Earth wraith attack fleet

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

yuk, massive posts, im not even gonna TRY to read it all

Here's the gist of what I wrote:

Small carrier ships, 304 sized, only with bigger fighter bays to launch a few times the fighters from.
Support vessels a third or half the size of the 304s, easily capable of standing toe to toe with a Hive or multiple Cruisers, doesn't have fighter bays, so literally an attack craft with the same power of a 304 only in a more compact tidy package.
Beefed up 304s, with extra power generators, shield emitters, think of them as a Heavy attack vessel on the Odyssey's level, maybe with a few more Asgard beam weapons, much faster due to the added power.



As an addition how about a bomber or missile launcher class?
It's maneuverable, designed to house packets of cluster missiles, has a basic interplanetary hyperdrive, drops out of hyperspace near an enemy fleet fires it's missiles then jumps away.

Newer missiles could have shields or armor that allows them to actually make it to their targets, either that or they're smaller and more maneuverable than the straight flying missiles we have now.
Earth's gotta be able to make a better delivery system for it's number one back-up weapon to the plasma beams.

[thekillman]

the only thing we need is more power on a 304. rip off the hangars and add generators, then totally and utterly own the wraith and kick them into the pit called hell.

we dont need massive or varied fleets

[ianjones1246]

the only thing we need is more power on a 304. rip off the hangars and add generators, then totally and utterly own the wraith and kick them into the pit called hell.

we dont need massive or varied fleets

Correct me if i m wrong, but isn't that exactly what the ancients thought -

Ancients: "I know, our aurora class warships are unbeatable when powered by ZPM's, yets send them deep into Wraith controlled territory in limited numbers, often on their own, and watch them kick the Wraith's ass!"

.............. *shortly after a aurora or 2 are ambushed, crews fed upon, and a zillion Wraith start spilling through the gate network in the Pegasus galaxy, accompanied by 100's of Wraith Hives due to the ZPM's being used to power clone facilities, and grow Wraith Hives*..................

Ancients "Oh crap, looks like our massively powerful warships aren't so massively powerful... oh double crap - we just handed the Wraith the means to defeat us (zpm's)!"

10,000 years later.....................................

Earth: "I know, our X304 class warships are unbeatable - even when *not* powered by ZPM's. Yets send them deep into Wraith controlled territory in limited numbers, often on their own, and watch them kick the Wraith's ass!"

.............. *shortly after a X304 or 2 is ambushed, crews fed upon, and a zillion Wraith start spilling through the gate network in the milky way galaxy, accompanied by 100's of Wraith Hives due to their backward engineering the X304's hyperdrives*.................................

Earth "Oh crap, looks like our massively powerful warships aren't so massively powerful..... oh double crap - we just handed the Wraith the means to reach our galaxy and defeat us (hyperdrives)!"

I know Earth/ The Tauri are suppossed to be the 5th race and all... and to be the next evolution of Ancients.... but perhaps we should decide to make our own path when it comes to strategies to fight the wraith?

[thekillman]

except that we're not supposed to be stupid. the wraith only were so powerfull through ZPM's. we dont have that many, so we have old crappy naquahdhah-powered ships and so the wraith dont get uber. oh and, we dont send them deep, we just "carpet bomb" them

[ianjones1246]

except that we're not supposed to be stupid. the wraith only were so powerfull through ZPM's. we dont have that many, so we have old crappy naquahdhah-powered ships and so the wraith dont get uber. oh and, we dont send them deep, we just "carpet bomb" them

I think your kinda missing a important point in you logic. The Wraith wiped out the Ancients!

The Ancients weren't stupid eithier - or no more stupid than Earth is and has been. They fought the Wraith for 100 years, being driven slowly but surely across the galaxy. Earth wouldn't last for a day - the first battle would be the last battle, and Earth would be wiped out - all the Wraith need is to capture a X304's hyperdrive, study it, and backward engineer. Its then game over.

