So many hive ships are blowing up. Do the wraith need a super hive ship? Thoughts?

[Schrodinger82]

No because it didn't have a mark designation...the mark designation means naquadah enhanced...

So when we refer to Mark III warheads in real life, I suppose that those are Naquadah enhanced as well?

they weren't exposed they were internal systems...

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to have an internal system that's also protected. Especially if that internal system is accessible fromt he outside.

sorry but thats rubbish (not being rude), the wraith are the most advanced bio engineers in the stargate universe (that we've seen), the wraith bio engineer their ships are you telling me the organic materials and structure of the hive ship appear naturally???

The Wraith can't even repair their own ships without McKay's help, have had their OS compared to DOS, and their only known attempt atcreating a better food source has resulted in failure.

and if they're such poor engineers then how did they reverse engineer ancient intagalactic hyperdrives in a matter of hours...

TREBAL: The hyperdrive construct modifications are commencing, sir.
CAPTAIN: Make certain the equations are entered in the correct sequence. We don’t want to overload the control conduit.

Apparently it was simply a matter of inputting the right equations in the correct sequence, akin to updating the firmware.

thats not what i was saying at all, what i said was a crippled hive ship was able to destroy an ancient warship and cripple the deadalus...

An "ancient warship" that had no weapons, no shields, no power, and which had already taken a massive beating. A Daedalus which had already sustained major damage without shields, and which was probably less than 0.1% it's total volume.

[Buba uognarf]

So when we refer to Mark III warheads in real life, I suppose that those are Naquadah enhanced as well?

but this isn't the real world which is what you have to remember, in stargate the mark designation means it's naquadah enhanced...

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to have an internal system that's also protected. Especially if that internal system is accessible fromt he outside.

but in this case the internal sytems weren't protected on not sufficently to defend it form rail gun fire...

The Wraith can't even repair their own ships without McKay's help, have had their OS compared to DOS, and their only known attempt atcreating a better food source has resulted in failure.

yes they can...the engineers were upgrading the hyperdrive and you're trusting the words of a wraith a wraith who was already lying to atlantis...

it was only compared to DOS when the ship had been seriously damaged so you can't realy make that comparrison...

it was an attempt to make humans more compatable and the experiments were terminated due to side affects after which the experiment was terminated...

their ships alone show they are incredably advanced bio engineers...

TREBAL: The hyperdrive construct modifications are commencing, sir.
CAPTAIN: Make certain the equations are entered in the correct sequence. We don’t want to overload the control conduit.

Apparently it was simply a matter of inputting the right equations in the correct sequence, akin to updating the firmware.

i doubt it was that simple...

An "ancient warship" that had no weapons, no shields, no power, and which had already taken a massive beating. A Daedalus which had already sustained major damage without shields, and which was probably less than 0.1% it's total volume.

i wasn't saying it was a big deal that the hive destroyed the ancient ship that it was able to spend time doing so and then cripple the deadalus when it to was already badely damaged...

the deadalus's shields were still at 100% so the previous damage is irrelevant

[Tain]

As stated previously, the Wraith's problem is not their ships or technology, but the very writing of the show itself. They have been castrated, demoted from the raging, dangerous Mongol horde they were, and have become the neighborhood violent drunk, only dangerous when you get too close and hes got a smashed up liquor bottle.

Its sad, the Wraith had so much potential, and the its just been allowed slip away.

[eye of sauron]

So when we refer to Mark III warheads in real life, I suppose that those are Naquadah enhanced as well?



Those two points aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to have an internal system that's also protected. Especially if that internal system is accessible fromt he outside.



The Wraith can't even repair their own ships without McKay's help, have had their OS compared to DOS, and their only known attempt atcreating a better food source has resulted in failure.



TREBAL: The hyperdrive construct modifications are commencing, sir.
CAPTAIN: Make certain the equations are entered in the correct sequence. We don’t want to overload the control conduit.

Apparently it was simply a matter of inputting the right equations in the correct sequence, akin to updating the firmware.



An "ancient warship" that had no weapons, no shields, no power, and which had already taken a massive beating. A Daedalus which had already sustained major damage without shields, and which was probably less than 0.1% it's total volume.

