'd be using some kind of SMG for CQB, maybe an MP5 or something along those lines.

Put it this way, I'd take an SA80 over an M16, M4, P90 anyday, it's more manouvreable than the M16 and M4 and has more of a punch than a P90. But equally I'd rather have an SMG for CQB as opposed to an assault rifle becasue they are less mobile and over penetration would be a problem.

Oh and to the people saying you couldn't build and launch a 304 in Britain because it's too densley populated, you're all forgetting about the north of Scotland, it's very sparsley populated. And if launched at night the chances of anyone seeing it would be pretty low. And even if anyone did see it they would just seem to be another UFO freak.

[Artheval_Pe]

the reason the french one has loads of ocean is so they can say they have the biggest by area but its a bit pathetic realy

You're absolutely right, the people on these islands were willing to join France only so that we can say that we have the second biggest Exclusive Economic Area.
In fact, it is what remains from the old french colonial empire.

It would be great to have different ship designs for each country

True, it would be cool but a lot more expensive. So it would be silly from an economical point of view.

I don't really think they should expose more countries to advance technology.

Why don't you think that other countries don't feel the same way about USA ?

And, for the experience, also consider the history of space exploration of the other countries...

[ykickamoocow]

True, it would be cool but a lot more expensive. So it would be silly from an economical point of view.

Actually it is reasonably common. About 15 years ago the Australian government bought the design of the of a Swedish submarine and the Australian Navy designed a new submarine using the technology they had bought from the Swedish.

[jenks]

All Australia would need is the plans to the 304 and we could build our own for a fraction of the price of most other countries as Australia has alot more resources than most other countries so the raw materials for the X304 would be alot cheaper.

As for Australia's economy my government spends Billions of dollars every year on modern equipment and im reasonably certain that per capita Australia is in the top 3 in the world on military spending.

Forget per capita, it's irrelevant. The raw materials needed would be the least expensive thing, what you'd really be spending money on would be the expertise and manpower, although back to resources, I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't have any naquadah or trinium mines...

[Maedhros_Sea]

A space ship isn't a 1400 ton diesel submarine with off the shelf tech.

American arrogance certainly would play a role in the decision. But I think the secrecy would be a bigger issue.

Congress passed a law to prevent export of the F-22 to pretect its technology.

[Artheval_Pe]

Congress passed a law to prevent export of the F-22 to pretect its technology.

The difference is that in the case of the F-22, its technology belongs to the United States who made the R&D for that, whereas in the case of the stargate, the R&D was made by the USA, but only because they possess the Stargate that was stolen in Egypt. The Stargate does not belong to the USA since they didn't manufactured it, and the technology acquiered with the Stargate does not belong either to the United States. It belongs to the entire human race. If it should belong to a country, that would be Egypt.

The thing is, that in reality, this would give an enourmous military advantage to the United States over the other nations in the world. I think that if the USA wouldn't want to share the technology while possessing military assets based on that technology, the world would be heading towards a war between the USA and the rest of the world.

Actually it is reasonably common. About 15 years ago the Australian government bought the design of the of a Swedish submarine and the Australian Navy designed a new submarine using the technology they had bought from the Swedish.

Indeed, it is common among navies, but we are talking about a several billion dollars spaceship using a technology that only the USA understand a bit. It would take decades to other countries to simply begin to understand some of the components. And for the asgard parts, it would take more likely a century.
The difference in the technology used by Australia until they bought Swedish designs and the technology used to make the design is not huge, whereas in the case of the 304, it is something that nobody has ever seen before.