Stargate fans assume Earth is a miraculous strategic planning centre, and the Ancients were just dumb. Lets recall what Earths managed to achieve in its time shall we?

1.) Its announced Earths very existence to every known galaxy Humanity has come into contact with.

2.) In addittion to point 1, its not just woken/ alerted countless hostile races to Earths very existence, but more often than not willingly given them our gate address - from which they can work out where to find us - only to then be screwed over.

3.) We awoke the Wraith - resulting in the genocide of countless civilisations in the Pegasus galaxy - despite the ancient hologram warning us of them (the ancients when they woke the wraith at least didn't have a prior warning!)

4.) We played around with the Asuran base code - resulting in the genocide of countless civilisations, and earth singlehandedly being responsible for the exstinction of the last of the Ancients - the universes greatest race. We also happened to tell them where we came from, and where our base of operations in Pegasus was.

5.) We alerted the Ori to the existence of the milky way galaxy - resulting in the genocide of countless civilisatons.

6.) We gave the replicators complete access to Earth's and the entire universes only effective weapon against the Replicators - based on a single "things" testimony, the "thing" giving the testimoony itself belonging to the enemy replicator race, that the Replicators had found a means to counter-act our only weapon to stop them. To put that into context, a testimony in court by a single witness without any other evidence to back up the claims wouldn't be enough to even be prosecuted for dropping litter (there wouldn't even be a court case lol).

More than this, we then actively sat down with the enemy combatant, and gave them full access to our only effective weapon - and consequently were suprised when the replicators double crossed us - and launched a full blown invasion of the milky way galaxy - all but being unstoppable - resulting in the genocide of countless more civilisations. Earth comes to within a hair's width of being wiped out.

7.) Not having learnt from what happens when you cooperate with the enemy from the replicator experience, and give them access - whether intentionally or negligently - to vitally important information. Earth then cooperates with the Wraith - and again is suprised when they are double crossed. The result this time is the loss of 1 of Earths only 3 warships - The Orion - and the severe damage of one of the others. Thats 2/3's of Earths entire fleet put of action/ destroyed - simply due to the idiocy of Earth in even allowing the situation to happen in the first place. Earth again comes to within a hair's width of being wiped out

8.) When the superhive launches darts against the Antartic weapons platform - does earth use the weapons platform to defend itself? Nope. Does Earth call in extra aircraft (even if only atmospheric one's) to reinforce the hopelessly outnumbered F302's fighting in Earths atmosphere? Nope. Does Earth just basically sit back and what its at the time *only* means of defence be destroyed? Yes.

9.) The Battle of Camelot - despite having sent one of its vessels to its death engaging a enemy satellite built by a relatively primitive society - without bothering to do proper recon of the satellites capabilities, or trying to evade when it fired - they instead decide to send 2 of its only other warships to fight against a race which has already through massively superior technology destroyed one of its ships - to fight against an unknown class of vessels, or even how many of these vessels there are. The result? Yet another earth ship is sliced apart and the other one badly damaged.

Earth is probably one of the most dumb races out there. We mock the ancients for the mistakes they made - but at least their mistakes actually generally if they had worked would have meant something and achieved some greater purpose - such as ending the war.

All of Earths mistakes are pure and simple idiocy, with no gain to be made at all. Almost all of Earths mistakes are also eithier tactical mistakes, or strategic universe-wide mistakes - which have probably literally cost the lives of billions of sentinent beings.