NO wraith hyper drive are different form ancient ones. the problem wiht them is that they seems to lack cooling so they will overheat is they turn it on for too long.whatever the wraith did probely involved sloving that problem e.g adding the cooling vent that sheppard later destroyed.

the hanger its self is not a big design flaw for the haive, the problem is the darts they are fully fueled and armed if the hanger is hit by weapons fire before they are launched they it will cause a chain reaction that explodes the fuel and ordances stored on the darts

P.S the haive ship that wents up against the Daedalus was poorly maned due to the low status of the queen it probely didnt have the right maintiance personal on board how do you expect warrior wraith to fix space ships

if silly to assume that the wraith cant repair their own haives if so how have they manage to keep them running for the past thousands of years

[Schrodinger82]

NO wraith hyper drive are different form ancient ones. the problem wiht them is that they seems to lack cooling so they will overheat is they turn it on for too long.whatever the wraith did probely involved sloving that problem e.g adding the cooling vent that sheppard later destroyed.

So the Wraith needed to hack into the Atlantis database for the sake of building a cooling vent? Yeah... I'm not buying that.

the hanger its self is not a big design flaw for the haive, the problem is the darts they are fully fueled and armed if the hanger is hit by weapons fire before they are launched they it will cause a chain reaction that explodes the fuel and ordances stored on the darts

1) We've seen the inside of Dart bays in the past. The vast majority of it is empty space.

2) As for causing a chain reaction, please cite other examples of this. For instance, how big are the explosions when the railguns hit the Darts in "The Siege"?

P.S the haive ship that wents up against the Daedalus was poorly maned due to the low status of the queen it probely didnt have the right maintiance personal on board how do you expect warrior wraith to fix space ships

By having technicians on board.

if silly to assume that the wraith cant repair their own haives if so how have they manage to keep them running for the past thousands of years

Probably by not getting attacked.

[eye of sauron]

So the Wraith needed to hack into the Atlantis database for the sake of building a cooling vent? Yeah... I'm not buying that.



1) We've seen the inside of Dart bays in the past. The vast majority of it is empty space.

2) As for causing a chain reaction, please cite other examples of this. For instance, how big are the explosions when the railguns hit the Darts in "The Siege"?



By having technicians on board.



Probably by not getting attacked.

Whatever the wraith did the change was not big given it was complete in several hours adding some cooling system is not too hard to belive given the amount of time is at best a Modification of the existing system. a improved hyper drive means nothing to the wraith if they dont know where earth is the main purpose of hacking altantis is to get the location of earth.

Beacuse the hanger is mostly empty is weaker then the rest of the ship it also stores fuel and ordnace for darts.they are the most flamble/explosive thing in that region of the ship the burdern of proof is on your to explain why there was a large explosion when the fuel/anmo storge didnt go off

the haive we are talking about is under crewed so they probley didnt have technicians. a haive ship has mechanical parts in it you cant expect to use it for thousands of years and not have a breakdown. if they can build haive ship chances are they can repair them. th problem now is that the wraith nation is in civial war smaller faction probely dont have the equipment and logestic support to maintain their ships

[Ouroboros]

The Wraith hyperdrive stop thing doesn't actually seem to have anything to do with the hyperdrive itself. In no mans land Zelenka explains that they stop because prolonged exposure to "hyperspace radiation" is harmful to some organic part of their ships. They drop out of hyperspace, rest/regenerate, and then jump back in again.

The chages made could have been made by the hive itself. It's organic so it's possible the Wraith engineers need only tell it to "grow" or mutate new components in its hyperdrive to get the desired effect. I'll bet there's a lot of sticky goo involved to.

The fact that a Wraith ship can be severely damaged by shots hitting inside it's hanger is not surprising either. There's real world precident for something very similar happening in wet navy ships that get a little careless about placing their powder and shells and not closing certain important doors.

What probably happened is the Wraith leave whatever fuel cells or battery packs or whatever that the darts and scoutships use lying around the hangers because it's easier to rearm/refuel them that way. Basically it's down to careless arrogance. They haven't fought a war in 10,000 years so it's not like they're accustomed to having people fire into their hiveship hangers from the outside at just the right time and blow up all that ammo and fuel they left lying around for the sake of expediency rather than safety.

It's really a 1 in a million shot that such a thing would happen anyway.

As for the Orion it was hardly without weapons, it did destroy the other hiveship afterall.

They came in, started taking damage from the hiveships, they had to trade their shields to fire a drone salvo, they did and killed a hiveship with it.

At this point the fight is between one "severely damaged" hiveship the Daedalus, and the Orion. The hiveship concentrates on the Orion and they loose their ability to fire a second drone salvo almost instantly. "Zeleknka says "there's too much damage and they need to abaondon ship".

