'Alliances' (213) General Discussion

[knowles2]

While I understand where you are coming from I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. First it wasn't just Homeworld Command considering leaving the crew behind it was the US Senate, and since they control the USAF's budget they would ultimately have the final say. Second, the LA has been angry at Earth since they first appeared on SG-1. They want to establish their own little empires and are willing to use force to do so and probably don't feel they owe anybody anything for the fall of the Goa'uld. Finally Dr. Covel did say that Destiny predated all known Ancient technologies

Not only do they not feel owe anybody anything, they feel that Earth cause more problems than they solved and I believe one of them even said Earth should be doing more to help them and also blame Earth for many of the other problems in the galaxy. At least that vaguely what I remember from a previous episode.

[s09119]

Source?

Stargate SG-1, "Bounty." You know, the episode where Earth declared war on the Lucian Alliance.

[sgc]

Off the top of my head...

Atlantis:
Trinity
Grace Under Pressure
No Man's Land
Be All My Sins Remember'd
Outcast
The Kindred
Whispers

SG-1:
The First Commandment
Cold Lazarus
Fire and Water
Singularity
Enigma
There But For the Grace of God
Show and Tell

There's more, but I didn't go through every season to check. As I said, these were just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure someone can twist a title to make some kind of sense given the episode, but at best, it would be tenuous. Not that Stargate is the only series to suffer from this; not all titles can be witty references to the episode or properly convey what is going on.

Edit: A partial "nevermind" as it seems we were talking about SGU in particular. I will admit SGU has been a bit better in this regard, thought we're only a season and a half in. Some of their episode titles have been a bit tenuous, but better grounded then past SG series.

Grace Under Pressure - McKay remained somewhat calm/graceful while under the pressure (literally/figuratively)
No Man's Land - They were in the middle of the void between galaxies - AKA "no man's land"
Outcast - Sheppard was the "outcast" against his father/family

The First Commandment - He was in direct violation of the First Commandment
Fire and Water - It showed Daniel on fire on the planet while he was in the water.

I hope the SGC is still at Cheyenne Mountain. Or I will be sad.

Technically speaking, it has to be for the following reasons:

1. In 1969, they were sent into the future, where they were sent back, but the gate was in the SGC.
2. They wouldn't move it to Washington due to the obvious security/safety risk.
3. Cheyenne Mountain is a good place to hide a secret Air Force project and make sure that it was safe from intrusion and unwanted alien escape.

[jsonitsac]

1. In 1969, they were sent into the future, where they were sent back, but the gate was in the SGC.
2. They wouldn't move it to Washington due to the obvious security/safety risk.
3. Cheyenne Mountain is a good place to hide a secret Air Force project and make sure that it was safe from intrusion and unwanted alien escape.

4. It also would have been pretty expensive to move it to the Pentagon, besides, where, inside of a massive office building, would you put it?

[sgc]

4. It also would have been pretty expensive to move it to the Pentagon, besides, where, inside of a massive office building, would you put it?

Well, they could've beamed the gate itself and most of the hardware, personnel, weapons, etc, but that's not what the expensive part would be. The expensive part would be paperwork, having employees move (unless they set up an orbital space station that has beaming tech, which would be quite expensive), new employees, codes, etc.

They could put it in a sub-basement, which would also cost a lot of money to put in, but the security threat would be too great. If an offworld hostile force came through, they'd be in the command center of the nation. Very bad. If they had to do the autodestruct sequence, it would blow up the pentagon. Very bad. If there was a lockdown, nobody in the Pentagon could contact the outside (if it's that kind of lockdown), or leave, etc. It would make Washington, DC an even higher priority target for alien hostiles, and cover-ups harder. Imagine if there was a time dilation field, or another incidence of an alien entity (digital) taking over the base computers, then the Pentagon would also be affected. Very very bad.

[BOTA:99]

I just am not a huge fan of the stones tbh. I am not against their existence and feel they have a place in the story as they were introduced very well with sg1. I just wish they drew like a huge amount of power or something so that they can only be used very rarely or something like that. It just ruins some of the peril and cut offness? that they should be going through.

Anyways, just my 2 cents

[sgc]

I just am not a huge fan of the stones tbh. I am not against their existence and feel they have a place in the story as they were introduced very well with sg1. I just wish they drew like a huge amount of power or something so that they can only be used very rarely or something like that. It just ruins some of the peril and cut offness? that they should be going through.

Anyways, just my 2 cents

Well, TBH, without the stones, they all would have killed each other by now.

[Kaiphantom]

Stargate SG-1, "Bounty." You know, the episode where Earth declared war on the Lucian Alliance.

I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

[General Jumper One]

I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

I remember them declaring war after the captain of the Odyssey was killed.

