'Sabotage' (116) General Discussion

[Briangate78]

Hm. It says I cannot green you at the moment - an injustice most foul.

I get that a lot.

[jelgate]

It felt just right to me. Lets look at it from my perspective as a fellow mil member. Many a time we get hints and rumors (even truths to them), but until the higher ups actually give the briefing, some of us don't take it all in. That plus it helps to put into the mind of US, that there are so many lives there that young still has to care for.

That was not the point. Obviously Young would announce to the crew the fate of Scott, Eli, and Chloe. It was just unesscarry to show onscreen.

Sine when has carter done a lot with hyperdrives? if anything i would have said Mccay or Zelenka. BUT from what is said we know that Ms Perry is working on a new brand of hyperdrives... So that would place her above the other 2.

Since S6. And we really have no way of knowing that as Rush is the only one who said she was the best and his opinion is more then a little biased. Furthermore its hard to say who is better without putting them in a scene. That said we cand defiantly conclude Perry is good at what she does.

What i would like to know is if she IS such a hot shot with tech, how the heck can see do all the work she does in her condition? I can see it if she is just there for the theoretical/math proofs, but there is more to hyperdrive making than just that.

Probably more of the design phase of hyperdrives with engineers doing the actualy building

I am wondering if he is more linked to the ship than we thought he might be before. And if that explosion to him was like someone snapping a leg, a wake up call of immense proportions.

Maybe the explosion of the engine caused tramua for Destiny and caused Franklin and link to the chair to be severed.

the thing i didn't like about this is that we have seen from many other eps when enemies fire at stuff comin through the gate that their shots can come back, BUT there did not seem to be ANY concern that the blue alien's ships shots could come back through... I am wondering was this an oversight?

For most things the direction of the wormhole is one way. In that you can only travel from Destiny to that planet. People from that planet can't go to Destinty on that dial. That holds true for weapons fire as well

This is making me wonder if they now have a way to fully swap with someone on the ship.

Spoiler:

And whether they will use that to help them gate aboard in later eps..

Cont next post...

That would be increasingly difficult as we get farther and farther into the galactic void

I have to agree though Perry in the episode was much better that the Perry of the casting sides. Also Rush was better too. In the casting sides it looked like Rush didn't care about Perry using Camille's body for that stuff but in reality he turned it down. Im actually starting to like that guy.

Casting sides are always like that. They make the character more worse then they really are. I remember how bad the main cast slides were. Nothing like the characters we see now.

[kwlafayette]

There are some who think the blue aliens have never boarded Destiny before. I think this episode should tell those people how very, very wrong they have insisted on being. Clearly, the blue aliens have very detailed knowledge of Destiny's systems, its layout, and its vulnerabilities. Also, they have the ability to access systems that the human crew cannot.

Not impressed at all with the robot, or the whole idea that in 5 million years, this was the first major breakdown. A ship without the ability to repair itself would simply not be operational in any way after that length of time. It is like jumping a shark.

[yet]

I'm finding it hard to think of anythink i didn't like in this episode unlike the last 2.

If Franklin didn't ascend maby he accessed the beaming tech and went back to bed LOL

9/10

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I doubt we're meant to second guess him though. Seriously, if you go back and rewatch a few episodes, you can see some of the looks that Young gives Eli which to me always seemed to indicate he was at least aware that he was pushing Wallace extremely hard.

yes, and that's something that Young does make a point of saying aloud, that he's sorry for pushing him so hard

...So use the stones with the "so-called" wrong people that are on board Destiny and get Carter or McKay to help out. It would make for a great guest appearance.

I sincerely hope not. So far the writers have avoided that issue and I really hope that continues. Having someone stone aboard and be able to magically fix the Destiny with no seeming work to it at all other than shuffling some stuff around? I've been liking that SGU actually has to work for what they have, even showing people doing repairs and having to make things with their own hands when it comes to it. After everything the Destiny crew has been through, the 'victory' should be theirs, not a 'wrap it up magically at minute 42' ending.

...

However, there is one thing that still bothers me, and that is the exploitation of the host bodies (using the stones) for personal relationships. There is a real immorality to it that the writers have just decided to skip over.
...
.

this has been explained, in Kinosode 23, and also, in this specific episode where people had to stand up and volunteer to be in Amanda's body, given the circumstances. There is full consent given, so no exploitation is present.

