'Life' (109) General Discussion

[Lord Hurin]

Sorry, but what i said is not a matter of opinion, stop tossing that word around.

He said in paraphrase:

"Youngs character arc may or may not be resolved, but when it does, it will be relevant to the plot."

Thats a circular self sustaining invalid argument.
Its an argument of such logical convolution that i cant even describe how spacetime bends around it into an abyss of aristotlean proportions.

Wtf are you saying here? Ok, for now there is no evidence either way on whether Young's relationship with his wife will be relevant. LOGIC (seeing as you seem to enjoy following it) says that the writers wouldn't be devoting so much time to this if it weren't going to be important. What, you think they like it so throw an Everett/ Emily scene in there for a wank? Why would they focus on this relationship so much if it's only destined to fizzle out like a fart in the wind?

Please, tell me what your view on this is.

I didnt face palm you.

No, but you did facepalm someone for refuting your "facts" and I don't know how many damn Picard pictures you've got

[AdamTM]

Wtf are you saying here? Ok, for now there is no evidence either way on whether Young's relationship with his wife will be relevant. LOGIC (seeing as you seem to enjoy following it) says that the writers wouldn't be devoting so much time to this if it weren't going to be important. What, you think they like it so throw an Everett/ Emily scene in there for a wank? Why would they focus on this relationship so much if it's only destined to fizzle out like a fart in the wind?

Please, tell me what your view on this is.

LOGIC doesnt say anything about what the writers think, you are, as well, speculating.
You reason based on inconclusive evidence, conjecture and supposition.
Therefore this is not a valid argument to use to describe the quality of the episode in question.

If you want to provide a coherent opinion, you need to stick to things that have happened and not what may or may not be.
Unless you can read peoples minds, or the writers tell you conclusively what they will do, your conjecture is completely irrelevant when discussing future events, as it, by definition, may or may not be.

Speculation can never be used as an argument.

[pjt]

Speculation can never be used as an argument.

Speculation or deduction?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Speculation or deduction?

Indeed hypothesising ideas can be very important for debates.

[EllieVee]

Then it's not realistic. Regardless of the fiction if a story is about character development that it's not about things happening then it's not a real story. I've observed people most of my life. What I've found is that there are very very few people that makes things happen. Have you ever heard of the 80 Percentile Rule? (Pareto's Principle, the 80-20 rule) If not do a little research.It's fascinating, but suffice to say 80 percent of us are bystandards. Things happen to us or we watch while things happen and the remaining 20 percent are instigators or responders or victims.

The truth is most people don't have the motivation to cause things to just happen. We walk through our lives feeling helpless, aimless as though there is no control at all. We get sick and we trust when we are told we will die. Some people don't trust that, they find another way.

On SGU, there is only one person of the 20 percentile on the show. Rush.
But is he a responder, victim or instigator?

And I'll point out that this is fiction not real life.

That is the greatest disadvantage of SGU. None of these characters will have a different story, they'll all have the same story to tell, everyone, from a slightly different perspective. That's why it ends up as character dissertation.

Your user name should be Nostradamus because nine episodes in I can't predict what's going to happen. Clearly, you can.

[EllieVee]

That’s probably because his approach to life is slightly less sane than the others He is still a very cool character though.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

Mind you, I think Young's approach to life is unraveling at a fast clip.

[AdamTM]

Speculation or deduction?

de·duc·tion (d-dkshn)

The process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows necessarily from the stated premises

If his conclusion would necessarily follow from his premise (The writers putting in the Young-arc for a reason), it would be valid, but it doesnt, as there is no conclusive evidence to assume his premise is true.

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)

A judgment, estimate, or opinion arrived at by guessing: conjecture, guess, guesswork, supposition, surmise. See opinion.

Nothing that is based on guessing can be used to support an argument.

[EllieVee]

Episode: a happening that is distinctive in a series of related events

I am watching because I am looking for the distinctive story in the series. I'm not looking for the saga.

*scratches head*

Weren't you complaining a few posts ago about the opposite?

[EllieVee]

That's a little early to say what will or won't for sure happen. When did Cally and Chief Tyrol get together? Like season 2? The payoff from that, as you just described it, didn't happen until the series finale hell, she was DEAD by then!

So, be patient. Something of extreme importance may yet come of Young and Emily's relationship.

Precisely like Babylon 5 and the story of Sinclair. He's all internal and angsty and mysterious but the pay-off for his character isn't until two seasons later when he's no longer a main character when we find out that he's Valen, at which point the audience went 'Oh, now I get it!'

