Was it really necessary to show James at the end?

[KEK]

If they wanted to show us how she felt, then yes, obviously.

[FallenAngelII]

If they wanted to show us how she felt, then yes, obviously.

You can portray sadness without showing someone bawling their eyes out.

[EllieVee]

No. I'm saying it's unrealistic for James to suddenly break down in tears for relatively minor things when we have seen male characters not break down in tears over much more traumatizing situations.


Wait... what? How in the flying fig is this consistent with anything? It's just something the writers sprung up on us now. We've never seen any indication that she was gonna break down emotionally (and cry) until now.

Bearing in mind I haven't seen the scene in question, I would suggest that a viewing of the extended version of Air would put it into context and further suggest that given that scene, it's been coming for a while.

[MattSilver 3k]

But what do I know. Writers, prove me wrong. Show us a man, preferrably a big strong man like Greer, break down into tears due to relationship troubles or something. Then I'll consider it even and realistic instead of it just being yet another woman being "a woman" (not "human", but "a woman"), crying over stuff "women often cry over" like getting dumped or not having a boyfriend.

Scott cried over his knocking up of Annie Balic back in Air.

In my little opinion, James' little jag is a culmination of events: Back in the Air extended version, her talk with Young was a good precursor to this. Every strong person, woman or man, can have weaker moments. Note that she was crying alone, and we, the audience, saw it. All through the episode, we saw her embarrass herself in front of Caine in a weaker moment, followed by some hero moments with turning off the power and protecting the civvies. She then went off and helped out TJ with the injured. No crying. No weak moments.

The battle ends soon after. She's alone in her quarters, and things are just too much. Why show her weaker moment in this episode, you ask? Because it was here we saw most of her strong moments. Let's see... In Air she was just a soldier gal who we saw fooling around with Scott (And I firmly believe that she instigated it too - it takes two to tango), in Darkness she went all threaten-y on Eli and Riley's juvenile antics, and her Kino thing revealed that she, too, was scared of dying out there. In Light, the look of relief on her face as she found out she could go on the shuttle. In Water she made a bitter comment to Scott, but I doubt she was pissed at either him or Chloe. A few episodes down the track, she does a few hero moves, comes close to being shocked, and then... WHAM. Maybe it just hits her for the first time, and we see it.

Was it necessary to show James at the end? Well, I believe all characters have dimensions, and that a big dimension is how they act in front of people. And we saw her other, not-in-front-of-people dimension during the song montage. So yeah, to me, it was cool and made us aware that she might be up there as a risky character to watch (Along with Spencer, who killed himself and Volker, who may snap in the future).

Then again, I liked the moment because I don't dissect everything and make it about sexism or racism.

[KEK]

You can portray sadness without showing someone bawling their eyes out.

That depends on how upset they are.

[The_Asgard_live]

I had to sign up and post just because i saw this. However, long time reader around here. Hello everyone .

Hello!

Man, false gods forgive me, can't believe I would willingly choose to defend what I think is a feminist point of view on this... or anything for that matter.

Basically what i am trying to communicate here is this:

- This is not sexist.. it is human.
- Try watching the show from a dynamic perspective without cookie cutter stereotypes. Understand the social/psychological dynamic.
- Just because someone is bad ass at their job and can kick guy's asses does not mean that they are invulnerable in their personal life.
- It hurts your argument when you make the sexist call and then support this by assuming other stereotypical positions. Especially the fact that you had to comment on her breasts. What does that have to do with anything?
- Sorry if i sound mean or cocky. I am just trying to help you bolster your own argument in the end and point out a couple inconsistencies. If you can still point out why this is actually sexist and nothing else and do it well then i will give way to your argument.

Again, this isn't because I'm looking for a show with a message. I hate that. And its not because I want to advance some politically correct agenda. Hate that too. At the end of the day, I want to be entertained, that is all. However, you really can't see the problem?

So imagine you and I are writers for the show, and I tell you I have an idea for a strong character to counter balance the whiney cheerleader we already have. And you say, fine, whats your idea for this strong female.

I say okay, check this. She will be military elite badass. But! Drop dead chesty sexy. We will enhance and make jokes about the sexy by stranding her with clothes that seem to showcase and magically enhance her natural assets. She'll have sex in a broom closets, giggle with gal pals about how cute guys are and she'll cry over a man!

Would you think I've done women a service, or should I be sent to sensitivity training? I don't know that sexism is the right word, but there is something not helpful to women being taken serious here going on.

