jacks "ZPM" gould tech

[_Owen_]

I wasn't diagreeing with you, it would take a modification to the program however this would be an incredibly small modification, perhaps they also wanted to give them the new gate adresses, and new formula for calculating the compensation needed after thousands of years of stellar drift.

Owen Macri

[gallywag]

well in that alternate reality they had never heard of the asgard yet alone chulack maybe the hard drive also carried along the gate addy for the asgard world

[_Owen_]

Yes, that is a reasonable assumption, unless I am not remembering correctly I think the Asgard adress was in the Ancients' Repository and that is how O'Neill knew it. They didn't find it in a previous episode. However this could simply be written on a piece of paper. Perhaps is was an altered dialing program to dial the gate faster so that Carter had a better chance of gatting through the gate before the Goa'uld discovered what was going on.

Owen Macri

[Mio]

Based on what we learn on Atlantis...Very small spoilers

Spoiler:

In the Pegasus gate system, a special control crystal is required for make 8 chevrons lock. The extra crystal may not just be a 'safeguard', like, a key...but rather, it could actually contain the program required for the intergalactic lock.... If this is the case, then its possible that Milky Way gates need a similar program to get the lock, and O'Neill simply wrote one that our computers could communicate to with the gate in The Fifth Race.

[Crazedwraith]

I agree with the previous posts, allthough I don't believe that the Prometheus would be able to use Naquadria, I know that they might have said it in the show but in real life, an unstable element like Naquadria, would be unstable in any application, therfore it wouldn't be able to power anything, just blow it up.

"The O'Neill Device," as I have christend it (not to be confused with "The O'Neill Weapon") is not a ZPM, and doesn't even use Zero Point Energy. It uses simple liquid naquadah as a power source, normally this wouldn't be powerful enough to create the energy output that it does, but the liquid naquadah is also surrounded by a modulated dampening field which increases the potential yield of the naquadah, this simply makes it a really advanced naquadah reactor.

Owen Macri

Gah? How does this modulating dampning field create energy out of nowhere?
Increases the potential yei;d on the naquadah??? What?

My look on it is it's the same as the

Spoiler:

Mark II naquadah generator

from Seige PtII it simply enables to draw more power from the nquadah. This power the physics sense. Energy divided by time. Staff weapons only use small amounts of the cell over thousands of yers wheres the O'Neill Device drained it one or two (depending on whether they had to repalce the Liq. naq. cell in PoV) short bursts.

[_Owen_]

The Mark II reactor operates at a state of barley controlled overload which makes it incredibly unstable, with a load of naquadah it had just enough power to activate the chair, then if you recall, it broke, this does not seem an effective power source, deffinetly not when it is working at a state of barley controlled overload.

The O'Neill Device is far more advanced, and does use a modulated dampening field to increase the yield of the naquadah, they didn't go into any farther detail in the show because O'Neill was getting confused, but I can assume that the dampening field effects all of the space inside it including the liquid naquadah, increasing its potential energy, which inturn will increase its released energy, it is not creating energy from no where it is simply amplifying the energy. Actaully the liquid naquadah was not drained and dhould not be drained for a while, if the potential energy of the naquadah was increased 1000 times, it would also take 1000 times longer to fully expend its' power, because the ;iquid naquadah in the containers was only supposed to have so much energy drawn from it, for example, if there is noramly the equivilent to 5000 joules, just an example, than each staff burst might only require 50kw, this would expend the power source quickly but it is simply an example. With the dampening field if the power yield was increased 1000 times, it would have the potential energy of 5000000 joules, and be meant to only release 50000 joules, you could extract more but it would be more efficient to increase or decrease the modulation of the dampening field so that the potential energy yield will be increased so you are not sacrificing any more energy than necesary, the liquid naquadah cells have the potential to be still working for a significant time longer inside the dampening field than outside, in a regualar staff weapon.