[sgc]

I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

Stargate SG-1: Company Of Thieves - 42:50 "We have officially declared war on the Lucian Alliance

I used Hulu Caption Search to find the quote. It's an amazing service.

[Kaiphantom]

Well, that was a different episode than was provided before, so I see your point (although I don't support Hulu for various reasons and thus don't use it). But ironically, this episode also proves my point:

SLAVIASH
He has lost his mind. The Tau'ri will declare all out war on us!

Even the LA recognize what screwing with Earth will mean, which means it's a stupid plot line, and reveals that the writers still don't quite understand what a loosely-affiliated group of murdering, pirating clans led by warlords actually means. They are a disparate groups with disparate goals and interests; it's like declaring war on all muslims because a few of them blew up a building.

But anyway,the LA do apparently recognize that attacking and antagonizing Earth is a bad idea. So we're brought back to the same point as earlier: attacking Earth, further antagonizing them, is a stupid idea.

[morbosfist]

Sooner or later there was bound to be a group that wouldn't see attacking Earth as suicidally stupid, and this is that group. Netan was never willing to go on the offensive, but he's dead. Whoever took charge in his wake is obviously tired of the sabotage and intends to deal with it. They may be biting off more than they can chew, but it's not like that is uncommon.

[garhkal]

Covel only sabotaged the enhanced command signal. It is literally impossible for him to have sabotaged it before then, because he never had a chance.

True, he only messed it up after it was already not working.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

The people aboard Destiny will likely never go home. Many of them have chosen to stay and those that don't want to stay don't have much of a choice, as the previous episode proves out. So what now? Now comes the time when those aboard will have to choose where they stand, to choose their alliances, and they aren't the only ones.

Over the past year, the crew have gone from being opposing camps – allied to either the military or the civilian contingent – to being a more or less cohesive unit, with the opposing forces coming from without. The Lucian Alliance, the various aliens and hardships, this opposition has been confronted and dealt with but the crew now faces a worse adversity in the form of their own people.

This isn't the first time that Earth has tried to interfere in affairs aboard Destiny, but the events of “Alliances” have certainly sharpened those divisions. Not soldiers, not scientists, but worse. Earth has sent the politicians, the accountants and, in the form of Covell, someone whose allegiances can't truly be ascertained.

When I first looked at pictures of the Senator that had stoned aboard Destiny, I saw a strong, proud woman. I imagined that her role would also be a strong one. And then she opened her mouth and all I could think of was that it was such a shame that she was so painfully shallow. Of course, that was the point. Every time that the Senator spoke, she sounded disingenuous, picking and choosing her words depending upon whom she was talking to at the moment.

Perhaps at its most blatant is in her conversations with Chloe. At the beginning of the journey, Chloe was being groomed to follow in her father's footsteps and I have no doubt that with her connections, or at least her father's connections, she could go far in this role. The Senator goes too far when she says that Chloe's situation is a “waste”, especially given all of the things that Chloe has done so far and what she continues to be capable of. What would truly be a waste is Chloe being a mere politician at this point. It is this smallness, this provincialism and concern solely with the small matters of Earth politics as it pertains to themselves, that the Senator and Covell appear to bring with them. They seem to be, for the most part, incapable of even seeing the crew of the Destiny or of their mission, because it means nothing to them. The Senator's saving grace is that, by the end of the episode, she may be close to truly seeing the error of her beliefs and while the Senator's possible change in her personal allegiances won't change anything for her personally, acknowledging Chloe's choice is a kindness. There is also the last poignant act where, knowing she is certain to die, she runs the dust through her fingers. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. She has just seen the most incredible thing any human has ever seen and it's over, done, and her life is gone. All of the things that she thought were so important are wiped away – the politics, the bureaucracy, it's all just small potatoes.

Between the Destiny and the Earth scientists, the lines are also being drawn. Those on Earth don't seem to think much of those who are doing the hands on work aboard Destiny. It's always “the best minds on Earth” have done this, that, or the next thing, but all of that is done at a distance, not risking their own lives and when their own lives are thrown into the balance, those Earth scientists are found lacking. Whether it's the Earth scientists making a run for it during the first dialling within the star, or Covell's cowardly act of sabotaging the stones in order to steal Greer's body, Earth has shown that they are clearly not in alliance with the Destiny.

Rush, who has, over time and great effort, earned the respect of those aboard Destiny, even Col. Young, is shunted aside continually by Earth scientists. Eli, while clearly brilliant, is generally viewed as a child. The other scientists aboard Destiny are shunted aside entirely, not even drawing notice. This crew has been hands on, they have lived and breathed, and survived, aboard Destiny, long after the Earth scientists expected them to perish, and yet the Earth scientists continue to dismiss them. “The best minds on earth” pale in comparison to the least of the scientists aboard Destiny, at least where the Destiny is concerned.

