'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[prion]

NEWSFLASH:
From now on, every time a poster manages to make a comparison of an SGU episode to something OTHER THAN SG1 or SGA, I will green you, whether I like the comparison or not, agree or not. Green I say!

does that mean I get a green for the Farscape mention?

[carmencatalina]

does that mean I get a green for the Farscape mention?

I was totally, totally going to green you for that (Farscape - a great, great show, IMHO), but then you had to bring up SGA, and I just can't do it. You canceled out your green, man. Am sad.

[YoshiKart64]

This wasn't my favourite episode of the show but it had it's cool moments. Basically all the non flashing stuff was good - I thought they were going somewhere but apparently not.

Yeh we all hate the SGA/SG-1 comparisons but you could literally shove the episode in one of those shows and it would fit.

Other thoughts:
- No Ming-Na this week. Odd since they actually made her character interesting last episode, she got Eli's mum to the ship despite her desire to have something similar for herself. I hope her character develops further in this manner rather than her being the office type of S1.
- Telford didn't do much...kinda wish he had.
- Greer was awesome - need more Greer.
- TJ was actually pretty awesome too - keep developing the female characters!
- Rush - "please tell me you didn't do this to keep a dying boy company" - genuine compassion from Rush or sadness he's loosing her 'power'? I actually thought the former and it was nice to see that side of Rush. Possibly my favourite line of the episode.
- Gate taking the head of the plant monster = awesome.

[otaku]

This! I'm a little disheartened by all the negativity because it doesn't match what I experienced at all! Pity.

Exactly. This is the type of episode that is much better for rewatching later - look at some of the older SG1 episodes with the Apophis storyline, compared to the more self-contained ones where the characters have a bit of space to bring their own personality to the game rather than dancing on strings to satisfy plot demands. One of my favourite episodes was "Window of Opportunity" - perfect balance of comedy, scifi and character - and apart from a similar Ancient console cropping up a bit later the entire episode could have been skipped without affecting the main season storyline at all.

I liked the way this episode had three sides of Rush - "cut his arm off", "use Chloe to save his life" and "you're going to die, Scott" (I loved that entire scene, from Scott's "You're marrying me tonight?" to Rush's boots). It had the stargate. Alien lifeforms - a global connected lifeform which was a nice nod back to SG1's "One False Step", only this time the shoe was on the other foot. The splicing in and out of the dream world worked well for me - and I found the whole thing kept just the right amount of tension and excitement. And I'm not sure why but the "Just tell me the right thing to do.... Wake up!" exchange between Scott and Young really stood out for me... particularly when he *does* eventually wake up: the sequence from Scott seeing Chloe's alien side, waking up *with her next to him* on some alien world, with a blue hunk of crystal on his arm that smashes off, being ushered through the stargate to be told he's in quarantine - c'mon, that was great! Talk about having a bad day!

I'm *loving* season 2. I'm really looking forward to finding out what's going to happen, what the real Destiny mission is, and what they're going to find on the next planet - but the series isn't just about big revelations and things that explode, episodes like this reassure me that when I buy this season on DVD there's going to be the same sort of variety I really enjoyed with SG1. Some of the comments seem to be saying "the series is on borrowed time, how dare they put in anything that's not pushing the story with non-stop action through the episode" - I think that's a shortsighted approach, we've already run into one of the seeder ships recently and that's not something I expected until the end of the season (or later!). What's the rush?

I really hope this series gets another season or more to fill out the story - but even if it does get cancelled sooner than SG1 or Atlantis, I'm thankful for what I've seen so far. There isn't another series on air that I've found nearly as entertaining, it's introduced me to some actors that I'd not appreciated before, and I think everyone involved has done an excellent job in bringing it to the screen.

[derrickh]

I still refuse to buy that Chloe suddenly became a genius exobiologist and knew the blood transfusion would work. After she get herself bitten, the first thing she said wasnt 'Quick, lets get my blood into Scott because I'm immune.' No, the first thing she said was 'Now I can stay'. Her big motivation was to rebel against TJ, her mother figure.

But lets move past Chloe's reckless, spoiled, childish behavior. Why did the blood thing work at all? People are saying it was a 1 in 8 chance because of the blood type match. Well, how would she know her alien stuff could be transmitted by blood? It could be DNA based, or chromosome manipulation, or just space stuff that we dont know. She took a 1 in a million chance.