Really enjoyable episode for me. Great character moments, plot, and action.

FUN Little Stuff:
-Brody made a still. Awesome.
-The return of the glasses. Nice little moment, and something I'd been looking forward too since they found them last ep.
-The little phzt! noise that went with the visual of the Blues small ships getting vaporized as Destiny went into FTL. Made me laugh.

MAIN PLOT STUFF:
-I liked the quiet Young moments at the beginning, with him choosing not to shave and also not finishing sentences. A good job of the writers showing us how he's feeling, instead of telling us.
-The whole Franklin plot in this episode was great and something I was not expecting at all.
-Wray earned mega points for staying in Perry's body. I don't think I could handle that for a day, let alone a whole month! And Ming-Na was really good, I loved how she changed her breathing. Nice little touch.
-James was really great this week. I'm glad they're giving the actress more to do because she is rocking this role. A really nice combination of toughness and vulnerability.
-I loved everything with Rush and Perry. It was a really beautiful relationship between two very damaged people. The guest actress was great, incredibly likable. And I'm loving the redemption Rush has been getting the last several episodes.

The preview for next week looked awesome.

I enjoyed the still too! Not only that it was there, which was awesome enough all by itself, but that we got to see him have to build it. That doesn't happen very often and it really shows how they are having to cope on Destiny. They can't just go out and get supplies, they have to do everything themselves, from scratch. The glasses was a nice touch, I agree, but there's a small feeling of 'I've been where you've been' and I'm wondering if that will come up again. Franklin was a complete surprise to me and yes, Wray surprised me as well. She may have been willing to do anything to be home, but she did it anyway and that took guts.

... Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc.
...The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.
...First, he's socially isolated.
...Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated.
...Third,... perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

...we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

you were my first green of the day! This was really well thought out, and dead on for points, I believe.

...

Also, I think it would be awesome to see a crazy/evil Eli.

I do love a good villain! I think we will likely see a far more willful Eli in any case.

....
How galling it must be, that even Rush has a special someone, despite his bitter personality and his moral failings, and Eli doesn't.

that's what I took from that as well, well said!

...What an absolute farce. ...

an absolute farce would be if, upon stepping through the gate they tripped over something on the floor and did a faceplant followed by a yowl of Jerry Lewis proportions, right in front of everyone.

...Perry was awesome(I loved the way she held her hands, like she doesn't know what to do with them)
... I'd have liked to see at least one of their ships latch on and board the Destiny, so a fire-fight would ensue. I'm not desperate for action, but it would have been nice. ...

I noticed that too, that she carried herself strangely, but then again, if you haven't used your hands since you were 9, what would you do with a grown woman's hands, especially if they weren't yours? (keep it clean, you know who I mean ...and that goes for me too ). I kept waiting for a firefight too, but I have the feeling that we haven't seen the end of it, if only because that's something this show seems to be good at, we're going to see the blues again, I think.

...
And as people pointed out already, guess what all that controversy was a no show, the ep dwelled on the issues surrounding relationships and the stones, but I think you'd have to reach to find anything controversial.

I think we'll see some reaching, my friend Manufactured outrage in 3...2...1...

...
...I am surprised it was a walking robot.. i thought it would hover like the kino's.
...It felt just right to me. Lets look at it from my perspective as a fellow mil member. Many a time we get hints and rumors (even truths to them), but until the higher ups actually give the briefing, some of us don't take it all in. That plus it helps to put into the mind of US, that there are so many lives there that young still has to care for.
....

I too had thought that it would hover around like the kinos so it was odd to see it crawling around. Neat though. I agree on Young;s speech. Sure there are people who know what's happened with Scott, Eli and Chloe but it';s like a game of telephone, where some people know something and before you know it, the situation is completely different and everyone knows something a little different. Getting out there and saying 'this is what happened' is great rumor control, but I think it was put in as a way to show how Young is shouldering that burden, and that while individuals on the crew can feel for this person or that person, Young bears the burden of all of them because he is responsible for all of them.

...
The Glasses hand over scene was the most touching aspect of that whole return of the trio to me. And i loved how it was Chloe who was the one to help diagnose Jame's issue.
....

I liked that too, that Chloe was the one to help with that and that she not only figured it out, but convinced James to come forward even though that must have been quite a difficult thing to admit.