[SG66]

. The Stargate does not belong to the USA since they didn't manufactured it, and the technology acquiered with the Stargate does not belong either to the United States. It belongs to the entire human race. If it should belong to a country, that would be Egypt.

if we are talking who it belongd to, it wouldn't be egypt, while it was found there, it wasn't built there, the stargate was brough to earth by Ra, so if we go into property rights, then we would have to drop the stargate off at a goa'uld planet.

besides, not to bash egypt, but the country is located in the most unstable region on earth where you can literlly buy anything, would it really be wise to give it back?

on to the 304, i think we could sell different versions of the ship to other countries, and how much weaponry and tech can depend on how much each country can afford. also, we would have to have the country, and all countries, including the USA, sign a binding treaty accepting that a computer code be inserted into all ships to keep them from being used against other countires of earth, in any way. that way it can help to keep a somewhat balance of power.

as for asgard tech, i think it should be used exclusivly with the USA and Great Brittain, maybe some of our other allies, i don't know them all. that way if poses less of a risk of the tech getting into the wrong hands.

[YodaMate]

Egads, there is no way Australia should be buying plans and raw materials for ships from the Americans. We can't even buy a helicopter in working condition, with top specs and keep it under budget.

Imagine the economic blow-out if we tried to get into the 304 business Poor Kev would never live that one down.

[ykickamoocow]

Forget per capita, it's irrelevant. The raw materials needed would be the least expensive thing, what you'd really be spending money on would be the expertise and manpower, although back to resources, I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't have any naquadah or trinium mines...

Im willing to bet that majority of the X304 is built from earth based materials. Think about it, America has built several interstelar warships and when you add up the weight its probably millions of tonnes worth of materials. There is no way the Stargate could be used to transport that much raw metals from one planet to another. So i can conclude that most of the X304 is built from materials from earth.

[Bray]

Im willing to bet that majority of the X304 is built from earth based materials. Think about it, America has built several interstelar warships and when you add up the weight its probably millions of tonnes worth of materials. There is no way the Stargate could be used to transport that much raw metals from one planet to another. So i can conclude that most of the X304 is built from materials from earth.

Yep except for the naqudah etc that would be needed for the hyperdrive and other things. If I remember correctly don't we have the Unas mining Naqudah for us?

[Artheval_Pe]

besides, not to bash egypt, but the country is located in the most unstable region on earth where you can literlly buy anything, would it really be wise to give it back?

Absolutely not. But that was an exemple.

the stargate was brough to earth by Ra, so if we go into property rights, then we would have to drop the stargate off at a goa'uld planet.

Well, since Râ was defeated, he doesn't have property rights to talk about. If I remenber well, the ressources found in a country belong to that country, not to the people who found it. Since the Stargate is not a natural ressource, but an alien ressource, I agree that it would be to restrictive and to dangerous to leave it in the hand of a single country, so it should be common property of mankind. The more logical choice would have been to put it in neutral territory. Since the americans got it and that option is too dangerous, it is logical that it remains under the NORAD.

as for asgard tech, i think it should be used exclusivly with the USA and Great Brittain, maybe some of our other allies, i don't know them all. that way if poses less of a risk of the tech getting into the wrong hands.

Great Brittain because the USA and the UK share a common language ?
Well, I don't want to be rude, but having the USA decide who diserve to get asgard tech and who don't is a bit... comptemtous. Having the USA decide which hands are "wrong" and which hands are "right" is also bit unfair.
Anyway, the tech is so complex that it would need very advanced R&D before it could be used for something else that what it was designed for (fight in space), so the risk would be limited.

But if some countries should be having it and other countries not, on what common basis ? Democracy ? Why not, but some Asian countries considerers democracy to be a western concept. They don't think it is their in culture, and they don't think they need it. What could we say against it ?
Peaceful countries ? Not very useful for the space war, and western countries are all at war somewhere in the world.
Whatever the choice is, it would give to the countries trusted with that technology an incredible advantage upon the others. Who has the right to make that call ?

I think that there are only two options with asgard tech :
Either other countries get the designs for 304, and then the technology is given to the entire world. It would'nt change a lot of things, because the ability to use the new asgard technology would depend on the previous technology level, so western countries would still have and advantage, and it would take decades before the other can work out anything out of asgard data.
Or, No one gets any ship or any designs and the asgard and space warfare tech is kept under control of the IOA or any international organisation.

i think it should be used exclusivly with the USA and Great Brittain

Thank you so much for that.
Next time I get a time-travelling device, I go back to the Independance war, I tell Lafayette to stay in France and I tell Napoleon not to sell the Louisiane to Jefferson.

