how's Eli going to cope

[Blackhole]

Again, glad to know I presented an argument that helped you reassess your opinion of Rush as a character.

I hate to see the bickering. I personally think your arguments are typically well put together, at least the debates you and I have had. Argument wouldn't be the word to use, really. Debate. Much healthier, much more productive, and much more intellectually satisfying.

As far as Rush's speculation when giving his testimony, I think that, providing everything we're led to believe about what occurred in this episode is exactly what it appears to be, then he most certainly did make that clever comment to try and deflect any suspicion that there might be on him, and at the same time to manipulate those who heard him into at least thinking about the phrases he used.

Thank you for you gracious comments.

[Blackhole]

Blackhole, I have previously posted on utilitarianism and what I got from you was extremely unpleasant, as are most of your posts in response to me. In fact, you have been extremely unpleasant since I started posting in defence of Rush, whether I present a well developed argument or not. So in response to your posts, I cannot be bothered given your responses are the same. Your response is disingenuous to say the least.

You may have posted on utilitarianism on the board but you haven’t from my recollection explained it directly to me in a reply post in any detail on any occasion I can remember. Daro did and the reasoning of his debate made sense that is why I adopted it. I would even venture to say without reviewing every post between us that you have never replied with any significant counter debate to any difference in interpretation I have ever directed at you. If you want to deign making counter replies go ahead; but slinging unfounded terms like – “rude”, “dislike”, "vitriol" and now “extremely unpleasant and disingenuous” is hiding their weak or absent reasoning behind insults and ad hominem attacks. I agree with Daro and don’t like bickering either. It is pointless to continue to debate with you as you are always going to cry foul and play the poor misunderstood persecuted victim regardless of any cogent reasoning of mine to the contrary. I have had my say and to avoid any future unpleasantness for everyone I will not waste any more time replying to your posts.

[EllieVee]

This is not an ad hominem attack. This is my view as to how you approach anything I post. I feel constantly under attack for defending Rush and in particular, from you. I have placed reasoned arguments in threads and you have either ignored them or have just belittled everything by saying that I'm not placing reasoned arguments. It's constantly wearing and it's increasingly ugly. Even your post above contains an attack on me. Please stop.

[Girlbot]

I feel that Eli has coped much better with this situation, then many of the others who have been familiar with the Stargate program for years. He has been quite adaptable and continues to keep a sense of humor, even though many may not feel that is a positive quality, I do think it is.
Until this point in his life he has taken the easy way out of things and not really applied himself to important matters. But he solved the puzzle in the game, and now that he has some control over his situation ie: Rush's absence, I think he will look at this as a puzzle to be solved and apply himself to it. Rush, although accepting that Eli has skills, always kept him and everyone else in that scientific team a bit intimidated.
Eli, if written well, should be quite a capable and compelling character in the future. IMO

[Blackhole]

I feel that Eli has coped much better with this situation, then many of the others who have been familiar with the Stargate program for years. He has been quite adaptable and continues to keep a sense of humor, even though many may not feel that is a positive quality, I do think it is.
Until this point in his life he has taken the easy way out of things and not really applied himself to important matters. But he solved the puzzle in the game, and now that he has some control over his situation ie: Rush's absence, I think he will look at this as a puzzle to be solved and apply himself to it. Rush, although accepting that Eli has skills, always kept him and everyone else in that scientific team a bit intimidated.
Eli, if written well, should be quite a capable and compelling character in the future. IMO

I agree 100% with everything you have said. Being as positive as Eli has been in circumstances as bad as they are for everyone is a real testament to his character. I think Eli recognizes that he may be involved with one of the greatest discoveries mankind has made since finding the Stargate. He now has a chance to make a real difference; it has helped him find focus and direction in his life. It would be interesting to see how they developed Eli’s character if Rush is absent for a number of episodes. Carlyle is the top billed actor for SGU; Imo I doubt he will be gone long enough from the Destiny for that scenario to develop. To do so, the writers would have to introduce a separate and simultaneous ongoing story arc to portray him in during his absence. I don't think they will want to do that. I speculate he will return right away to the Destiny.