If we go up against the Wraith, if our track record is anything to go by - we d be butchered. The only thing in our favour is that they can't reach us, we can reach them. That means we get to pick the battles and the way the war goes. The moment the Wraith find a means to get to the Milky Way Galaxy, we are doomed.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I think I see some good points on both sides here, if we don't use fighters then the Wraith won't, although we could probably build fighters that can kill Hives and Cruisers now, especially if they're armed with some Daedalus level Mark 8 warheads, you get a single fighter that's armed with 4 of those missiles, if it actually makes it to it's target and all of it's missiles make contact a Hive would probably be killed, a single mark 8 nuke may kill a Cruiser, then we don't have to risk more expensive, bigger ships.
Bombers could carry larger numbers of nukes, shield the bombers, give them some rail guns, IMO they'd be a pretty good bet and perfect against a large convoy of Wraith vessels as you can launch as few or as many as is needed per battle, without risking the 304s, 305s or whatever we use as a dedicated warship.
IMO for the Ancients to have lost they can't have had that many ships at all throughout the entirety of the war with the Wraith, maybe a couple dozen and even a ZPMless Aurora could probably own a Siege Part 3 sized fleet if it was stocked up with Drones, it's basically a mobile Drone platform, only not so capable as those in the quantities it can fire at once.
One on one our ships are capable of dealing with Hives, anything more than that and it's not so much of a guaranteed thing anymore, 3's definitely too much, so we need to both beef up our ships and prepare a decent sized fleet to even level peg ourselves with the Ancients military capabilities or upgrade our missiles, shrinking them down, adding a shield if that's possible and improving the propulsion systems with a death glider style inertialess drive so they can evade some fire and remove the need to carry fuel for the rocket, then we can quickly spam Hives/Cruisers as our ships exit hyperspace, as well as beefing up our ships with added power generators and shield emitters.

Simply making better ships is great if we can actually stand against a few Hives a piece, but there's nothing IMO stopping the Wraith from upgrading either, so we would need to come straight out, in our first war declaring attack with more than just better warships, great numbers of ships, a good variety for different campaigns IMO is what is needed.
Not forgetting a great infrastructure in the Milky Way, ways to track the Wraith's fleet movements in PG and something to monitor each planet in Pegasus too, perhaps a satellite network could do that, with a surplus of MALPs that can be sent to every world with a Stargates, the Asgard could make personal cloaks so cloaking a bunch of MALPs should be pretty easy.

If we've got a decent sized fleet just for PG then we can attack the Wraith on more than just one front, with multiple ships at a time, then we'd have the edge and they'd be on the defensive instead of us the moment we attack.

[morrismike]

I think I see some good points on both sides here, if we don't use fighters then the Wraith won't, although we could probably build fighters that can kill Hives and Cruisers now, especially if they're armed with some Daedalus level Mark 8 warheads, you get a single fighter that's armed with 4 of those missiles, if it actually makes it to it's target and all of it's missiles make contact a Hive would probably be killed, a single mark 8 nuke may kill a Cruiser, then we don't have to risk more expensive, bigger ships.
Bombers could carry larger numbers of nukes, shield the bombers, give them some rail guns, IMO they'd be a pretty good bet and perfect against a large convoy of Wraith vessels as you can launch as few or as many as is needed per battle, without risking the 304s, 305s or whatever we use as a dedicated warship.
IMO for the Ancients to have lost they can't have had that many ships at all throughout the entirety of the war with the Wraith, maybe a couple dozen and even a ZPMless Aurora could probably own a Siege Part 3 sized fleet if it was stocked up with Drones, it's basically a mobile Drone platform, only not so capable as those in the quantities it can fire at once.
One on one our ships are capable of dealing with Hives, anything more than that and it's not so much of a guaranteed thing anymore, 3's definitely too much, so we need to both beef up our ships and prepare a decent sized fleet to even level peg ourselves with the Ancients military capabilities or upgrade our missiles, shrinking them down, adding a shield if that's possible and improving the propulsion systems with a death glider style inertialess drive so they can evade some fire and remove the need to carry fuel for the rocket, then we can quickly spam Hives/Cruisers as our ships exit hyperspace, as well as beefing up our ships with added power generators and shield emitters.