The thing to note is even with their shields up they were getting rocked quite a bit, certainly not laughing it off. Once they dropped them they basically commited suicide, trading the Orion for one of the hiveships. If the Orion had been at full capacity it probably would have got them both but that's all down to the drones. Most of the ancient superiority against the Wraith seems to come from the fact they had far superior weaponry. Their ships, even with shields, don't seem that much more resiliant than a hive if at all. They win because they can kill Wraith ships much faster than the Wraith ships can kill them back. Not taking anything away from the ancients, that's just as good a way to win as any. Their problem likely was that one of their ships could kill say, 4 hives before the hives could kill it, but the Wraith always seemed to have five.

I get the feeling that the ancient war involved a lot of hit and run tactics by the ancients which explains why they lost the whole galaxy.

The ancients could, and likely did numerous times, come out ahead in casualties in battles so long as they knew when to cut out and run for it. Namely before the Wraith were able to swamp them and drain their shields/cripple their ships. This is all fine and dandy but the degree to which they were outnumbered meant they couldn't win drawn out "hold the line" style defensive slugfests with entire armadas of incoming hives, cruisers,darts and scouts without running out of drones or simply having their defences eventually overwhelmed by too many hostile ships shooting them at once. Since it was then a choice between fleeing to hyperspace to fight another day or sticking around defending that planet from culling until your ship got so badly damaged you couldn't run and your crew got turned into lunchables, they wound run, and run and run, until eventually all they had left was Atlantis.

That's the way I see it going down anyway.

[eye of sauron]

The Wraith hyperdrive stop thing doesn't actually seem to have anything to do with the hyperdrive itself. In no mans land Zelenka explains that they stop because prolonged exposure to "hyperspace radiation" is harmful to some organic part of their ships. They drop out of hyperspace, rest/regenerate, and then jump back in again.

The chages made could have been made by the hive itself. It's organic so it's possible the Wraith engineers need only tell it to "grow" or mutate new components in its hyperdrive to get the desired effect. I'll bet there's a lot of sticky goo involved to.

The fact that a Wraith ship can be severely damaged by shots hitting inside it's hanger is not surprising either. There's real world precident for something very similar happening in wet navy ships that get a little careless about placing their powder and shells and not closing certain important doors.

What probably happened is the Wraith leave whatever fuel cells or battery packs or whatever that the darts and scoutships use lying around the hangers because it's easier to rearm/refuel them that way. Basically it's down to careless arrogance. They haven't fought a war in 10,000 years so it's not like they're accustomed to having people fire into their hiveship hangers from the outside at just the right time and blow up all that ammo and fuel they left lying around for the sake of expediency rather than safety.

It's really a 1 in a million shot that such a thing would happen anyway.

As for the Orion it was hardly without weapons, it did destroy the other hiveship afterall.

They came in, started taking damage from the hiveships, they had to trade their shields to fire a drone salvo, they did and killed a hiveship with it.

At this point the fight is between one "severely damaged" hiveship the Daedalus, and the Orion. The hiveship concentrates on the Orion and they loose their ability to fire a second drone salvo almost instantly. "Zeleknka says "there's too much damage and they need to abaondon ship".

The thing to note is even with their shields up they were getting rocked quite a bit, certainly not laughing it off. Once they dropped them they basically commited suicide, trading the Orion for one of the hiveships. If the Orion had been at full capacity it probably would have got them both but that's all down to the drones. Most of the ancient superiority against the Wraith seems to come from the fact they had far superior weaponry. Their ships, even with shields, don't seem that much more resiliant than a hive if at all. They win because they can kill Wraith ships much faster than the Wraith ships can kill them back. Not taking anything away from the ancients, that's just as good a way to win as any. Their problem likely was that one of their ships could kill say, 4 hives before the hives could kill it, but the Wraith always seemed to have five.

I get the feeling that the ancient war involved a lot of hit and run tactics by the ancients which explains why they lost the whole galaxy.

The ancients could, and likely did numerous times, come out ahead in casualties in battles so long as they knew when to cut out and run for it. Namely before the Wraith were able to swamp them and drain their shields/cripple their ships. This is all fine and dandy but the degree to which they were outnumbered meant they couldn't win drawn out "hold the line" style defensive slugfests with entire armadas of incoming hives, cruisers,darts and scouts without running out of drones or simply having their defences eventually overwhelmed by too many hostile ships shooting them at once. Since it was then a choice between fleeing to hyperspace to fight another day or sticking around defending that planet from culling until your ship got so badly damaged you couldn't run and your crew got turned into lunchables, they wound run, and run and run, until eventually all they had left was Atlantis.