And if it can be transmitted through blood. Then Scot should've been infected a long time ago. Let's be clear, he and Chloe have been doing the nasty like rabbits since she got back from the alien ship and to say it in the most clinical terms possible, fluids would definitely have been exchanged . As it's laid out in the show, Chloe would have more than likely passed on her space STD to Scott weeks ago.

[jelgate]

I still refuse to buy that Chloe suddenly became a genius exobiologist and knew the blood transfusion would work. After she get herself bitten, the first thing she said wasnt 'Quick, lets get my blood into Scott because I'm immune.' No, the first thing she said was 'Now I can stay'. Her big motivation was to rebel against TJ, her mother figure.

But lets move past Chloe's reckless, spoiled, childish behavior. Why did the blood thing work at all? People are saying it was a 1 in 8 chance because of the blood type match. Well, how would she know her alien stuff could be transmitted by blood? It could be DNA based, or chromosome manipulation, or just space stuff that we dont know. She took a 1 in a million chance.

And if it can be transmitted through blood. Then Scot should've been infected a long time ago. Let's be clear, he and Chloe have been doing the nasty like rabbits since she got back from the alien ship and to say it in the most clinical terms possible, fluids would definitely have been exchanged . As it's laid out in the show, Chloe would have more than likely passed on her space STD to Scott weeks ago.

Death or a possible solution with a transfusion. I'd go with the probable. And to call Chloe say inaccurate. They didn't know she was immune until later. Chloe suspected but wasn't sure

[carmencatalina]

You know, Rush was pretty admirable in this episode (let's focus on real!Rush and not hallucination!Rush).

(1) He offered to run back to the gate and get stuff, and he ran pretty fast and furiously.

(2) He kept his wits about him, getting stuff in increasing levels of urgency (alien venom to start, acid to try to burn the stuff off, a bone saw if all else failed).

(3) He was unsentimental about the possible amputation, but it was an extreme situation, and it was obviously something that needed to be considered (and TJ agreed).

(4) When TJ sent all non-military personnel back, Rush didn't go - he stayed and helped TJ with the transfusion, up until the moment when Greer told Rush and TJ both to go. He's been called a coward many times - this didn't seem very cowardly at all.

Overall, real!Rush gets full points.

Now, hallucination!Rush - well, he had some fabulous boots.

[Blackhole]

It think some viewers may forget that this is a much more character driven show than the prior two series and is far more soapy. That being said, imo the Cloverdale portion contributed quite a bit to our understanding of the characters.

It reinforced that Scott has an idealistic view of Young both as a commander and a father figure. We learned from his conversation with justice of the peace Rush that Scott is aware of Young’s developing alcohol problem and later at the wedding when Young becomes very defensive after he asks him for advice Scott realizes that Young doesn’t have all the answers and is not handling the pressure of command well. He realizes he needs to start thinking more for himself and make his own decisions both personally and as second in command.

It was made clearer Scott loves Chloe but is torn with doubts. He knows they are very different and his love may be partially motivated out of a sense of obligation and duty. He recognizes his attraction for James and her strong feelings for him.

The last interchange between Young and Scott and Chloe was particularly telling. Young appeared clearly upset and angry that Chloe’s blood had been used to save Scott. Instead of being relieved he was cold and formal when he notified them that they would both be placed in indefinite quarantine. Young was incredibly short sighted to treat Scott in this fashion. It was not his fault Chloe’s blood was used to save him considering the alternative was death. Scott appeared very surprised, hurt and betrayed that his commander whom he held in such a high regard was going to so cavalierly lock them both up. I suspect Young’s foolish action will be a very strident wake up call to Scott and will permanently damage his relationship with him and I think it will set the stage down the road for Scott’s support of a command change as Young continues to deteriorate.

[Kaiphantom]

You know, Rush was pretty admirable in this episode (let's focus on real!Rush and not hallucination!Rush).

(1) He offered to run back to the gate and get stuff, and he ran pretty fast and furiously.

(2) He kept his wits about him, getting stuff in increasing levels of urgency (alien venom to start, acid to try to burn the stuff off, a bone saw if all else failed).

(3) He was unsentimental about the possible amputation, but it was an extreme situation, and it was obviously something that needed to be considered (and TJ agreed).

(4) When TJ sent all non-military personnel back, Rush didn't go - he stayed and helped TJ with the transfusion, up until the moment when Greer told Rush and TJ both to go. He's been called a coward many times - this didn't seem very cowardly at all.

