F-302 Hyperdrive

[OculusMortis]

I'm not sure naquada tipped ammunition would help all that much. Also, Naquada is far to valuable to just throw away like that. Depleted uranium might be a far better option. Neither naquada, nor uranium will just explode on impact (if that was your thinking), but it because they are extremely dense, they both would do exceptional damage.

About the Railguns... they don't have kickback. Railguns use EM rails to accelerate projectiles rather than an explosive force such as from gun powder. Besides that, even if they did have kickback, I was thinking that a railgun would be placed where jet-fighters guns are usually placed. They are usually placed into the central core of the craft, not at the wing tips. If your thinking of the Deathgliders, they don't have kickback either. That is why Teal'c is able to carry one around, without getting knocked on his ass everytime he fires it. The staff weapons (standered and heavy) essentially accelerate a compressed amount of highly charged plasma. It is sort of similiar to the railgun, except it doesn't accelerate matter. It accelerates plasma instead. So... no need to worry about the 'center of gravity'.

Actually railguns do have recoil, as ALL actions have an equal and opposite reaction, infact this is a big factor in their design process, as the weapons conductive rails must be able to take the recoil force.

The complexity in railgun design comes from:

1. The need for strong conductive materials with which to build the rails and projectiles; the rails need to survive the violence of an accelerating projectile, and heating due to the large currents and friction involved. The force exerted on the rails consists of a recoil force - equal and opposite to the force propelling the projectile, but along the length of the rails (which is their strongest axis) - and a sideways force caused by the rails being pushed by the magnetic field, just as the projectile is. The rails need to survive this without bending, and must be very securely mounted.
2. Power supply design. The power supply must be able to deliver large currents, with both capacitors and compulsators being common.
3. Electromechanical design. The rails need to withstand enormous repulsive forces during firing, and these forces will tend to push them apart and away from the projectile. As rail/projectile clearances increase arcing develops which causes rapid vaporization and extensive damage to the rail surfaces and the insulator surfaces. This limits most research railguns to one shot per service interval.

Excerpt from this website:http://www.archaeologics.com/Technol...oS/Railgun.php
You are however right that placing the guns in the central fuselage as normal would reduce the negative effect of this recoil force.

Also plasma does have mass and velocity when fired from a staff or glider cannon, however as seen it does not move very fast, and most likely has very little mass; so its momentum would be low, and due to the mass of the weapon it is fired from, its recoil would be negligable.

[Seastallion]

Actually railguns do have recoil, as ALL actions have an equal and opposite reaction, infact this is a big factor in their design process, as the weapons conductive rails must be able to take the recoil force.



Excerpt from this website:http://www.archaeologics.com/Technol...oS/Railgun.php
You are however right that placing the guns in the central fuselage as normal would reduce the negative effect of this recoil force.

Also plasma does have mass and velocity when fired from a staff or glider cannon, however as seen it does not move very fast, and most likely has very little mass; so its momentum would be low, and due to the mass of the weapon it is fired from, its recoil would be negligable.

I suppose you're right. But, as you also pointed out, as long as the gun was placed in the primary fuselage, it shouldn't have any real major effect on the flight of the craft. As you said there is an equal/opposite reaction... however, I don't think it is the same as an explosive recoil. With a railgun your mostly dealing with structural integrity. The track in a railgun essentially wants to tear itself apart as a result of the EM field pushing the projectile. As your report said, the recoil force is spread over a wider area than a normal recoil. Instead of just a forward/reverse recoil (as normal with explosive recoil), you also have the force of the recoil diluted by lateral force exertion. This means that the forward/reverse recoil is not as severe as it might be. On the other hand, given that a railgun fires it projectiles much faster than a normal gun, the dilution effect probably doesn't mean much.