[Captain Obvious]

I find rather stunning calling Eli, a 30 year old man, a kid. You are making to look that he is helpless and can't survive on his own....

the actor is 30, the character is 25. Jamil Walker-Smith is only 27, but the character he plays (Greer) will most likely be listed as 30+ years old because of his rank.

[garhkal]

Also, many adults in their late 30s and 40s call people in their mid 20s kid..

[morrismike]

Also, many adults in their late 30s and 40s call people in their mid 20s kid..

obviously you are not in your 30s or 40s

[TheRandomOne]

Eli will survive but I will not like any character if any of them have any trust for Young when Rush comes back. If Scott & the Military personnel still have their hard on for Young after telling such a big lie they all will suck. I don't really care for most characters but if Young gets an Get Out Of Jail Free pass for this lie then I will pretty much hate anyone who gives him it

[Daro]

Eli will survive but I will not like any character if any of them have any trust for Young when Rush comes back. If Scott & the Military personnel still have their hard on for Young after telling such a big lie they all will suck. I don't really care for most characters but if Young gets an Get Out Of Jail Free pass for this lie then I will pretty much hate anyone who gives him it

As much as I too want to see Young suffer the consequences of his actions regarding Rush, I'd encourage you to keep an open mind. Eli knows, for a fact, that both Rush and Young will lie to get what they want. What they want may be something that benefits the crew, in their eyes. If Young believed killing one man would benefit the eighty other people aboard the ship, then it's very comparable to Rush believing that the lives of eighty people are worth it if mankind can move closer to ascension. They aren't that different.

The only major moral difference I see so far is that Rush, while deceptive at times, was not so wicked as to try to frame Young well enough to ensure he'd be imprisoned. He was not willing to find a way to kill Young. He has not shown a willingness to kill anyone directly. Asking someone to sacrifice themselves in "Air" is understandable; he couldn't do it himself, he's too valuable to the crew as lead scientist.

Eli isn't privy to all this stuff, though. I think he's a little lost, and disillusioned with Young. I think he realizes now that he backed the wrong team. I have faith in him as a character with an innate sense of right and wrong to try and correct his mistake, and find balance between his mentor and the colonel.

Of course, we'll have to wait until Rush gets back. It may be that the lie doesn't become public; Rush and Young may come to an understanding. To tell the crew what happened, Rush would have to admit his part in framing Young. The truth would discredit both of them as leaders, so they'll probably have some form of a truce. For a while.

[UniverseSizePlotHole]

Maybe Eli will cope by reading.

Probably an autobiography I'd say.

[Blackhole]

As much as I too want to see Young suffer the consequences of his actions regarding Rush, I'd encourage you to keep an open mind. Eli knows, for a fact, that both Rush and Young will lie to get what they want. What they want may be something that benefits the crew, in their eyes. If Young believed killing one man would benefit the eighty other people aboard the ship, then it's very comparable to Rush believing that the lives of eighty people are worth it if mankind can move closer to ascension. They aren't that different.

The only major moral difference I see so far is that Rush, while deceptive at times, was not so wicked as to try to frame Young well enough to ensure he'd be imprisoned. He was not willing to find a way to kill Young. He has not shown a willingness to kill anyone directly. Asking someone to sacrifice themselves in "Air" is understandable; he couldn't do it himself, he's too valuable to the crew as lead scientist.

Eli isn't privy to all this stuff, though. I think he's a little lost, and disillusioned with Young. I think he realizes now that he backed the wrong team. I have faith in him as a character with an innate sense of right and wrong to try and correct his mistake, and find balance between his mentor and the colonel.

Of course, we'll have to wait until Rush gets back. It may be that the lie doesn't become public; Rush and Young may come to an understanding. To tell the crew what happened, Rush would have to admit his part in framing Young. The truth would discredit both of them as leaders, so they'll probably have some form of a truce. For a while.