Bottom line, you are not creating energy from no where, you are increasing the potential energy of everything inside the dampening field including the liquid naquadah.

Second bottom line, The O'Neill Device is a far more advanced efficient piece of technology than the Mark II, the Mark II is a disgrace to power generation, there was bassically no modifications made other than barley overloading the Naquadah to extract more power, The O'Neill device is a far more advanced Naquadah reactor.

Owen Macri

[YodaMate]

With regards to the hard drive in Point of View , i hadn't thought of it that way. That makes a lot of sense, 'our' SGC would want to give the other SGC details on anything and everything they couldn't figure out for themselves (such as the Nox, the Asgard, Ernest's planet with the Great Race meeting centre, the distance formula, the full address list, their knowledge of the Goa'uld, etc). There's heaps of stuff that the SGC would have missed had it not had Daniel and Teal'c around.

[Crazedwraith]

The Mark II reactor operates at a state of barley controlled overload which makes it incredibly unstable, with a load of naquadah it had just enough power to activate the chair, then if you recall, it broke, this does not seem an effective power source, deffinetly not when it is working at a state of barley controlled overload.

Damn, it's a while since I saw seige. Did they actually state it was broken? I thought hit had simply reacted all its naquadah.

And anyway the faults of the MKII are irrevelant, My point wasn't that the O'ND = MKII my point was that it used the same concept. Drawing all the naquadahs stored energy in a couple of huge bursts rather than in many short ones

The O'Neill Device is far more advanced, and does use a modulated dampening field to increase the yield of the naquadah,

Again: 'Increase the yield of Naquadah' Translation: make energy out of nothing. Impossible.

they didn't go into any farther detail in the show because O'Neill was getting confused, but I can assume that the dampening field effects all of the space inside it including the liquid naquadah, increasing its potential energy, which inturn will increase its released energy, it is not creating energy from no where it is simply amplifying the energy. Actaully the liquid naquadah was not drained and dhould not be drained for a while, if the potential energy of the naquadah was increased 1000 times, it would also take 1000 times longer to fully expend its' power, because the ;iquid naquadah in the containers was only supposed to have so much energy drawn from it, for example, if there is noramly the equivilent to 5000 joules, just an example, than each staff burst might only require 50kw, this would expend the power source quickly but it is simply an example. With the dampening field if the power yield was increased 1000 times, it would have the potential energy of 5000000 joules, and be meant to only release 50000 joules, you could extract more but it would be more efficient to increase or decrease the modulation of the dampening field so that the potential energy yield will be increased so you are not sacrificing any more energy than necesary, the liquid naquadah cells have the potential to be still working for a significant time longer inside the dampening field than outside, in a regualar staff weapon.

As far as I can tell, this is just technobabble baed on your increase the energy potential theory. While ignoring the fact it basically creates energy from no where.

Bottom line, you are not creating energy from no where, you are increasing the potential energy of everything inside the dampening field including the liquid naquadah.

Again, How? The energy has to come from somewhere. You're saying: Jack device switches on a magic field which enables you draw lots more power out of your ass.

I'm saying: O'Neill's device pulls all the naq. energy in two short uses comapred to the millions of small uses of the staff weapon.

Say the naq. cell contains 1000x joules.
A staff weapons is only capable of using x joule a pop, the O'ND is capalbe of drawin 500x joules.

In comparision you say. A naq cell has 1000x joules. You flip a switch on the O'ND and suddenly the naq contains 2000x joules. So where has the extra 1000x joules come from?

Second bottom line, The O'Neill Device is a far more advanced efficient piece of technology than the Mark II, the Mark II is a disgrace to power generation, there was bassically no modifications made other than barley overloading the Naquadah to extract more power, The O'Neill device is a far more advanced Naquadah reactor.

Owen Macri

A far more advanced reactor that you say creates energy out of nowhere.

