'Life' (109) General Discussion

[natyanayaki]

Which makes for unpleasant confusion whilst viewing.

Exactly!

[Deevil]

In reality that happens, but she must have had some time alone, all I'm saying if it had been included it would have been more clear, and I wouldn't have found Chloe to be so bland. I want to like her, she's a young woman, a recent graduate of a University, wanting to find herself, I should be able to relate to her but I can't, not yet at least.

It's just a matter of different interpretations is all .

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that these are all my opinions, I didn't think that I have to repeatedly say over an over again that "I feel the writers are" or whatever. Having said that, I have read the same sentiment from other people in other forums, other threads, so I'm not the only one so I guess I'm not totally insane to think that. And, I do hope I'm wrong, I want the writers to pleasantly surprise me, it's why I'm sticking to the show.

And I didn't even suggest that you weren't sharing your opinions. I said you seem to be spending a lot of time assuming what the writers want you to 'feel' and not spending enough time just 'feeling'.

Have you ever heard of the bro's code, or whatever that is? It's generally considered a bad thing by males and females. Having said that, I agree with Saquist to a degree, I'd need to know more before I condemn people I care about. Again, that's me.

And that's fine... ut I can't think of 1 valid reason for a friend, and a good friend at that to jump into bed with your ex.

It's hard for me to think of an officer who sleeps with another officer "below" him as a good officer (regarding Young and Scott). Just protocol and all that.

Then, you could be hard pressed to find many good officers.

Agreed. My biggest problem with Telford, and many individuals on Earth is that they seem to be incapable of understanding that, when I find it so simple to grasp.

They are used to having the power, and the ability to exercise it.

They weren't part of the expedition crew, that's why we keep hearing they're the wrong people.

That's what I thought.

That's funny, because I would say that about 5 of the 9 primary cast members have gotten the majority of the attention, while the remaining primary cast members seem like they are on part with the secondary cast. I wish the writers would balance this more.

It's only 9 episodes in... give it times.

I think Scott would only obey the order for as long as a superior officer was on board to enforce it. I don't understand why people see Scott as such a model officer, a perfect, model officer, who always follows orders, wouldn't sleep with an officer, of lower rank, who is under his command. 2nd Lt. James is the woman Scott was boinking in the closet when we first met Scott.

I don't think James was ever in his direct line of command until now. And I have to say sex in the closet doesn't = a bad officer.

[natyanayaki]

And I didn't even suggest that you weren't sharing your opinions. I said you seem to be spending a lot of time assuming what the writers want you to 'feel' and not spending enough time just 'feeling'.

As I said before, I was explaining what I thought the writers wanted to portray vs what is portrayed. And if it doesn't suit you, well I can't help it, it's my time, my right to chose how to spend it.

It's only 9 episodes in... give it times.

9 episodes IMO is quite a bit of time to focus on a select few.

I don't think James was ever in his direct line of command until now. And I have to say sex in the closet doesn't = a bad officer.

They were assigned on the same base, and he's a higher ranking officer, he has some authority over her whether or not he was directly over her command. And I didn't say it made him a bad officer, but it does show that he doesn't follow the rules, the protocol word by word, and I was referring to posts that implied Scott would follow the rules. I was explaining that we only know that he would follow the rules until he was no longer in danger of punishment.

[Deevil]

As I said before, I was explaining what I thought the writers wanted to portray vs what is portrayed. And if it doesn't suit you, well I can't help it, it's my time, my right to chose how to spend it.

And of course you can do that. I also didn't suggest otherwise. C'mon mate, the point is you don't know what the writers intended us to feel about the characters - because the acting and the direction tell another story all together... and if they were too off TPTB would have stepped in.

But have at the speculation. I just would rather not assume what the writers were intending especialle when they are writing ofr Carlyle, who makes the unlikable likable and personable all the time.

9 episodes IMO is quite a bit of time to focus on a select few.

A select few? Mate, a lot more then a few characters have been explored.

They were assigned on the same base, and he's a higher ranking officer, he has some authority over her whether or not he was directly over her command. And I didn't say it made him a bad officer, but it does show that he doesn't follow the rules, the protocol word by word, and I was referring to posts that implied Scott would follow the rules. I was explaining that we only know that he would follow the rules until he was no longer in danger of punishment.

Scott is a rule follower when there is someone to look over his shoulder and make sure it gets done. Otherwise I think he'll do what he wants.

[natyanayaki]

the point is you don't know what the writers intended us to feel about the characters - because the acting and the direction tell another story all together... and if they were too off TPTB would have stepped in.