That's the way I see it going down anyway.

in the USN fuel line and the magzine is flooded wiht CO2 at the first sight of trouble in wartime you would never see bombs laying around on the flight. the wraith probely had improper flight deck handling procedure.

P.S hit and run tatics wont stop a massive wraith armada form attacking. you just cant attack some ship , run away and leave the city in question to fend for itself.

[mburrows]

-cough-



are you saying that the wraith need more tech? roflcakes


dude, do you see how long we can withstand continuos(sp?) fire from a hive?....bout 5 minutes, how long can the wraith withstand us?...bout a week most likely


the darts are, imo, way more formidable fighters then 302s, if we put our pilots into the darts...other darts, piloted by wraith wouldnt stand a chance

[Dark Falcon]

you misunderstand the hive was right to target the orion wat i was getting at is that a crippled hive ship can spend time destroying an ancient warship and then also cripple the deadalus

My mistake. You were right. A crippled hive ship can still
take a lot of punishment and be able to continue fighting.

[Dark Falcon]

-cough-



are you saying that the wraith need more tech? roflcakes


dude, do you see how long we can withstand continuos(sp?) fire from a hive?....bout 5 minutes, how long can the wraith withstand us?...bout a week most likely


the darts are, imo, way more formidable fighters then 302s, if we put our pilots into the darts...other darts, piloted by wraith wouldnt stand a chance

Well, lol, I brought this thread up because we are apparently killing
the wraith off one by one. I'm thinking that the wraith may need
upgrades in some areas, tech wise. If not, then we'll just blow them
up one by one until they are all gone, no matter how hard the
task is.

[Ouroboros]

in the USN fuel line and the magzine is flooded wiht CO2 at the first sight of trouble in wartime you would never see bombs laying around on the flight. the wraith probely had improper flight deck handling procedure.

Yeah, I know, that's what I was getting it. The Wraith are arrogant. They've had 10,000 years of unchallenged dominion over all they could lay eyes on. It's not surprising to me that things like proper safe stowage of ordnance and fuel would have slipped in all that time in favour of just doing it the most easy/convenient way for them. Namely having everything sitting out in and around where the darts land and take off so it's quicker and easier to reload and refuel them.

P.S hit and run tatics wont stop a massive wraith armada form attacking. you just cant attack some ship , run away and leave the city in question to fend for itself.

Once again, wasn't that exactly the point I was making? You're kind of confusing me here dude. We seem to agree on the conclusions here but you seem to be arguing with me? Am I mistaken?

The ancient ships could win battles in the sense that they could run in, blow up a bunch of hives and than run away before the superior numbers of Wraith ships could damage them enough to cripple or destroy them. They couldn't however hold ground against a commited Wraith onslaught and that's why they lost planet after planet after planet to them, until eventually all they had left was Atlantis.

[Buba uognarf]

The way i see the war is that the ancients could win battle after battle but they couldn't destroy the wraith ships faster than they were being built...
so they had to constantly fall back...

due to the wraith infastruture it would only take a couple of wraith victories to tip the balance in the wraiths favour so after 100 years of being slowly ground down by the wraith the ancient were forced to make their last stands, but by this time the wraith outnumbered them so greatly that in these last battles the ancients were simply overwhelmed and destroyed leaving only atlantis...

dude, do you see how long we can withstand continuos(sp?) fire from a hive?....bout 5 minutes, how long can the wraith withstand us?...bout a week most likely

more like 3 minutes...lol

we keep getting lucky in reality the deadalus should be long dead by now

[Schrodinger82]

The Wraith hyperdrive stop thing doesn't actually seem to have anything to do with the hyperdrive itself. In no mans land Zelenka explains that they stop because prolonged exposure to "hyperspace radiation" is harmful to some organic part of their ships. They drop out of hyperspace, rest/regenerate, and then jump back in again.

My impression was that there were two seperate sets of improvements. One to improve the drives themselves, and one to improve the shielding. Like if you make a golf cart that can now go 200 mph, you might also start armoring it up in case it hits anything at that speed.

[lindy]

What you have to remember is the wraith were hibernating for thousands of years, because the people from atlantis fled their city to earth and the wraith thought it exsisted no longer leaving only less advanced races to feed on; when they awoke they found a far more advanced race at their doorstep; so they were taken by surprise, hence their determination to find out how to advance their ships into a superdrive to find earth; so really they haven't had that much time to up date their technology and are trying to find out how to advance their ships, at the same time as they are fighting the more superior race that suddenly appeared from earth!