[_Owen_]

even using all of the energy of the naquadah cells in one shot would not be enough to power an eight chevron lock. A Mark II with a significant amount more naquadah could not power an eight chevron lock, we know this because if it could they would have dialed atlantis using a mark II and sent the ZPM through. Even with all of the potential energy in the two liquid naquadah cells, I don't believe the gate would have had enough power to stay open for more than a couple minutes with a seven chevron lock let alone an eight chevron lock.

The vision that energy is being created from no where is formed due to limited information and a compromised point of view. You think that the potential yield of the naquadah can not be increased because it SEEMS, and I stress, SEEMS as though energy is being created from no where.

I am not sure how to explain this in anymore detail, if I knew more about the dampening field being used I could give you mathematical equations and scientific explinations as to how exactly the yield is increased, unfortunatly I don't, the dampening field simply increases the potential energy of the naquadah, the field, causes the yield to be increased, I am sorry that I don't know more about it, but I will work on it and see what I come up with.

One example that I can think of is the hyperspace theory, in hyperspace you can travel a greater distance relative to normal space at the same speed that you might travel in normal space, it SEEMS as though you are traveling faster than light, when you are actually traveling significantly slower than light.

This is a terrible analogy, but it is the only one that I can think of.
You take a balloon into space, filled with air, when it leaves the confines of the ship and is introduced to the vacum of space the air expand attempting to fill the void, which is obviously unfilable using only the air of a common balloon. This is a terrible analogy because the reason the balloon expands is because the air is expanding and stretching thinner and thinner, where as the naquadahs' potential yield is being increased.

The reason that you see it as "creating energy out of nothing," is the same reason why if you went back in time and drove in a car it would seem like magic, because the people of the time period did not have the understanding to realise that a car was just a simple device using fuel to inturn create the kinetic energy and the forward momentum of the car. No offence.

Owen Macri

[Crazedwraith]

even using all of the energy of the naquadah cells in one shot would not be enough to power an eight chevron lock.

Ya, huh. Prove it. Mackay got an eight chevron lock with normal naq generators. He just couldn't power to very long. I point you to 'Absolute Power' where Sam's astounded by Daniel's use of liquid naq. We have no idea how it compares to other varieties but we've never used it. It could be much more power than the solid stuff we stick in reactors.

A Mark II with a significant amount more naquadah could not power an eight chevron lock, we know this because if it could they would have dialed atlantis using a mark II and sent the ZPM through. Even with all of the potential energy in the two liquid naquadah cells, I don't believe the gate would have had enough power to stay open for more than a couple minutes with a seven chevron lock let alone an eight chevron lock.

Jack's code could have done more than simply enable eight chev locking. We know wormholes can draw power from the Gate it going to. (Watergate, 48 Hours) Maybe the O'ND gave it enough power to 8 lock for long enough for the Asgards DHD to power the wormhole (Home shows us they can)

-snip long explanation of the Increase energy potential-
Owen Macri

Bottom line: After this field come into effect you can draw lots more energy from the naquadah, where does this come from?

Answer that, I'll conceed.

And I'm also employing Occam's Razor. The simplest theory wins. The O'ND simply using more energy in one go is a lot simly than the O'ND lots of energy from it as--dampening field.

I'd like to also know the origin of this Dampening field theory, is it based on something theysaid in Fifth Race or Point of View?

[_Owen_]

In the episode "Letters From Pegasus" Mckay uses what little power remains in the Zero Point Module to dial Earth.

In "Absolute Power" Daniel uses liquid naquadah to power simple weapons devices, the power required for use of energy weapons of the type that Daniel built, pales in comparison to the amount of energy needed to power the Stargate.

No the O'Neill device would have engaged the wormhole and immediatly died, however the device stayed active through the entire time that the gate was open then when the gate was shut down the device simply deactivated, the reason was because it was programed to deactivate after use, the reason it couldn't simply be turned back on was because the modulation of the dampening field was lost and when the device tried to reactivate it didn't work because the device was only programed to work on the one modulation. Also the liquid Naquadah cells, were not expended they were still usable in "Point of View."

