So many hive ships are blowing up. Do the wraith need a super hive ship? Thoughts?

[Giantevilhead]

Maybe the writers just didn't think it through when they created the Wraith. There has already been a few inconsistencies with the Wraith.

[WraithReaper1234]

Maybe they don't need a "Super ship" per say. Maybe they just need to upgrade their exsiting ships with sheilds and better hyperdrives.

[Bragi]

No.

They need new tactics and to drop the "just swarm them, we'll eventually win" mentality.

Sure, it worked for the Russians in World War II. . . but it didn't in World War I.

[Ouroboros]

They just need to start using what they've got better. Build more darts, a hive can hold tens of thousands going by it's size so fill it with that many and just zerg rush enemy ships into submission.

One thing that would really help them would be a better type of attack craft to launch from their hiveships though. Darts are harvesters, build a gunship/fighter for actual warfare.

Give it a hyperdrive so it's got some decent range and enough firepower via missiles/torps to be a threat to another hiveship or the Daedalus and the threat level of a hive goes way up.

The hive will then be able to stay out of the combat range of any hostile ship and just spam flights of attack craft at it until it's destroyed.

Realistically though the only reason the Hiveships lose is because the writing favours the SGA guys regardless of credability.

A hiveship is superior to a 304 in every measurable way except hyperdrive speed.

[Dark Falcon]

i sugested this a bout 3mounths ago i still belive its a good idea

Oh, so I'm not the one that thought of this idea.
Glad to have you on this thread, nemisis!

[Buba uognarf]

And to Tobi, I think that the DSC - 304, can handle there own agaisnt a Wraith ship, maybe not two but definately agaisnt one hive. Otherwise the Daedalus wouldnt be with us anymore.

no it can't....lol....even caldwell said in 'sateda'...
"the deadaless hasn't fared too well in it's last few engagements with wraith hiveships..."

Realistically though the only reason the Hiveships lose is because the writing favours the SGA guys regardless of credability.

A hiveship is superior to a 304 in every measurable way except hyperdrive speed.

agreed 304's are fine ships for fighting ha'taks but wraith hives have substantially more fire power even if they don't have shields they have about 100m of armor...

on the subject of a superhive i actually wrote down specs of a wraith superhive in the gateworld virtual fleet

[Schrodinger82]

agreed 304's are fine ships for fighting ha'taks but wraith hives have substantially more fire power even if they don't have shields they have about 100m of armor...

In NML, we see Michael standing in a Wraith evidence room, with a window to the the outside. Given what we see of the "window sill", it's doubtful that the hive ship armor is more than a few meters thick. This is consistent with the fact that SGA can damage areas of these ships that should be protected with missiles and railguns. That's not even factoring in how strong the window itself must be.

Then there's the C4 incident from the pilot.

[Buba uognarf]

In NML, we see Michael standing in a Wraith evidence room, with a window to the the outside. Given what we see of the "window sill", it's doubtful that the hive ship armor is more than a few meters thick. This is consistent with the fact that SGA can damage areas of these ships that should be protected with missiles and railguns. That's not even factoring in how strong the window itself must be.

Then there's the C4 incident from the pilot.

if the armor is so thin than how can it survive a nuke impact??? the blue/purple stuff on the hiveship is the armor think about it, the blue stuff is everywhere covering the entire ship (like armor) unless you're suggesting the armour is on the inside which doesn't realy work...

the areas that were exposed areas where the blue stuff wasn't present we've never seen anything less than a hive blast damage the actually hiveship...

as for michaels window view...lol we have no idea where his room is...

it's also entirely possible that the armor thickness changes accross the ship...

100m may have been abit much...but in some areas it certainly looks thick

[Schrodinger82]

if the armor is so thin than how can it survive a nuke impact???

Nukes don't work well in space. We also don't know the specific distance that said nukes were said to detonate, nor do we know their actual yeilds.

And the flipside to that question is, "If hive armor was so thick, then how can it be severely damaged with missiles, railguns, and C4?" Even if you argue the use of volatile systems, it still doesn't answer the question of why those volatile systems aren't being protected.

the blue/purple stuff on the hiveship is the armor think about it, the blue stuff is everywhere covering the entire ship (like armor) unless you're suggesting the armour is on the inside which doesn't realy work...