[OculusMortis]

I suppose you're right. But, as you also pointed out, as long as the gun was placed in the primary fuselage, it shouldn't have any real major effect on the flight of the craft. As you said there is an equal/opposite reaction... however, I don't think it is the same as an explosive recoil. With a railgun your mostly dealing with structural integrity. The track in a railgun essentially wants to tear itself apart as a result of the EM field pushing the projectile. As your report said, the recoil force is spread over a wider area than a normal recoil. Instead of just a forward/reverse recoil (as normal with explosive recoil), you also have the force of the recoil diluted by lateral force exertion. This means that the forward/reverse recoil is not as severe as it might be. On the other hand, given that a railgun fires it projectiles much faster than a normal gun, the dilution effect probably doesn't mean much.

Recoil depends on the mass of the projectiles which the weapon fires as well as their velocity, most railguns fire rather low mass projectiles when compared to most current weapons, but do so at a higher velocity; the effectiveness of railguns come from its high speed increasing the projectiles overall momentum, and thus its terminal force on impact; because of the higher velocity, the momentum of the round is liable to be greater than the momentum of say a 20mm cannon round, thus the recoil of the railgun would be greater than that of a 20mm cannon when firing.
However in space combat with fighters moving at extreme speeds (from what we have seen in the show) the greater weapon velocity reduces flight time to target, improving effectiveness for aiming against faster targets (ie less lead time required); thus railguns are excellent weapons for space based conflict (far more so thant the slow moving plasma weapons used by the Goauld), and their lack of moving parts means a jam is practically impossible, handy when you cant climb out of the cockpit and clear it .

[freyr's mother]

All actions have an equal and opposite reaction. True but it doesnt apply here. Since youre not actually applying any force the the slug there will be no recoil.

[OculusMortis]

All actions have an equal and opposite reaction. True but it doesnt apply here. Since youre not actually applying any force the the slug there will be no recoil.

Sorry but that is not the case, Force is exerted on the Railgun from the momentum of the projectile; its mass and velocity, unless the projectile lacks either mass or velocity there is recoil.

[freyr's mother]

Sorry but that is not the case, Force is exerted on the Railgun from the momentum of the projectile; its mass and velocity, unless the projectile lacks either mass or velocity there is recoil.

Well, you seem mighty sure of yourself. Have you ever taken a physics class? Its being propelled by magnetic fields, the railgun exerts no force against the slug. The only possible possible way to interpret what you wrote as it applies to the laws of physics is that you have the slug impacting the rg... wait there is no way to interpret that. Sure the railgun does exert force on the slug...... in the upward direction. It may be holding the slug in place but that's not recoil. I don't feel like getting all drawn into this, someone else give this guy a physics lesson.

[OculusMortis]

Well, you seem mighty sure of yourself. Have you ever taken a physics class? Its being propelled by magnetic fields, the railgun exerts no force against the slug. The only possible possible way to interpret what you wrote as it applies to the laws of physics is that you have the slug impacting the rg... wait there is no way to interpret that. Sure the railgun does exert force on the slug...... in the upward direction. It may be holding the slug in place but that's not recoil. I don't feel like getting all drawn into this, someone else give this guy a physics lesson.

It would have done your image some good to have researched railguns and magnetic fields, and perhaps flicked through the odd physics text book before taking a tone of condescension.
as you say; i also do not want to get drawn into a long thread; attempting to educate you.

go here: www.google.co.uk
type "railguns" and start researching.

[freyr's mother]

It would have done your image some good to have researched railguns and magnetic fields

I have drawn the same information time and time again in the above posts from multiple sources all clearly illustrating that the slug rides a rail propelled by magnetic fields. Dictionary.com dude type in Rail gun. You dont have like dislexia or something do you?

[OculusMortis]

I have drawn the same information time and time again in the above posts from multiple sources all clearly illustrating that the slug rides a rail propelled by magnetic fields. Dictionary.com dude type in Rail gun. You dont have like dislexia or something do you?

we arent debating semantics, we are debating PHYSICS, look at a PHYSICS site not a dictionary website, however quite intrestingly, the encyclopedic portion of dictionary.com includes an article which i linked to earlier in the thread, commenting on recoil and its effect on a railgun.
You are correct the slug rides the rail propelled by magnetic fields; the magnetic fields exert a force on the slug, and an opposite and equal force is exerted on the railgun; This is known as RECOIL

[freyr's mother]

Nothing actually touches the slug. It sits there, current comes on, it accelerates. There are MAGNETIC forces that are involved but no physical force. Besides, some scientist actually proved newton wrong and he was discussed on this forum earlier this year.