You're right I don't know anything, I only suggested what I thought was the message the writers were attempting to convey. I think it's always interesting to speculate the writers intentions whether discussing a show, film or novel. And you're point that the writers chose Carlyle to make the unlikable likable actually fits my reasoning, and is a huge reason I see a discrepancy, other than one initial selfish act, I see no reason to dislike Rush. So I don't understand why Rush would be an unlikable character who needs to be made likable. That was my point all along. Either Carlyle is doing too good of a job, or the unlikable characteristics haven't been given enough attention by the writers.

A select few? Mate, a lot more then a few characters have been explored.

Explored, maybe. I'm discussing focus. Young, Scott, Chloe, Eli and recently Wray have been the character who have garnered the most consistent attention. We've had some vague hints regarding Rush, Greer and TJ, and really nothing on Telford except that he's jealous of Young. 9 episodes in, for an ensemble cast, I'd like to learn more about Rush, Greer, TJ, and Telford (grudgingly since I don't like the Earth focus). The show hasn't been balanced.

Scott is a rule follower when there is someone to look over his shoulder and make sure it gets done. Otherwise I think he'll do what he wants.

And that was my point all along. Someone claimed that if Young was replaced by Scott, he would follow Earth's orders because he was a rule follower. My claim was that, he'd only follow it for as long as someone from Earth had swapped in, but because of his loyalty to Young, as soon as the Earth person swapped out, he'd again defer to Young. The example of him having an affair with a lower ranking officer, was one example of him not following the rules.

[Deevil]

Either Carlyle is doing too good of a job, or the unlikable characteristics haven't been given enough attention by the writers.

It is fun to try and figure out what the writers are trying to convey... but it's important to remember that doesn't change what they have conveyed .

And seriously, I think they have written Rush perfectly, and hat includes his unlikable traits (and there are a lot of them). I think they have written the perfect character for Carlyle, because he isn't instantly likable because he is untrustworthy.

Carlyle is just exceptionally good at his job.

EWe've had some vague hints regarding Rush, Greer and TJ, and really nothing on Telford except that he's jealous of Young. 9 episodes in, for an ensemble cast, I'd like to learn more about Rush, Greer, TJ, and Telford (grudgingly since I don't like the Earth focus). The show hasn't been balanced.

And I say again, we are only 9 episodes in. We cannot have focus on every character in that time. There is nothing wrong with prolonging a little mystery. The show hasn't been unbalanced at all...

My claim was that, he'd only follow it for as long as someone from Earth had swapped in, but because of his loyalty to Young, as soon as the Earth person swapped out, he'd again defer to Young. The example of him having an affair with a lower ranking officer, was one example of him not following the rules.

I agree with you, mostly. I just don't think him having sex on Icarus has anything to do with him not following orders.

[Yusagi]

I agree with you, mostly. I just don't think him having sex on Icarus has anything to do with him not following orders.

I think it's a general rule of thumb thing: If the officer doesn't pay attention to regs in one area, they're less likely to pay attention to them in another, fitting similar circumstances s to why they didn't.

[natyanayaki]

It is fun to try and figure out what the writers are trying to convey... but it's important to remember that doesn't change what they have conveyed

Right, but like, I said, I’m currently confused about what was conveyed about Rush, and since I like Carlyle, and since I don’t skip Rush-related scenes, I’m simply trying to figure out why that is, and for now all I can figure is that they may be a discrepancy between writing and director/actor, or director/actor and the editing room? I also wonder, could there be a reason we're perceiving this discrepancy? I mean, the writers could have done it on purpose as well, and I like to explore all that.

There is nothing wrong with prolonging a little mystery. The show hasn't been unbalanced at all...

They could give more balanced attention/screen-time/focus and still prolong mystery. 9 primary characters, 9 episodes, but 5 of them have garnered the most attention. Also, I should mention, the majority of characters who have garnered most of the focus, are the characters I dislike the most up to this point.

I just don't think him having sex on Icarus has anything to do with him not following orders.

Hehe, and I think it does. It’s against the rules, James could file a sexual harassment claim (or whatever the proper terminology is) against him. Maybe Scott wasn’t too worried because he knows about TJ and Young, I don’t know. But it’s against protocol. In situations, when 2 soldiers are romantically involved, they’re not allowed to be assigned to the same base when on duty.

I think it's a general rule of thumb thing: If the officer doesn't pay attention to regs in one area, they're less likely to pay attention to them in another, fitting similar circumstances s to why they didn't.

Pretty much, hehe.

[Deevil]

I think it's a general rule of thumb thing: If the officer doesn't pay attention to regs in one area, they're less likely to pay attention to them in another, fitting similar circumstances s to why they didn't.