I would very much like to explain to you EXACTLY how it works but I can't because they havn't explained it in the show, I am working on how it can work but I am not finished. As far as I can tell the space inside the field can be compared to another dimension, in another dimension the same amount of naquadah could have a higher energy yield, inside the field the energy yield is increased because it is like a seprate confined dimension, where matter has an increase potential energy yield, then when the energy is passed out of the device, the device keeps the amount of energy at that yield so more energy can be extracted. There is no other way that I can currently explain this, without either having them tell us on the show, or continue searching.

This dampening field theory is from "Point of View"

CARTER
My best guess is that the device creates a modulated dampening field around the liquefied naquada cell.

SAMANTHA
Which controls the energy transfer to the capacitors. So maybe the modulation is thrown out of whack each time it's activated.

CARTER
That's exactly what I thought. But how to you even begin to recalibrate a field that you can't generate in the first place…?

O'NEILL
(cutting them off)
Hey, hey, hey! Are you Carters going to be able to figure this out?

CARTER
Colonel!

[The alternate Samantha Carter enters the room, followed by Carter who is holding the Asgard generator.]

SAMANTHA
We did it!

O'NEILL
Already?

SAMANTHA
Yes, all we needed was the ratio of the decay rate of naquada relative to the energy output.

CARTER
Which I learned to calculate when I learned about our new naquada generator. It's just the ratio…

O'NEILL
(cutting them off)
Ah-Ah! It works, right?

[Samantha reaches over and flips a switch. The generator starts to glow.]

CARTER
It works.

As you can see, the Carters are cut off each time they try to explain it.

If you consider things that happen in the show evidence, here is your proof, if not there is nothing that I can explain that I have not already, I will continue my research.

Owen Macri

[Crazedwraith]

The quote:

CARTER
My best guess is that the device creates a modulated dampening field around the liquefied naquada cell.

SAMANTHA
Which controls the energy transfer to the capacitors. So maybe the modulation is thrown out of whack each time it's activated.

Emphasis aded by me. Would seem to support my theory not more. The field just allows a heck of a lot more energy to be shift at once.

[Mio]

Theoretically, We could get a ton of energy from matter (e=mc^2). However, limitations in technology prevent that from ever happening efficiently. The 'dampening field' obviously can't create energy, that's just silly. It must simply increase the efficiency of the transfer of energy from the normal Naquada reaction....

[_Owen_]

There is only so much energy, you are suggesting using it all at the same time as a large burst, not only is this not the case but it wouldn't work, a liquid naquadah cell does not have enough energy to power an eight chevron lock, and you would not need a dampening field to use all of the energy in one shot.

To tell you the truth, I actually didn't even see the part about the capacitors, this does seem to suggest that there is simply more energy drawn from the naquadah, but you could do this without a damping field, so what was the point of building an intricate device that includes a very complex dampening field, to our knowledge, instead of simple connecting the liquid naquadah cells, and either control the flow of energy manualy or with another device that id controlled by the computer.

As I have said before it is not energy from nothing, inside the dampening field all energy is increased and the dampening field also allows the energy to pass out at that amount, therefore using less of your power source to power something incredibly larger than the device would normally be capable of powering.

Owen Macri

[Crazedwraith]

There is only so much energy, you are suggesting using it all at the same time as a large burst, not only is this not the case but it wouldn't work, a liquid naquadah cell does not have enough energy to power an eight chevron lock, and you would not need a dampening field to use all of the energy in one shot.

Prove it. Abd by that I mean: Present calculations you have done to quantifiy the energy needed for a lock. Prove that a liquid naq. cell can't supply this much. Just becuase you claim something doesn't make it true.

I'm using a theory that doesn't break the laws of conservation of energy. Yours does. Thus yours is impossible.