Simply making better ships is great if we can actually stand against a few Hives a piece, but there's nothing IMO stopping the Wraith from upgrading either, so we would need to come straight out, in our first war declaring attack with more than just better warships, great numbers of ships, a good variety for different campaigns IMO is what is needed.
Not forgetting a great infrastructure in the Milky Way, ways to track the Wraith's fleet movements in PG and something to monitor each planet in Pegasus too, perhaps a satellite network could do that, with a surplus of MALPs that can be sent to every world with a Stargates, the Asgard could make personal cloaks so cloaking a bunch of MALPs should be pretty easy.

If we've got a decent sized fleet just for PG then we can attack the Wraith on more than just one front, with multiple ships at a time, then we'd have the edge and they'd be on the defensive instead of us the moment we attack.

Fighters without shields will die if a nuke goes off anywhere nearby.

[locutes]

not if we use the right materials in both the ships and the fighter pilots' uniforms

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Fighters without shields will die if a nuke goes off anywhere nearby.

I thought I'd mentioned shielding fighters in a previous post on this thread, shields should be possible, if the Goauld can make personal shields and Carter can shield a room in the SGC (The Road Not Taken) then a generator built for a fighter should be fairly easy for Earth to make now.
If I haven't mentioned it here OK shields would come in useful even if they were only able to resist Dart fire, that way one of our fighters could take on a load of Darts a piece.

If something bigger is needed then use the Bomber idea I put in the post you quoted, give it the ability to carry variable sized quantities of naq-nukes or potassium-iron-naqueda charges, that may be easier to put a stronger shield generator on board and it could have a few cannons to clear Darts on the way to getting to it's target.

not if we use the right materials in both the ships and the fighter pilots' uniforms

This is a very good point, making a fighter out of Trinium or a combo of advanced materials so that it can resist the radiation/energy wave better.
302s must be designed to resist things like solar radiation already.
In EATG the 302s were gonna go and hit the Hive with nukes so they must have some ability to resist a nuke's energy wave in space.

[Crazy Tom]

Talk about resurrecting the dead, this thread is as old as my account.

[thekillman]

dammit my replies keep dissapearing.


radiation shielding in reactors are several meters of water and several dozen meters of concrete

[morrismike]

dammit my replies keep dissapearing.


radiation shielding in reactors are several meters of water and several dozen meters of concrete

It's not quite that thick (not on Navy Ships or US reactors anyway). A few feet of poly (in place of water) and a few feet of concrete. To shield a bomb with no atmosphere providing free shielding would require an energy shield. Only in sci fantasy can you put on a suit for radiation protection (the suits are for not getting contaminated BTW).

[morrismike]

This is a very good point, making a fighter out of Trinium or a combo of advanced materials so that it can resist the radiation/energy wave better.
302s must be designed to resist things like solar radiation already.
In EATG the 302s were gonna go and hit the Hive with nukes so they must have some ability to resist a nuke's energy wave in space.

OR the writers and their technical advisors don't have a clue.

[thekillman]

actually gamma radiation goes throug many meters of concrete, yet other forms of radiation only require a mm of stainless steel

[ianjones1246]

Regarding Earth's F302's (even though its not of concern when fighting the Wraith) i think we actually got to see their anti-shield warheads (the one's referred to earlier in stargate which can tune to enemy shield frequencies and fly straight through them) at work

Anyone interested go and watch the episode "Be all my sins remember'd" - in the battle we see F302's swooping in on enemy aurora's in conjunction with Wraith Darts - we also see the impacts upon the aurora shields from smaller fire, and moments later (while the shield impacts are still happening... indictating the shields are still up!) the F302 missiles fly straight through the shields - blowing the ship apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye_QlqERMGo - jump to 0.46 to see what i mean

If this is the case... it really does highlight a need for heavier payloads of F302's - since F302's would potentially become ship killers - not only against unshielded Wraith Hives - but against all forms of enemies (not sure how the missiles would stand up to Ori Mothership shields though lol)