[OculusMortis]

Nothing actually touches the slug. It sits there, current comes on, it accelerates. There are MAGNETIC forces that are involved but no physical force. Besides, some scientist actually proved newton wrong and he was discussed on this forum earlier this year.

Newton has been proved wrong on many an occasion, but his 3rd law still stands in this case; the law of the conservation of momentum.
The slug has momentum, gained from an exertion of force, doesnt matter what type, thus an equal and opposite force is enacted on the railgun.

P=mv
or in this instance
m1*v1 = P = m2*v2

I wish to stop repeating myself but you leave me no choice, you choose insults and unbacked statements over actual physics knowledge, if railguns do not have recoil prove it, show me an article which says this, i linked an article in a previous post which notes that not only do railguns have recoil, but it is an important factor in their construction.
I have also witnessed a mass driver firing, while this was a coil gun, it still used magnetic force to propel its projectile, and it had a large recoil; just because railguns use magnetic force over physical force from an explosion, does no mean they are not effected by the laws of physics.

[freyr's mother]

Fcuk It!

[OculusMortis]

Fcuk It!

An amazingly well structured argument encompassing all of the factual points you have made so far.

for those who are intrested in expanding there horizons and Learning, rather than attempting to argue without reason, this site has a PUBLISHED paper on railguns and how recoil effects them.

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/20/3/023

happy reading.

[Dromag67]

it's called freedom of speech dude.

i knew some of ya'll would react like that and couldn't care less



anyway i just rememeered in star wars fighters have hyperdrive tech and shields. but trying on such a primitive craft? pheww

Not to further a pointless arguement.

But, there are rules on this forum that you pertain too, freedom of speech can be limited in certain forums for obvious reasons because of people like you inciting pointless debates about "American Arrogance"

If you want to protest go out on the streets and paint a sign about F-302's American Arrogance.

It has no place on these forums.

[zyoslancer]

Just to quickly comment, he has a right to an opinion, it's not your right to strip him of that and say he has no freedom of speech, I have it, I'm exercising it right now aren't I?

I just find it funny how you are trying to restrict his by exercising yours.

I do admit he shouldn't have made the comment, in the interest of flameless posts, but americans are kinda arrogant, you guys name everything your own way, act like you are the gods of the world etc

One example, american football, notice people of other countries don't call it japanese football, or chinese football, its just football, and the english invented it, you just call it soccer, but anyways, its american football, why not just call it rugby instead of naming everything after your super nation.

What really makes me laugh however is the fact that if you think about it, NONE of you "americans" are ACTUALLY americans, just trace your family tree back a generation or two and you'll find you came from some other country.

The only true americans are indians

But none of this is meant as a flame, just a view, take it as offence if you must, but thats just another example of the arrogance if you do as you stomp in here to defend your super nation against the tyranny of my blasphemous words ... gah! someone insulting our country? lets explode and flame the crap out of him until he realises his mistake and admits we are gods walking!

Heh, but yeah, as mentioned in previous posts on other threads, enemy ships tend to move at the speed of plot, not strict science, this is why you have the hyperdrive of an Ori ship taking that long to reach Chulak, yet in Unending you have ships capable of keeping up with Odyssey with an asgard hyperdrive with both its own powersource and a ZPM powering it, as previous episodes have mentioned a BC-304s drive with only a ZPM takes 4 days to reach atlantis as opposed to the 18 without, so you can do the math on that one and draw your own conclusions

So with the hyperdrive technology, the rate of advancement had to be slowed, which was related to plot with the naquadria, so they wouldn't perfect it anyways and they never did with the asgard installing their own limited version in the ships