stargate V.S borg

[SG66]

that's the thing, the PG replicators were severely dumbed down, more so in BASMR where this went even beyond the suspension of disbelief threshold most of us had gotten used to by then

think about it - first & foremost, asurans are supposed to possess ancient tech (not all of it, but a great deal, they can make drones, zpms & apparently even drone-proof shields) and yet, to start with, no drones fired from the planet surface. a swarm of these - lost-city style - would've taken out the fleet in no time (and even if the ONeil-grade shields could intercept drones that would've only given the 304 crews enough time to say their prayers till the shields failed)
second, we had lower-grade shields on the auroras - these had orange shields that drones and even earth-missiles could bypass, compared for example to the white shield that surrounded the gate in s3 finale
and last but not least, no replicator-block ships. why did the asurans build standard ships instead of just assembling them out of nanites like the MW replicators did in new order ? this, combined with the asurans' superior adaptation ability would've made them unstoppable

its called a plot device, after all, without them the show woud be over and atlantis destroyed. in a real life situation, the assurans would be tougher and BAMSR would have failed.

[SoulReaver]

its called a plot device, after all, without them the show woud be over and atlantis destroyed. in a real life situation, the assurans would be tougher and BAMSR would have failed.

yeah well they could've just brought back the good ole MW replicators instead
no need for a boosted-with-ancient-tech-yet-dumbed-down-by-plot-device variant (not a plot device of this magnitude, anyway)

asurans were the biggest mistake in the SGA series. major letdown. oh well..

[SG66]

the assurans had so much potential, i mean they had all that knowledge, all that power. and they are wiped out so easily. it should have taken at least 2 episodes, if not more.

[SoulReaver]

that's the problem - they had too much potential

the asurans would be like MW replicators taking over an ancient city (the real replicators, no dumbing down with plot device & what not) - MW replicators were not as advanced as the ancients but they were certainly advanced enough to assimilate ancient tech if they gained access to it
real replicators + ancient tech = holocaust on a universal scale

=> they made the asurans too powerful. JM tried to "fix" some of the damage by implying that they did not possess full ancient knowledge, but even then they were still a notch above the MW bugs, so in the end the writers had no other choice than to resort to more plot holes & inconsistencies

[SG66]

it all sounds to confusing for my mind to understand, especially in my current state.

[darth_timon]

Here's how any scenario would play out- a Borg cube arrives in the SG-verse, and detects various vessels floating around, doing whatever it is those vessels do. The cube then approaches a vessel to learn more.

Depending on the vessel, the cube either gets blown apart, or takes some serious damage before overcoming the other vessel. Against a singular Ha'tak, it would stand a reasonable chance of victory (depending upon which Star Trek firepower calcs we use), but against the Replicators, Asgard or even Tauri (mark 9 nukes anyone?) the cube goes bye-bye.

If the first cube is defeated a second cube would then be dispatched. This cube would be armed with a bit more knowledge than before, but would still have the same vulnerabilities to physical weapons that the previous cube had. Ergo, another encounter with a Tauri vessel = another defeat for the Borg. Eventually the Borg would attack more aggressively, but the more debris solitary cubes leave behind is more for the SG-verse to study.

We could speculate endlessly as to whether the Replicators could assimilate a Borg cube before it self-destructs, but at the end of the day, there is simply no way of knowing who can do what in what time-scale. Replicators can take over ships very quickly (within seconds of boarding them), whilst the Borg Queen is capable of issuing a self-destruct order within seconds as well. If the Replicators do acquire a Borg vessel, then the Borg go down hard. Replicators armed with the knowledge of the Borg (to add to their own knowledge) would be formidable to any foe.

Could the Borg develop an understanding of hyperdrive? There's no reason to think so. Quantum Slipstream was a means of FTL faster than conventional transwarp drives yet the Borg don't use it- meaning they haven't been able to make it work for them. That said, if the Borg get an opportunity to set up transwarp conduits, they could do some real damage, if they attack in numbers.

I'm not going to make any declarations that the Goa'uld could defeat the full might of the Collective- I do want it understood that the SG-verse represents a far tougher set of opponents than the ST-verse does.

[SG66]

Here's how any scenario would play out- a Borg cube arrives in the SG-verse, and detects various vessels floating around, doing whatever it is those vessels do. The cube then approaches a vessel to learn more.

Depending on the vessel, the cube either gets blown apart, or takes some serious damage before overcoming the other vessel. Against a singular Ha'tak, it would stand a reasonable chance of victory (depending upon which Star Trek firepower calcs we use), but against the Replicators, Asgard or even Tauri (mark 9 nukes anyone?) the cube goes bye-bye.

If the first cube is defeated a second cube would then be dispatched. This cube would be armed with a bit more knowledge than before, but would still have the same vulnerabilities to physical weapons that the previous cube had. Ergo, another encounter with a Tauri vessel = another defeat for the Borg. Eventually the Borg would attack more aggressively, but the more debris solitary cubes leave behind is more for the SG-verse to study.

We could speculate endlessly as to whether the Replicators could assimilate a Borg cube before it self-destructs, but at the end of the day, there is simply no way of knowing who can do what in what time-scale. Replicators can take over ships very quickly (within seconds of boarding them), whilst the Borg Queen is capable of issuing a self-destruct order within seconds as well. If the Replicators do acquire a Borg vessel, then the Borg go down hard. Replicators armed with the knowledge of the Borg (to add to their own knowledge) would be formidable to any foe.