It would be a great scene if Rush and Young have a direct conversation and reach some form of agreement or if Eli and Rush do and discuss loyalties. I suspect that Rush and Young will continue as if the incident never happened. Eli is the most fair minded of the group. He certainly is going to realize that both parties did a major wrong. I also think he is smart enough to understand if the information became general knowledge that it could lead to crew fractionalization and be disastrous for everyone. I doubt Eli would want Wray or Rush to take command. I think he is pragmatic enough to realize that while Young’s action towards Rush may have been too drastic, it was still only aimed at Rush. Rush deserved to be disciplined but not necessarily to the extent he was. And if Rush returns relatively unscathed which is likely, then ‘no harm no foul’. Eli also knows Young maintains the loyalty of the military contingent and despite his action towards Rush, I think he would still support Young as the best man for the job, as do I.

[Daro]

It would be a great scene if Rush and Young have a direct conversation and reach some form of agreement or if Eli and Rush do and discuss loyalties. I suspect that Rush and Young will continue as if the incident never happened. Eli is the most fair minded of the group. He certainly is going to realize that both parties did a major wrong. I also think he is smart enough to understand if the information became general knowledge that it could lead to crew fractionalization and be disastrous for everyone. I doubt Eli would want Wray or Rush to take command. I think he is pragmatic enough to realize that while Young’s action towards Rush may have been too drastic, it was still only aimed at Rush. Rush deserved to be disciplined but not necessarily to the extend he was. And if Rush returns relatively unscathed which is likely, then ‘no harm no foul’. Eli also knows Young maintains the loyalty of the military contingent and despite his action towards Rush, I think he would still support Young as the best man for the job, as do I.

I imagine Rush and Young will have some sort of conversation when Rush gets back. And I imagine it'll be wonderful to watch.

If things go back to normal, then I can see Eli continuing to support Young. For the reasons you cited. If Eli didn't ever find out what happened on that desert planet, he'd only have suspicion. I don't think he'll ever completely trust Young (and he certainly would be a fool to trust Rush.)

If Eli and Rush end up having a conversation, and Rush tells him what happened, Eli will struggle with whether or not to believe him. After all, in Eli's eyes, Rush lied and framed the colonel. But it'd feed into his suspicions of Young that I think were clear by the end of "Justice."

I don't think Young alone needs to be the leader. I don't think Rush should be either. Finding out what really is going on between Rush and Young might be the final kick in the pants that Eli needs to start taking some initiative. The conflict boils down to the civilians and scientists v. military dictatorship (benevolent or not.)

Eli himself is not a leader, but it's important to anyone who would want to lead that they have Eli on their side.
I honestly will have to wait and see which side he backs, or if he helps create a new 'third party.'

[Blackhole]

I imagine Rush and Young will have some sort of conversation when Rush gets back. And I imagine it'll be wonderful to watch.

If things go back to normal, then I can see Eli continuing to support Young. For the reasons you cited. If Eli didn't ever find out what happened on that desert planet, he'd only have suspicion. I don't think he'll ever completely trust Young (and he certainly would be a fool to trust Rush.)

If Eli and Rush end up having a conversation, and Rush tells him what happened, Eli will struggle with whether or not to believe him. After all, in Eli's eyes, Rush lied and framed the colonel. But it'd feed into his suspicions of Young that I think were clear by the end of "Justice."

I don't think Young alone needs to be the leader. I don't think Rush should be either. Finding out what really is going on between Rush and Young might be the final kick in the pants that Eli needs to start taking some initiative. The conflict boils down to the civilians and scientists v. military dictatorship (benevolent or not.)

Eli himself is not a leader, but it's important to anyone who would want to lead that they have Eli on their side.
I honestly will have to wait and see which side he backs, or if he helps create a new 'third party.'

I agree 100% with everything you have said. I think Eli will always suspect that Young lied about what happened on the desert planet and that he will probably be forever tarnished in his eyes. In subsequent seasons if a third party plot line is developed that presents a better command structure alternative then Eli will be much more inclined to support it over Young.

[The Swarm]

Wont the third party be the

Spoiler:

Lucian Alliance incursionists that also get stranded along with the Icarus refugees at the end of season 1?