Again, I feel the need to mention, this whole post goes against my nature, just looking to be entertained... looking for less waterworks. Hell, in a different context I might have found the above scenario funny, but in this show? Ugh. Especially when the writers? tried to claim they didn't intentionally showcase her boobage? Yeah sure, insult my intelligence a little bit more. mmmhmmm.

Like Elvis once said, little less conversation, little more action please. All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me.

[wargrafix]

It proves that whatever they decide to write, someone will always find a cause to complain. so what if she got big tits? Like they don't exist in real life?

If the writers went with a 'sex sells" approach, so what? V and Battlestar galactica (when they weren't shoving god down your throat) did the same thing.

[FallenAngelII]

Scott cried over his knocking up of Annie Balic back in Air.

Yes. This was because he was incredibly sad that he'd wrecked his own life. He was going to become a priest, he had a priest as an adoptive father/mentor, yet he disappointed both the priest and the church by not only having underage sex out of marriage but also conceiving a child out of wedlock, thus forcing her to have an abortion.

This is something major.

"My ex-hookup is mean to me and the guy I flirted with rejected me", etc. are not major things.

In my little opinion, James' little jag is a culmination of events: Back in the Air extended version, her talk with Young was a good precursor to this. Every strong person, woman or man, can have weaker moments.

Yes. And we've never seen a man cry on Stargate for anything but utmost sadness due to loss or something traumatic like wrecking your own life and the life of others. Not having a boyfriend, not that traumatic.

The battle ends soon after. She's alone in her quarters, and things are just too much. Why show her weaker moment in this episode, you ask?

No. I asked why she had to specifically cry. Why her specifically out of all the women on-board. And why show her crying and not simply being sad?

Was it necessary to show James at the end? Well, I believe all characters have dimensions, and that a big dimension is how they act in front of people. And we saw her other, not-in-front-of-people dimension during the song montage. So yeah, to me, it was cool and made us aware that she might be up there as a risky character to watch (Along with Spencer, who killed himself and Volker, who may snap in the future).

Then again, I liked the moment because I don't dissect everything and make it about sexism or racism.

The problem is that the Stargates have a pretty bad track record at portraying women. And in SGU we get James breaking down in tears over relatively minor things that usually don't make you bawl your eyes out... situations no Stargate male would be caught dead crying over.

It proves that whatever they decide to write, someone will always find a cause to complain. so what if she got big tits? Like they don't exist in real life?

If the writers went with a 'sex sells" approach, so what? V and Battlestar galactica (when they weren't shoving god down your throat) did the same thing.

Out of all of the much more important things we're discussing in this thread you choose to focus on her chest?

[Camasi]

Hello!

Man, false gods forgive me, can't believe I would willingly choose to defend what I think is a feminist point of view on this... or anything for that matter.

Again, this isn't because I'm looking for a show with a message. I hate that. And its not because I want to advance some politically correct agenda. Hate that too. At the end of the day, I want to be entertained, that is all. However, you really can't see the problem?

So imagine you and I are writers for the show, and I tell you I have an idea for a strong character to counter balance the whiney cheerleader we already have. And you say, fine, whats your idea for this strong female.

I say okay, check this. She will be military elite badass. But! Drop dead chesty sexy. We will enhance and make jokes about the sexy by stranding her with clothes that seem to showcase and magically enhance her natural assets. She'll have sex in a broom closets, giggle with gal pals about how cute guys are and she'll cry over a man!

Would you think I've done women a service, or should I be sent to sensitivity training? I don't know that sexism is the right word, but there is something not helpful to women being taken serious here going on.

Again, I feel the need to mention, this whole post goes against my nature, just looking to be entertained... looking for less waterworks. Hell, in a different context I might have found the above scenario funny, but in this show? Ugh. Especially when the writers? tried to claim they didn't intentionally showcase her boobage? Yeah sure, insult my intelligence a little bit more. mmmhmmm.

Like Elvis once said, little less conversation, little more action please. All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me.

Haha i hope i was not insulting your intelligence there! I was not intending to at all. I definitely do not doubt the writers were looking to portray the women in some sort of sexy way. This is the unfortunate reality of TV.. and these are tired ideas that they try to sell. I also was not trying to communicate that the writers were NOT intentionally showcasing her boobage. I would be extremely naive to say that. I was merely pointing out to the OP that pointing that attribute as a character description (when he/she described James as the one with the big boobs that kicks guys asses) and seemingly accepting it does not really help out her argument against sexism!