[DJFavorite]

Overall, I felt the episode was good. I really enjoyed the Rush scenes. I've always liked Rush and to see last episode and this one actually show his 'human side' makes me like him even more.

The only issues I had with the episode was the return of the trio and James' blackout. The return of the trio was very anti-climatic and disappointed me. Also, James' blackout was very under emphasized. I thought they should have covered it a bit more instead of the 'filler' time they used to show the passage of time.

[reddevil18]

I noticed that too, that she carried herself strangely, but then again, if you haven't used your hands since you were 9, what would you do with a grown woman's hands, especially if they weren't yours? (keep it clean, you know who I mean ...and that goes for me too ). I kept waiting for a firefight too, but I have the feeling that we haven't seen the end of it, if only because that's something this show seems to be good at, we're going to see the blues again, I think.

Yeah, the way she carried herself really added a lot to the authenticity of it all. Overall, she was a great character. Very sweet. I hope we see more of her.
And don't worry, the thought of doing anything with a woman's hands never even crossed my mind.

Is the small grin still hiding in the shadows?

[Sp!der]

they did not just use Julian Plenti in this episode??? how do they know my music taste...incredible!
ok, so they made lost kinda worthless with this episode, it would have been nice to see them lost up until the seasons finale, but otherwise good episode! Liked rush actually this time. and what the frak happend to the guy in the chair whose name i always forget? cannot wait for the next episode, they really know how to end at the cliffhanger though.

[kymeric]

Good episode! This turned out to be nothing like those long threads where people aired out their rape fantasies at the start of the season said it would be, lmao.

Loved the space fight, things are always better when the blue aliens are around. I hope (and expect) that they can follow Destiny through the void. It was suprising when the Kino popped out of the gate and there were Blue ships there! I think theyre gonna be great as a series villian (I hope).

Not much to say on the crippled Wray scenes, they were well done. I like how the was holding her hands like she didnt know what to do with them.

Seems like the Blues have a better understanding of the stones than the humans do!

I wonder what happened to franklin, almost like he was the ship. Maybe it absorbed him and he will appear again as Destinys Avatar or something?

As far as Carter being the smartest person about hyperdrives, she is a field operative, not a lab tech. While she knows much, there are people whose entire lives are devoted to hyperdrives, and those whos whole lives are sheilds, etc. etc. Carter and Mckay arent going to be the bestest best, but that dosent detract from their abilities. Even Carter said that she helped design the Prometheus, not made it all by herself from scratch, lol.

I wonder how long itll take to cross the void? Even Daedalous took 3 weeks, and Pegasus is relatively close to the MW. Hope they finished that chess board, bet its gonna be boring.

I liked the return of the lost team, basically all they needed to get back was destiny to drop out of ftl while still in range, and it did. Lmao.

[aaobuttons]

I thought the Perry story slowed things down, and Rush has gotten a bit too soft too quick for my liking. I wish they would have focused more on James's blackouts and the sabotoge. The trio getting back was a bit anticlimactic, I wish they would have had maybe a scene or two with them settling in to the planet, or at least a Scott/Greer talk on the ship. Overall, it wasn't one of my favorites, but it could have been worse... like most of the first half of season 1.

[Stormtrooper]

Much to my surprise, I liked this episode. Scott, Eli and Chloe's return may have been a little too easy, but it makes sense when you come to think of it. Interestingly enough, the use of the stones was alright, or so I thought, and exposed Destiny to the alien sabotage through Lt. James. Basically, it's not safe to use the stones anymore, which is good.

Amanda Perry is a very likable character. I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap. Hope we get to see her again in the future.

At last the whole Franklin and the chair thing paid off. And wow, what happened to him? Did he undergo some sort of digital ascension like those Asuran rebels on SGA and now resides on the ship's computer?

So the aliens are still following Destiny, huh? How long have they been chasing the ship, and through how many galaxies?

Nice to see the repair bot operational. How many are there on the ship? It'd be cool to see Destiny slowly returning to its former glory as the show progresses due to the little bots.

8/10

[MattSilver 3k]

I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap.

Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?

[Blackhole]

Ok, I'm going to use this thread and not the rewatching thread just because I'm not sure you need two threads for the same thing. But the conversation about Eli got my mind working so I watched his scenes very closely.