What I'm suggesting is that the presense of the windows suggests that the distance between the inside of the hive ship and the outside of the hive ship isn't very far.

the areas that were exposed areas where the blue stuff wasn't present we've never seen anything less than a hive blast damage the actually hiveship...

So I guess you're admitting that 302 missiles, C4, and railguns aren't much less powerful than a hive blast.

it's also entirely possible that the armor thickness changes accross the ship...

Which means that there are some parts of the ships that are unnecessarily unprotected. There is absolutely no reason why an evidence room would need a window.

[Buba uognarf]

Nukes don't work well in space. We also don't know the specific distance that said nukes were said to detonate, nor do we know their actual yeilds.

And the flipside to that question is, "If hive armor was so thick, then how can it be severely damaged with missiles, railguns, and C4?" Even if you argue the use of volatile systems, it still doesn't answer the question of why those volatile systems aren't being protected.

i don't know how a nuke would work in space...lol but as for the yield it was a naquadah enhanced nuke so it wasn't weak probably many megatons...

missiles hit an area which was exposed and not covered by armor...

rail guns hit the dart bays which are also not armored...and only did any real damage due to secondary explosions...

as for the C4 it was inside the ship so internal explosions are the only way to explain it...

What I'm suggesting is that the presense of the windows suggests that the distance between the inside of the hive ship and the outside of the hive ship isn't very far.

you have a good point...but we have no idea of knowing where the window was for all we know outside the window was 50m of armor beyond our view seeing as we've seen that the blue stuff is pretty darn thick in other places...

So I guess you're admitting that 302 missiles, C4, and railguns aren't much less powerful than a hive blast.

they've never caused damage on what i'm saying is the armor only in places it isn't present surporting my arguement...

Which means that there are some parts of the ships that are unnecessarily unprotected. There is absolutely no reason why an evidence room would need a window.

this was explained....the hiveships are so huge that in building them there are a few external weaknesses where your said weapons have only been know to cause damage...


the hives are obiviously armored otherwise they would have no defense what so ever, and if as you suggested the armor is only a few metres thick then it wouldn't be able to defend the ship from nukes and presumably ancient drones...

which would be the advantage and reason for armor over shields seeing as drones can't simply bi pass armor like shields...

[kaeyla]

I agree with Ouroboros- about the writing favouring SGA guys over Hiveships!!!I thinking against huge ships - the Armada invasion force in the 16th century!

[Schrodinger82]

i don't know how a nuke would work in space...lol but as for the yield it was a naquadah enhanced nuke so it wasn't weak probably many megatons...

We actually don't know if it was naquadah enhanced. It's been establsihed that Caldwell doesn't answer to the IOA, which SGA depends on for funding. The IOA has been weary of the US's military advantage in the past, and it's doubtful that they would approve of this one. If they did want to equipt the Daedalus with powerful tactical nukes to use at their discretion, then chances are that they would appoint someone who did answer to the IOA, and would therefore make sure that these weapons would never be used against their own self interest.

In "Pegasus Project," they only have a grand total of six nukes on board in the 26 megaton range, which Rodney complains as possibly being too high, and which the characters are worried could destroy both stargates together. Considering the importance of the mission, the incredible difficulty in calculations, and the necessity for redundancy for the doubtful trials that it would require, you would expect them to have a lot more nukes of that yeild on board if it were really that easy for them to produce.

It's also incredibly doubtful that they would stock solely in nukes capable of destroying stargates at both ends from millions of lightyears away. That's a lot more powerful than the nuke in "Chain Reaction," which was considered a disaster due to it's uncontrollable destructive power, and would hardly qualify as a "tactical" weapon.

missiles hit an area which was exposed and not covered by armor...

rail guns hit the dart bays which are also not armored...and only did any real damage due to secondary explosions...

as for the C4 it was inside the ship so internal explosions are the only way to explain it...

So the question there is, why in the world are these easily accessible areas not covered with armor? Especially if they were capable of violatile explosions?

you have a good point...but we have no idea of knowing where the window was for all we know outside the window was 50m of armor beyond our view seeing as we've seen that the blue stuff is pretty darn thick in other places...