I still do not get why the sex in the broom closet thing is that big of a deal to so many people. This does happen ... a lot. In fact, i bet at this exact moment, there is a girl out there having sex in a broom closet. SHOCK! HORROR! . The fact that she was acting "girly" does not take away from her being this elite military badass. I think the writers would have done a greater disservice to themselves and people in general if they portrayed a military bad ass who displays no social aspects in their off time. This is definitely plausible. James most likely went to college (in fact she had to) in order to become an officer. I doubt that she has been a military bad ass a majority of her life. However i am going out there and making assumptions myself. I am just merely addressing to the original poster that yes, people in the military have bad days and can get upset too. They even (gasp!) CRY! It would be EXTREMELY naive to believe otherwise. Even bad ass military women get upset over a man, talk to their "gal pals" (she just seemed to be communicating to her friends), etc. You know how i know this? I have dated several of them! TRUST ME when i say they get upset and it is not always in the kick ass mode.

James is wearing standard air force issue clothing as well. Except for this whole tank top business... it would be naive of me to think that the director/writers did not think "oh this is sexy". However, it would be irrational of me to believe that she would not sleep in different clothes. I always question... when and where did the military personnel have the time to run and grab their extra set of clothes? .

However, Asgard Live, i see the point you are trying to make. I do not doubt that the people who did the casting for James were intentionally looking for someone who would show off sex appeal. (in fact.. running up to the show.. they were talking about how SGU would be young and sexy.) I also can see your point about them possibly doing women a great disservice, but in other aspects the very fact that she is an officer in the AF special forces is extremely surprising! So i have to agree/disagree with you in a couple aspects. I think we are on the same page though. I do not think that they are doing women a disservice, but i am not quick to say they are doing women a great service as well.

The OP keeps yapping on how it seems unlikely that James would cry and keeps on talking about how others should cry first. Don't you think TV shows try to surprise you every now and then and avoid standard formula whenever they can? I already described the psychological and social aspects of how it is very plausible she would cry... so there is a story related one.

[Camasi]

Out of all of the much more important things we're discussing in this thread you choose to focus on her chest?

You focused on that in your original post. You used it to describe the principle of her character. Just saying

[Captain Obvious]

I really think you are splitting hairs here.

You can be "tough as nails" and still have emotions. They are trying to show her as a normal, balanced human being. She is getting comfortable enough around the people she works/lives with (and whom she may spend the rest of her life around) that she can relax on her "off" time (since they were coming to Eli to complain about showers in a casual way it did not seem like a "Work" situation to me).

She is obviously frustrated because she is trapped on a ship, and she felt like she was not only going to die a million light years from home, but going to die alone. The scene was meant to show that even the most tough as nails army special forces Lt. is psychologically effected by the stress of the situation.

Honestly, it was subtle , well played and actually showed the acting chops of a minor character that had been previously referred to as "Lt. McBoobs" by people who assumed her physical attributes were how she landed the role. Obviously we have been show otherwise.

Yes. And we've never seen a man cry on Stargate for anything but utmost sadness due to loss or something traumatic like wrecking your own life and the life of others. Not having a boyfriend, not that traumatic.

You don't think the despair of being stranded and feeling lost and alone can't be as profound as missing someone who died? Newsflash, more people commit suicide because they are lonely in general than because someone they love died.

Honestly, why do you always look for something sexist/racist/homophobic in the show? It really seems like more of a perception issue than an issue with the way the show is actually written.

[wargrafix]

Why not? They have their own gravitational field. lol

Point is, the character has realized that the life she was used to is gone. She is witnessing bitter lonliness. Perhaps she wants a meaningful relationship rather than the other miss "one night stand".
The incident where she lured Eli proves she used sex, or the promise of it, to get what she wants shows she is aware of the talents. Unless she does something differently, that is the standard that she should be judged.

[FallenAngelII]

Stuff.

You ignored everything I said and made general sweeping statements instead.

You didn't even address my finer points. Why did it have to be James? Why did it have to be a woman at all and not a man? Why did she have to be crying instead of doing something else to show that she was sad and/or lonely?

[wargrafix]

^^^^

why not a woman? Why not having her crying?

[Mike.]

Why not. You'd be complaining if another character was used instead of her.

James = representative for the military, yet not a character burdened by the main plot.

Crying = the best way to show an audience sadness, something that would be easily understood, and can fit in a 1 second scene.