[Lord Hurin]

LOGIC doesnt say anything about what the writers think, you are, as well, speculating.
You reason based on inconclusive evidence, conjecture and supposition.
Therefore this is not a valid argument to use to describe the quality of the episode in question.

If you want to provide a coherent opinion, you need to stick to things that have happened and not what may or may not be.
Unless you can read peoples minds, or the writers tell you conclusively what they will do, your conjecture is completely irrelevant when discussing future events, as it, by definition, may or may not be.

Speculation can never be used as an argument.

I never said I wasn't speculating. I'm also not sure why speculation shouldn't be allowed, or even encouraged in this thread. If all we did was discuss this episode on its own rather than how it may or may not affect the series as a whole, it would be pretty boring.

I'd just like to point out that since you ALSO can't read minds, my OPINION that they will make something out of this is just that; an opinion. It's valid until it's disproven, at which point it just becomes a pipe dream.

[AdamTM]

I never said I wasn't speculating. I'm also not sure why speculation shouldn't be allowed, or even encouraged in this thread. If all we did was discuss this episode on its own rather than how it may or may not affect the series as a whole, it would be pretty boring.

I'd just like to point out that since you ALSO can't read minds, my OPINION that they will make something out of this is just that; an opinion. It's valid until it's disproven, at which point it just becomes a pipe dream.

Youre still all missing the point.
Im not arguing that you cant speculate on future events in this thread, what i argue about is that you cant use the speculation as an argument supporting your own conclusion and present it as fact.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not an argument for or against the quality of the show. Any argument based on opinion is moot.

@EllieVee

can you please stop double-posting? you have 4 consecutive posts.

[Lord Hurin]

Youre still all missing the point.
Im not arguing that you cant speculate on future events in this thread, what i argue about is that you cant use the speculation as an argument supporting your own conclusion and present it as fact.

Ok, I was missing the point of the argument. Sort of. I don't think anyone was saying that their opinion should be held as gospel though.

Let me ask you something. Do YOU think the writers are just including Young's scenes with his wife out of self-gratification? I'm not asking anything here except your opinion on the matter, keep in mind.

[AdamTM]

Ok, I was missing the point of the argument. Sort of. I don't think anyone was saying that their opinion should be held as gospel though.

Let me ask you something. Do YOU think the writers are just including Young's scenes with his wife out of self-gratification? I'm not asking anything here except your opinion on the matter, keep in mind.

IMO, Youngs drama with Telford and his wife is a strategic move by the writers to include artificial drama to the show, appeasing the non-SF crowd and boosting ratings amongst the viewers that did not previously watch Stargate and/or found it campy and silly.

It is certainly not self-gratification on the writers part, i dont think they are inept or incompetent.

However i think they are not doing a good job keeping the flow in the show, i constantly catch myself skipping parts of an episode. My main concern right now in the series is pacing and lack of overarching story.

[EllieVee]

Youre still all missing the point.
Im not arguing that you cant speculate on future events in this thread, what i argue about is that you cant use the speculation as an argument supporting your own conclusion and present it as fact.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not an argument for or against the quality of the show. Any argument based on opinion is moot.

@EllieVee

can you please stop double-posting? you have 4 consecutive posts.

Are they the same post? If not, that's not double posting.

[Deevil]

Episode: a happening that is distinctive in a series of related events

I am watching because I am looking for the distinctive story in the series. I'm not looking for the saga.

And you claim to have watched Babylon 5 which was a saga. I am incredibly confused.

LOGIC doesnt say anything about what the writers think, you are, as well, speculating.
You reason based on inconclusive evidence, conjecture and supposition.
Therefore this is not a valid argument to use to describe the quality of the episode in question

If you want to provide a coherent opinion, you need to stick to things that have happened and not what may or may not be.
Unless you can read peoples minds, or the writers tell you conclusively what they will do, your conjecture is completely irrelevant when discussing future events, as it, by definition, may or may not be.

Speculation can never be used as an argument.

You don't get to decide what is valid for someone to argue. Impressions and the interprationas o the viewer are valid because they are part of enjoying and connecting to the show.

Even you in previous posts have discussed you opinion, not in relation to the episodes but to how you feel they are going to play out in the future.

I have frankly had it with being told by individuals how we can 'discuss' an episode - like there are checks and balances that we have to follow in order to present a valid argument. There isn't, this is a casual environment not an academic or political one.

Precisely like Babylon 5 and the story of Sinclair. He's all internal and angsty and mysterious but the pay-off for his character isn't until two seasons later when he's no longer a main character when we find out that he's Valen, at which point the audience went 'Oh, now I get it!'

Exactly, and that was far from being obvious.