I get that point, but I also think there is a disconnect. It's kind of like saying, just because someone stole a back of chewing gum, they are more likely to embezzell millions of dollars.

Right, but like, I said, I’m currently confused about what was conveyed about Rush, and since I like Carlyle, and since I don’t skip Rush-related scenes, I’m simply trying to figure out why that is, and for now all I can figure is that they may be a discrepancy between writing and director/actor, or director/actor and the editing room. ?

Except, I am not seeing the disconnect that you are. I think his character is well focused, and right on point in all places.

They could give more balanced attention/screen-time/focus and still prolong mystery. 9 primary characters, 9 episodes, but 5 of them have garnered the most attention. Also, I should mention, the majority of characters who have garnered most of the focus, are the characters I dislike the most up to this point.

And, I say again... in 9 episodes there is no reason why we should know all the characters incredibly well. The fact that we don't know them yet doesn't make for an unbalanced show, it just means we don't know them yet.

As for not liking the characters which you do know well, I can understand that. I'm not necessarily in love with all of them, but they tend to interest me.

Hehe, and I think it does. It’s against the rules, James could file a sexual harassment claim (or whatever the proper terminology is) against him.

I wish James luck with that, but it's a little dificult being so far from home.

Maybe Scott wasn’t too worried because he knows about TJ and Young, I don’t know. But it’s against protocol. In situations, when 2 soldiers are romantically involved, they’re not allowed to be assigned to the same base when on duty.

Sure they're allowed to be on the same base on duty, that happens a whole hell of a lot. They are just not allowed to be in the same direct command. For example, one can be in infantry the other in engineering.

There are married couples who live, and work, on the same base.

[natyanayaki]

I wish James luck with that, but it's a little dificult being so far from home.

Like I said, she could and would have some ground to stand on, I didn't say anything about immediate enforcement of anything.

I think there's a reason Scott has apparently tried to keep it hidden.

[PG15]

The writers have stated from the beginning that there will be very few clear heroes and villians. Rush is the perfect example of that. You're not getting a good reading on him because you're not supposed to, just like you can't really get a good reading of someone in real life unless you hang around them for days or weeks on end, constantly.

And even then, you might be surprised.

I doubt there is a disconnect between writers and actor; if there were, it wouldn't persist for 9+ episodes; it'd be recognized right away and it'd be changed.

[natyanayaki]

I doubt there is a disconnect between writers and actor; if there were, it wouldn't persist for 9+ episodes; it'd be recognized right away and it'd be changed.

Unless for some reason the disconnect is supposed to be there. The writers could be doing this on purpose to get a specific type of reaction from him later. Which is why I'm interested in exploring this possibility .

[PG15]

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same "disconnect" here.

If Robert Carlyle is doing something that the writers didn't mean him to do (i.e. a disconnect between the writers' intent and RC's intent), then I very much doubt it'd last this long. In fact, we'd probably never see it, as the director and writers would've fixed it before the show ever premiered.

If the writers are conveying mixed messages on purpose, then that's not a disconnect between a writer and the actor. It's the writers trying to keep their audience on their toes and not have the character fit so neatly into "good guys" and "bad guys".

Which is Awesome.

[Deevil]

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same "disconnect" here.

If Robert Carlyle is doing something that the writers didn't mean him to do (i.e. a disconnect between the writers' intent and RC's intent), then I very much doubt it'd last this long. In fact, we'd probably never see it, as the director and writers would've fixed it before the show ever premiered.

If the writers are conveying mixed messages on purpose, then that's not a disconnect between a writer and the actor. It's the writers trying to keep their audience on their toes and not have the character fit so neatly into "good guys" and "bad guys".

Which is Awesome.

A whole world of THIS!

[natyanayaki]

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same "disconnect" here.

If Robert Carlyle is doing something that the writers didn't mean him to do (i.e. a disconnect between the writers' intent and RC's intent), then I very much doubt it'd last this long. In fact, we'd probably never see it, as the director and writers would've fixed it before the show ever premiered.

If the writers are conveying mixed messages on purpose, then that's not a disconnect between a writer and the actor. It's the writers trying to keep their audience on their toes and not have the character fit so neatly into "good guys" and "bad guys".

Which is Awesome.

And I just don't know which it is, but I do find there is a discrepancy, and based on what I've read on this board, as well as others, I don't think I know which it is. Of course, I'm hoping it's the 2nd option; however, there's also the option, that after the first half of the season or whatever, based on Carlyle's performance, they decided themselves to change aspects of the characters, if so, it might not be possible to remove the current disconnect, but it might not be there in future episodes.