Overall, real!Rush gets full points.

Now, hallucination!Rush - well, he had some fabulous boots.

Ya know, I hardly ever green people (I dislike rep systems in general), but I made an exception here. No one else gave Rush credit for his actions here, which show him doing his best to help people, and not being cowardly... which immediately dispels any notion that he is sociopathic or psychopathic. But this is something I've said all along: Rush is merely acting logically, and is quite willing to do what needs to be done to help others in a jam.

So, someone accurately analyzing Rush's character on this fandom? That's unpossible!

Edit: to add one more thing about Rush from this episode:

When TJ asked someone to hold the arm, Rush immediately grabbed some cloth to wrap around it and was going to hold it. Say what you will, but that takes guts, knowing you're going to be holding an infected arm that will shortly be severed. I wonder how many here could do that.

[OutandAboot]

I've always hated flashback scenes on SG and this one is without exception.

Good thing it wasn't a flashback episode then.

No, the first thing she said was 'Now I can stay'. Her big motivation was to rebel against TJ, her mother figure.

First time I've heard the theory that TJ is a mother figure to Chloe. Do you really believe that?

[carmencatalina]

When TJ asked someone to hold the arm, Rush immediately grabbed some cloth to wrap around it and was going to hold it. Say what you will, but that takes guts, knowing you're going to be holding an infected arm that will shortly be severed. I wonder how many here could do that.

Good point, he did look like he had to steel himself a bit to do it, as you would, because you have to be ready for something like that. He sort of takes a deep breath or pauses for a second, finds the cloth, wraps the arm, and is then ready. I liked that little bit of acting by Mr. Carlyle - he consistently makes these small moments real for me.

[leiasky]

If you took out some of the dream scenes, since some were a little boring, this would of been an excellent episode. I think they just used that as a filler plot to feed the story to see what was going on with Scott. I think they should of used some of that time to maybe have scenes on the Destiny and the LA.

But yeah felt like The Changelling all they way. Actually it was exactly like the Changeling. Think about it...

The planet-side action was good. (minus the whole soapy Chloe must dieeeeee with the boyfriend thing). Greer was kick ass as usual. Everything else was just terriblly boring.

The Changeling isn't one of my top 100 episodes of SG-1 but I never really enjoyed Teal'c focused episodes.

[Sp!der]

I just watched it and I loved it... all the way... the hallucinations... the aliens... greer was awesome this episode... great to see ldp again (never thought to say this!) music, rush was liekable this time! Great...

[Ashizuri]

And if it can be transmitted through blood. Then Scot should've been infected a long time ago. Let's be clear, he and Chloe have been doing the nasty like rabbits since she got back from the alien ship and to say it in the most clinical terms possible, fluids would definitely have been exchanged . As it's laid out in the show, Chloe would have more than likely passed on her space STD to Scott weeks ago.

Just because "fluids have been exchanged" doesn't mean anything was passed on. You could have unprotected sex with someone HIV positive a million times and there is no guarantee you'd ever contract the virus. It's all a roll of the dice and clearly, her "Space STD" wasn't passed on. It's also possibly becasue (1) it's not an STD of any sort and it's ridiculous to refer to it as such and (2) we don't know if it's a virus or infection or a disease that is only transeferable through blood transfusion/organ transplant or any other host of options. But we do know what it's not, and it's not a sexually transmitted disease, so why don't we quit using that fun little moniker.

[Kaiphantom]

Just because "fluids have been exchanged" doesn't mean anything was passed on. You could have unprotected sex with someone HIV positive a million times and there is no guarantee you'd ever contract the virus. It's all a roll of the dice and clearly, her "Space STD" wasn't passed on. It's also possibly becasue (1) it's not an STD of any sort and it's ridiculous to refer to it as such and (2) we don't know if it's a virus or infection or a disease that is only transeferable through blood transfusion/organ transplant or any other host of options. But we do know what it's not, and it's not a sexually transmitted disease, so why don't we quit using that fun little moniker.

Except, as this little blood transfusion shows, it *is* possible for whatever Chloe has to be transferred. I agree with the others; Scott should have had space STD's long before this. In fact, as soon as they learned what Chloe had, Scott should have been put on a No-Nookie diet to prevent what Chloe has from spreading. So it's kind of a plot hole, because tiny bits of blood *can* be exchanged during sex, as part of the fluids. And anything that is affecting Chloe on the genetic level, will be present in all her fluids.