Could the Borg develop an understanding of hyperdrive? There's no reason to think so. Quantum Slipstream was a means of FTL faster than conventional transwarp drives yet the Borg don't use it- meaning they haven't been able to make it work for them. That said, if the Borg get an opportunity to set up transwarp conduits, they could do some real damage, if they attack in numbers.

I'm not going to make any declarations that the Goa'uld could defeat the full might of the Collective- I do want it understood that the SG-verse represents a far tougher set of opponents than the ST-verse does.

i agree, thats how i think things would play out, the borg sending one cube at a time to understand the capabilities of their possible opponents.

[Myles]

Here's how any scenario would play out- a Borg cube arrives in the SG-verse, and detects various vessels floating around, doing whatever it is those vessels do. The cube then approaches a vessel to learn more.

Depending on the vessel, the cube either gets blown apart, or takes some serious damage before overcoming the other vessel. Against a singular Ha'tak, it would stand a reasonable chance of victory (depending upon which Star Trek firepower calcs we use), but against the Replicators, Asgard or even Tauri (mark 9 nukes anyone?) the cube goes bye-bye.

If the first cube is defeated a second cube would then be dispatched. This cube would be armed with a bit more knowledge than before, but would still have the same vulnerabilities to physical weapons that the previous cube had. Ergo, another encounter with a Tauri vessel = another defeat for the Borg. Eventually the Borg would attack more aggressively, but the more debris solitary cubes leave behind is more for the SG-verse to study.

We could speculate endlessly as to whether the Replicators could assimilate a Borg cube before it self-destructs, but at the end of the day, there is simply no way of knowing who can do what in what time-scale. Replicators can take over ships very quickly (within seconds of boarding them), whilst the Borg Queen is capable of issuing a self-destruct order within seconds as well. If the Replicators do acquire a Borg vessel, then the Borg go down hard. Replicators armed with the knowledge of the Borg (to add to their own knowledge) would be formidable to any foe.

Could the Borg develop an understanding of hyperdrive? There's no reason to think so. Quantum Slipstream was a means of FTL faster than conventional transwarp drives yet the Borg don't use it- meaning they haven't been able to make it work for them. That said, if the Borg get an opportunity to set up transwarp conduits, they could do some real damage, if they attack in numbers.

I'm not going to make any declarations that the Goa'uld could defeat the full might of the Collective- I do want it understood that the SG-verse represents a far tougher set of opponents than the ST-verse does.

Umm...seriosuly... pretty much any ship in SG universe stands a chance against a borg cube? They don't. Cubes are measured in miles, like hives. Only ships armed with Asgard or Ori beams, or maybe drones, will have a chance of destoying a cube. Any other ship will be overwhelmed soon before it inflicts any serious damage on a cube. Mark 9's, unless able to be beamed in, are not going to get to the cube. They're easily destroyed by lightspeed weapons such as phasors, ect.

I also don't know why the borg wouldn't be able to understand hyperdrive. All they have to do is assimilate a ship with one into the collective. I wouldn't bet on them figuring it out if they had to study one that was recovered or something, but they don't have to.

[SG66]

there are several reasons concering the hyperdrive.

1: the borg may not understand it, they may be extrodinary intellegent, but even they can have limits.

2: they may understand it, but they may not be able to use it. its basically the same with the slipstream, the borg have assimilated it, but they don't use it. maybe they don't understand it, or their ships are simply unable to use it. it may just be the way their ships are built that may make them unable to use slipstream or hyperdrive.

[Myles]

there are several reasons concering the hyperdrive.

1: the borg may not understand it, they may be extrodinary intellegent, but even they can have limits.

2: they may understand it, but they may not be able to use it. its basically the same with the slipstream, the borg have assimilated it, but they don't use it. maybe they don't understand it, or their ships are simply unable to use it. it may just be the way their ships are built that may make them unable to use slipstream or hyperdrive.

Or maybe the reason they don't use slipstream is because transwarp is better?

[SG66]

slipstream is faster, and more efficient the transwarp, how can transwarp be better then slipstream.

[Buba uognarf]

slipstream is faster, and more efficient the transwarp, how can transwarp be better then slipstream.

Prove it.

Also the fact mckay and carter understand Hyperdrive should speak for itself. A hive mind of trillions would easily be able to understand and failing that...they could REPLICATE it .

[SG66]

prove it? watch voyager when its in use, don't remember the episode, but its there.

and contrary to the beleif that the trekkies hold, the borg can not replicate everything, they have their limits, just like everything else in the universe has limits.

and how about you, prove to me, that the borg can replicate everything, or that transwarp is better then slipstream and hyperdrive.

[Buba uognarf]

prove it? watch voyager when its in use, don't remember the episode, but its there.

and contrary to the beleif that the trekkies hold, the borg can not replicate everything, they have their limits, just like everything else in the universe has limits.

and how about you, prove to me, that the borg can replicate everything, or that transwarp is better then slipstream and hyperdrive.

Why wouldn't they be able to replicate a hyperdrive? If Earth can build one so can the Borg with their far superior resources and technology. If earth in the 21st century can build a hyperdrive then the Borg can replicate it with scans etc...Give me a reason why they wouldn't be able to replicate it? They can replicate a host of other technologies hyperdrive shouldn't be so hard.

I never said Transwarp was better than hyperdrive or slipstream, the burden of proof lies with you to prove your statement. If you can't, then drop it.

[Myles]

slipstream is faster, and more efficient the transwarp, how can transwarp be better then slipstream.

Transwarp is pretty fast, fast enough I don't assume a one episode way to get through space is better.

They also use wormholes as transwarp hubs. Which got voyager home in like 2 minutes. Seems pretty good to me.