The first thing I noticed was this, Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc. People are asking what his problem is when I think the better question is, how long will this phase last?

Here's what I think has happened. The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.

First, he's socially isolated. Yes, we know he does "hang" with groups of people. But I believe his place in each circle is suspect at best. He's an interloper in every group. He's not a scientist because he's not a civilian from the expedition and he's too close to Young. He's not military because, well one doesn't become military simply by association. These groups want him when they need him but not as a confidant when they don't. The only other person like this (that we know of at the moment anyway) is Chloe, and she's found someone.

Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated. Not in the sense that he's not having sex (although I'm sure that's there too) but in the sense that he's not really successful in finding interested women. At first I thought this was simply a Chloe thing, but it's really not. Yes... I think he does like Chloe. But he's tried to build a rapport with James (see Time) and in this episode it is painfully obvious at the end of his conversation with Amanda that he has seen something he likes in her as well, only to find out that she's in love with Rush. Yes, things are working so smoothly for Eli that he's inclined to find the transient person in Camille's body the most interesting woman in the world. It was almost shocking upon rewatch how Eli went from complete disinterest and defeat at "Math Boy" to interested, dismayed, and jealous. In fact, the most suggestive scene he's been involved in so far involved James because she needed something from him in Darkness.

Third, and this may be a dead issue now. But in Darkness, we get the impression that the rest of the crew is using him as an information source for command decisions. That means, perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

So here we are close to the end of the season and this theme of being needed but not wanted is hitting him like a freight train. I say he is a true "geek" charecter in the sense that before being a "geek" was cool, this is the kind of situation that often occurred. Geek wasn't chic, it was social awkwardness. And that left a lot of people with very deep emotional scars. After all, it becomes much harder to connect when the expectaction is that connection only means someone wants something. The good news is, most people transcend this phase. The bad news is, most people don't live in a fish bowl that prevents them from getting away to find perspective.

What I'm really curious about now, is where does his charecter go from this episode on. We're at disillusioned and angry. But this can easily progress towards "creepy misanthrope." The man needs a friend, and not one that thinks his math skills are neat or that he's good at listening to relationship problems. If he doesn't get one of those or possibly a sexual one, we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

Interesting Analysis

I don’t think in their scene Eli showed interest in Amanda. I think he was just surprised that anyone would find Rush desirable. Prior to Sabotage Rush has been cold, abrasive and unlikable. In this episode Rush was warm and approachable a nearly different character from the pre-Divided persona.

And you may be right that Eli isn’t part of any social groups yet. They evacuated on the same day he arrived at the Icarus base. He probably hasn’t had time to form friendships yet and his allegiance to Young’s side probably hasn’t helped matters. Now, I think the distinction in the two camps is disappearing and it won’t continue to affect his social interaction with the civilians.

Part of his social isolation may be his age. I think his character’s age is very early 20’s. He is probably suppose to be younger than most everyone else on board.

Part of his problem in finding girlfriends may be that is he is shy and inexperienced and a little immature. Part may be his genius. Intellectual women may find him intimidating although I think that is worse with very intelligent women than it is with men.

I suspect that in the not too distant future they will have an episode with him getting involved with another woman on the crew. If it happens it will be interesting how the writers handle the new character. Will they show them breaking up later or have her die in some crisis and have Eli go to pieces over it?

I think you are right that the novelty of their situation has worn off and the reality of it is a little disheartening. I think the positive aspect of his personality will assert itself and he won’t go all dark side on everyone.

[ufgator1977]

As far as Carter being the smartest person about hyperdrives, she is a field operative, not a lab tech. While she knows much, there are people whose entire lives are devoted to hyperdrives, and those whos whole lives are sheilds, etc. etc. Carter and Mckay arent going to be the bestest best, but that dosent detract from their abilities. Even Carter said that she helped design the Prometheus, not made it all by herself from scratch, lol.

I'm pretty sure Carter has a PhD in astrophysics and I certainly would consider her more than just a "field operative". She and McKay were both very adept at troubleshooting under less than optimal circumstances. I would bet Amanda has very little field experience and something that works well in the lab doesn't always translate to the field. Amanda was the right choice if for no other reason than Rush trusted her abilities. If I recall correctly, he indicated he had a number of people in mind but considered her the best.

[theta123]

Overall a great episode. The level overall goes up sligthly. I think SGU is in for a good run