Heavily featured here is the alliance between Greer and Wray, two people with a troubled history with each other. With everything that has happened between them, it does me some good to see them fully support each other in this way.

Their slung insults are important in setting the stage for how much they both have changed, for how much they have both opened up and become more than the small roles of soldier and politician that opened them. In the beginning, Greer may have been the image of the perfect soldier – no pain, no fear – but in episode after episode, he has opened up and become something so much more, showing an incredibly deep array of emotions. In being injured in the collapse, we are reminded of Greer's fear during the “Lost/Human” episodes, and the injury itself takes Greer out of the picture as an active participant in their rescue.

Wray has also moved far beyond the minor human relations official that she started out as and manages, despite Greer's jab, to get a great deal of work done. She has, as she tells Evans, learned a great deal from the scientists while aboard Destiny, but she's learned a lot more. She has taken a hands on role in her own life, rather than delegating tasks to others. She has become more than a mere politician and her continuing bravery has me cheer for her with every new episode. The two of them have sorely needed this time together since “Pain” and it was good to see them talk, laugh and open up to each other.

The Lucian Alliance is something I've left until last because it is the most obvious image that comes to mind from the title. The attack by the Alliance has been a long time building and so having a ship crash with a bomb wasn't a surprise in and of itself. Having Varro volunteer information on defusing the bomb puts him solely in Destiny's court, although I sense growing jealousy by Col. Young regarding the friendship (and more?) between TJ and Varro. In the last episode, several Lucian Alliance members chose to stay aboard Destiny, so their alliances are plain to see.

Which brings me to Telford. As with every episode where Telford makes an appearance, I can't help but wonder where he stands. Did Telford wish to be able to stone into his alternate body in case whatever plan at hand on Earth failed (or succeeded?) and he needed to have a body to escape to? Did he wish to stone back into his own body in order to avoid the stone glitches that outed him in the first place?

It is clear from events that Telford was brainwashed by the Lucian Alliance but the Alliance could have used the technique as a fail-safe measure, rather than a sole method of turning Telford into an enemy agent. In other words, what if eradication of the brainwash didn't change Telford's true allegiance and he is still a Lucian Alliance agent?

How else can the existence of Evans – a man bearing a clan tattoo, acting strangely enough that Wray could pick up that something was wrong with him – continue to operate at the base? Wouldn't Telford be aware of other Lucian Alliance agents, given his long-time undercover work, once he was no longer brainwashed? After all, he mentioned to Young that he had memory of all the things that he had done, so why not of all the people he would have met? He passed files on the Destiny crew to Evans for a reason and I believe that reason is that, brainwash or not, Telford remains an enemy agent.

Like many lines in SGU regarding Telford, I believe that the writers are slowly building up to a great reveal with Telford's character, tied to the Lucian Alliance attack on the base where they – Young, Greer, Telford, and others – were once stationed, and that was bombed when Telford kept quiet to keep his undercover role.

Sadly, there may not be time for this storyline to fully play out before the end of the season, and the series.

There is a lot going on in this episode, with so many questions and points that are being built upon to be explored throughout what remains of the season. The depth of the infiltration of the Lucian Alliance among the power structure on Earth, the secrets held by Rush and others, and some interesting developments with the stones, both from a scientific and moral standpoint, to say nothing of the ties between those on board and the fallout that is set up by this planting of small ripples that will be expanded on throughout the remaining episodes. As a story-building episode much like “Life” and “Earth”, this episode gets a solid eight.


Rating: 8/10

[Krisz]

Great review Evilgrin! Nicely put observations on what is going on back on Earth and various peoples' motives and secrets. However, I just still can't get past the need for harking back to what the Lucian Alliance is doing in a galaxy far far away!!!

Most of the crew want to stay on board Destiny, they are curious about what the 'meaning of life stuff is'. Why oh why do they cling to what is going on on Earth when it has nothing to do with their real everyday situation?! It's understandable that it allows them to keep in touch with the familiar for sanity's sake, but come on, having 'justify the expense' bean counters and senators, and scientists who can only theorise and never get enough experience of Destiny's systems to make complete informed decisions, using the stones to come on board and dictate policy makes no sense.

At the end of the day, what difference does it really make to those who have to endure the real hardship and dangers of being on Destiny? That is what matters, not what events are unfolding billions of light years away. I guess I've really decided I'm fed up with the LA attacking Earth thing!

When there's so much to wonder about what lies before and within Destiny, I'm finding it frustrating seeing time from the last few episodes being taken up looking backwards.