Just kidding.

[SG66]

Great Brittain because the USA and the UK share a common language ?

not because of language, but because GB is our most trusted ally and one of the few countires that has the balls to go its own way.

but if some countries should be having it and other countries not, on what common basis ? Democracy ?

not democracy, because that would be us using the technology as an influence in the world, which i have stated in my previous posts, should not be done. it should be based on the current political situation in different countries, Example: terror run countrys. also it should be based on which countries would actually use the tech to defend the world and not wage war on it.

Why not, but some Asian countries considerers democracy to be a western concept. They don't think it is their in culture, and they don't think they need it.

i know, i'm from a chinese family.

I think that there are only two options with asgard tech :
Either other countries get the designs for 304, and then the technology is given to the entire world.

even countires like, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Hama's? that dosn't sound like a good idea to me.

i also agree an international organization would be a good idea, but it should be something other then the IOA, in my opinion they were built to hastily, we would need a charter, rules, etcbefore signing on to the organization.

Next time I get a time-travelling device, I go back to the Independance war, I tell Lafayette to stay in France and I tell Napoleon not to sell the Louisiane to Jefferson.

reason i didn't include france is because as we've seen in the news, they have plenty of their own problems to deal with, (paris riots anyone?)
having to build a space fleet would not help them.

[garhkal]

But the tatics are really the same

Negative. Why do you think in starwars some of the best ship captains were Mon cal? Is it cause they thought more in three D than huans being ocean going creatures? Then you would be right.

All Australia would need is the plans to the 304 and we could build our own for a fraction of the price of most other countries as Australia has alot more resources than most other countries so the raw materials for the X304 would be alot cheaper.

Having raw materials does not matter thjat much when trinium and naquida are what is used.. do they have any of that?

The Stargate does not belong to the USA since they didn't manufactured it, and the technology acquiered with the Stargate does not belong either to the United States. It belongs to the entire human race. If it should belong to a country, that would be Egypt.

If the eqyptians gave us permission to do that mining and take it, no it does not any more/../ Also by right of we took all the risks and RnD into it, gives us more of a right to what we get from it than anyone else..

Well, I don't want to be rude, but having the USA decide who diserve to get asgard tech and who don't is a bit... comptemtous. Having the USA decide which hands are "wrong" and which hands are "right" is also bit unfair.

Why? The Asgard gave it to us. It would be like if some friends of the family gave you 30000 bucks... since you got it, you are the one who decides whether your friends get any or not... NOT them.

[ykickamoocow]

Why? The Asgard gave it to us. It would be like if some friends of the family gave you 30000 bucks... since you got it, you are the one who decides whether your friends get any or not... NOT them.

I challenge you to find one quote where the Asgard said they were giving the US of A their technology. Im sure the technology was meant for all the people of earth.

[Aryk Celestis]

I too believe that other countries deserve the technology to build ships. In fact, they deserve to have the Asgard legacy while we're at it too. As said before, the Asgard gave the people of Earth their legacy, not the US; so it's only fair that the other members of the IOA (or at the very least Russia, China, U.K. and France) get access to everything. As it stands, the US have an enormous technological advantage over the rest of the world and if they wanted to, they could practically take it over (we saw how the US eventually abused their power in 'The Road Not Taken').

The other nations wouldn't be stupid enough to actually use it in situations on Earth as they wouldn't want to reveal the Stargate programme. It would be better if they remained united and worked together under sort of an ISGC. Of course, there's little chance of that happening...

In conclusion: yes, I definitely think that more countries need ships and it's best if we just give the tech to them (perhaps not everything at once, but steadily). If not, there's a risk they'll find a way to steal it or find other sources of technology (like an illegal Chinese Stargate programme, for example). Would be kind of interesting for a third SG-1 movie.