In that case, it would have looked like a tunnel, and not a window. It would have been impossible for us to see the outside unless we were looking 90 degrees perpindicular to it -- which we were.

the hives are obiviously armored otherwise they would have no defense what so ever, and if as you suggested the armor is only a few metres thick then it wouldn't be able to defend the ship from nukes and presumably ancient drones...

And how well did they fare against Ancient drones, again? I'm talking about real drones. Not the pissy kind that are fired from malfunctioning PJ's and detonate on impact.

[pyr0]

Maybe the Wraith do have some yet-to-be-revealed ship classes or even space installations, the Superhive included. Or perhaps a central artificial mobile Hiveworld housing untold billions of Wraith, something kinda like the Borg's Unimatrix or the Magog Worldship. Cos' right now, it'd just seem plain weird if the entire Wraith armada consists solely of 50 or so remaining Hiveships and their cruiser escorts. Even being generous, that'd place the entire Wraith population at a couple of million or so, which is probably the average Jaffa population on a single planet in the Milky Way.

i thought about this problem for some time and then i think i figured it out - maybe those 50-60 hive ships is EVERYTHING that's left from 100 year war?? maybe if ancients took fight for some more years, then they could destroy all wraith hive ships and they occupants, but on the other hand - maybe wraith have similiary destroyed all ancient warships... we know that atlantis shield could withstand ANYTHING wraith throwed at it, but because they saw no way of winning, they just left, they just didn't know that only 50-60 hive ships remained...

in any case - until in some episode it's not clarified, we can just guess..

[Buba uognarf]

We actually don't know if it was naquadah enhanced. It's been establsihed that Caldwell doesn't answer to the IOA, which SGA depends on for funding. The IOA has been weary of the US's military advantage in the past, and it's doubtful that they would approve of this one. If they did want to equipt the Daedalus with powerful tactical nukes to use at their discretion, then chances are that they would appoint someone who did answer to the IOA, and would therefore make sure that these weapons would never be used against their own self interest.

In "Pegasus Project," they only have a grand total of six nukes on board in the 26 megaton range, which Rodney complains as possibly being too high, and which the characters are worried could destroy both stargates together. Considering the importance of the mission, the incredible difficulty in calculations, and the necessity for redundancy for the doubtful trials that it would require, you would expect them to have a lot more nukes of that yeild on board if it were really that easy for them to produce.

It's also incredibly doubtful that they would stock solely in nukes capable of destroying stargates at both ends from millions of lightyears away. That's a lot more powerful than the nuke in "Chain Reaction," which was considered a disaster due to it's uncontrollable destructive power, and would hardly qualify as a "tactical" weapon.

mark 3 means its naquadah enhanced...i can see your points though

So the question there is, why in the world are these easily accessible areas not covered with armor? Especially if they were capable of violatile explosions?

design flaws caused by the sheer size of the ship, no armor on the dart bays because other they wouldn't be able to escape...

In that case, it would have looked like a tunnel, and not a window. It would have been impossible for us to see the outside unless we were looking 90 degrees perpindicular to it -- which we were.

oh right true...but like i said we have plenty of pictures showing very thick armor and we don't know where his room was...also they may have hollowed out areas within the armor structure like rooms for insulation(for lact of a better word)...

And how well did they fare against Ancient drones, again? I'm talking about real drones. Not the pissy kind that are fired from malfunctioning PJ's and detonate on impact.

didn't say it would fare well i just said it was better than shielding and it still did better than the 2 it took to take out a ha'tak

[Schrodinger82]

mark 3 means its naquadah enhanced...i can see your points though

Non-canon assumption. The military was using the "mark" designation long before the implementation of naquadah.

design flaws caused by the sheer size of the ship, no armor on the dart bays because other they wouldn't be able to escape...

That makes no sense. That's like saying that you can't armor a tank, because otherwise people wouldn't be able to get out.

oh right true...but like i said we have plenty of pictures showing very thick armor and we don't know where his room was...also they may have hollowed out areas within the armor structure like rooms for insulation(for lact of a better word)...

Man, these design flaws are just all over the place.

didn't say it would fare well i just said it was better than shielding and it still did better than the 2 it took to take out a ha'tak

Apples and oranges situation.