'Incursion, Part 2' (120) General Discussion

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Yeesh - how many people are just watching the show and enjoying the show and that's all? They're not constantly comparing it to the former shows, constantly nitpicking... I'm starting to think I'm the only damn one.

No, you're not the only one

I don't even know what to say, except that the final scene, of the SG military personnel going down on their knees, presumably to be executed, with Young standing there, was really powerful and I can't freakin' believe I have to wait until October for the rest.

That really ripped at me too; it was a very powerful moment. Young, watching those lights....when those lights go out, I think the tables are going to turn

I'm not even going to bother comparing this to any other SG's. SGU stands alone. It has a different feel to it (more dramatic, I think - personal opinion). This was an awesome season and an amazing season finale. The cliffhangers are going to drive me insane. October can't come fast enough! I'm going to have to find something else to distract myself until then....not going to be easy. Any suggestions? I've seen ALL of SG-1 (including all the movies) and I'm working on seasons 4-5 of SGA. Need.....MOAR!!!

we're all going to be here going more insane with every passing day until it's back on the air! I'm thinking a rewatch....

Why couldn't he? Do we have to bring up the numerous historical examples of military leaders in senior positions or in charge of elite units who have screwed up immensely?

....
Oh and I hope that broken look on Young' face mans he's about to go ax crazy on everyone.

yes, military history os full of mistakes made, sometimes just one small thing and boom! I do think that Young is about to go nuts, he's just waiting for those lights to go off.

So yes screwing up terribly and having no plans happens all the time.

Young had a single choice to make, it wasn't a series of choices which left him in a vulnerable position as the above three are.

even the military situations you've both mentioned have not broken down to a single event alone. One thing plays off the next, one choice leads to the next. It's a domino effect, where one mistake can lead to three. Everybody makes mistakes. It doesn't mean it's game over and I do mean that like a video game. You don't simply get to restart at the beginning of the level and make the right choice. Young doesn't get to go back, he has to work with what's on the ground at the moment. If it was history we were talking about, it would only be considered a mistake if he lost, and he hasn't lost yet.

The actual operators couldn't decide on a curse of action themselves during eagle claw. ....

You ask previously how did Young become a Colonel? Because at one point he could make those hard choices, but people change, and not everyone can stomach making those hard choices each day. Young is more than likely a PTSD suffererer, he has vivid memories of traumatic events, such as the attack on base by the LA as mentioned in Subversion, he has persistent avoidance to the idea that he will lose any more people, it his berserk button, he can't face it. On top of this he has significant problems with anger. Combat often changes in people and it has not left Young in a good mental state.

Further PTSD is often difficult to diagnose, people in the military are often unwilling to admit they have a problem, for fear of appearing weak or losing their position. Young's been affected further by having been thrust into a situation where he was unprepared and has had several months of intense pressure. People crack under that kind of strain.

Curse of action----sorry
I believe you raise an excellent point about Young's makeup and his more than likely PTSD and it's a good thing to keep in mind before judging the man's actions all that harshly

[JustAnotherVoice]

Not counting his return because fandom petitioned to get him back, but Carson in Sunday. Was a true death of a main character. It was a ratings ploy to get him back. and it worked. Kindred pt 2 episode 419 pulled in over 1.7 Million viewers live, and over 2.2 Million after all DVR.

Hmm. I totally forgot about Carson. Appearing in so many episodes after his "death", I guess Sunday wasn't as memorable (in the long term) as it was moving (at the time).

[EvilSpaceAlien]

You need to rewatch some classic Stargate. You really think this episode tops "Lost City" Wow.

Damn, I forgot about that episode. But that still makes Incursion the best season finale since Lost City.

[jelgate]

Do we know if those suits will help out anyway? But i wonder if the ship will jump into FTL and they are still outside, if the ship will vape them like it did to those Blue alien fighters.

Its a possibilty the space suits double as radiation suits but every radiation suits have their limitis. You pump enough gamma radiaiton and those suits will break exposing Greer and Scott to some harmful stuff

You need to rewatch some classic Stargate. You really think this episode tops "Lost City" Wow.

As far ending goes I say yes. The only one in danger in Lost City was O'Neill. Incursion had more jaw dropping moments. But comparing Lost City part II to Incursion II, Lost City defiantly wins

[TheShrike]

Jelgate's Two Cents

We have a Lucian Alliance soldier shoot up the room leaving TJ for dead.

A US soldier was shooting up the room leaving TJ for dead.
Varro just pulled a gun and killed the soldier.

[JustAnotherVoice]

Just be thankful that SGU S2 is already in the pipeline. Too many shows end on cliffhangers these days, thanks to fickle TV networks who rely on dated technology to track who watches what.

[Briangate78]

Hmm. I totally forgot about Carson. Appearing in so many episodes after his "death", I guess Sunday wasn't as memorable (in the long term) as it was moving (at the time).

Blame the fans and SyFy for that one.

[Briangate78]

Its a possibilty the space suits double as radiation suits but every radiation suits have their limitis. You pump enough gamma radiaiton and those suits will break exposing Greer and Scott to some harmful stuff

As far ending goes I say yes. The only one in danger in Lost City was O'Neill. Incursion had more jaw dropping moments. But comparing Lost City part II to Incursion II, Lost City defiantly wins

Well grasshopper there is a major difference also. Lost City was not a cliffhanger, it was supposed to be a series finale. You should thank me, giving the benefit of the doubt to SGU.

[jelgate]

Well grasshopper there is a major difference also. Lost City was not a cliffhanger, it was supposed to be a series finale. You should thank me, giving the benefit of the doubt to SGU.

Your not speaking to some kind of ameature here like ESA. I know Lost City for a long time was going to be a series finale. But the ending was written that way for at the time the proposed SG1 movie

[jelgate]

They'll be fine. We have on Greer on our side. Yes I hate cliffhangers because of the suspense but its the nature of TV to get people wanting more

[jelgate]

I guess ultimately you're right in that we do know that the character in jeporady are going to survive. The main ones always do. But thats just TV. You can pretty much say any season finale will do that. I'm interested to see how they survive. Now thats where I determine predicitablity. For instance we could say its predictable that Rush knew how to fix the pulsar problem. I say its more the way Rush fixes it. Collapsing part of the shield never crossed my mind

[Ictus75]

I have to agree that Col. Young probably suffers from PTSD. While he shows flashes of true leadership, he tends to hesitate, or second guess himself in a crisis. He hesitated to vent the gate room because of Rush/Telford, and the LA got the upper hand on him, opening the doors. Also, don't forget that he started the season with severe head trauma from when he came flying through the gate. Perhaps that has affected him long term. I think he's a great character, the broken leader.

One thing I really like about SGU over SG1 & SGA is that all the main characters are flawed in some way. It reminds me of the X-men - heroes, but all are flawed and suffer because of it. None of the SG1 or SGA characters carried around past baggage, or at least to the extent that the SGU characters do.

Now if Telford survives, it will be interesting to see who is the senior officer on board, Telford or Young? I'm also hoping that people who are shot or injured will carry the affects of these injuries with them into season 2 (what if Telford survives, but is paralyzed? What if TJ becomes reclusive and angry?) I'd hate to be 2 episodes in and everyone is fine and healthy. I'd find it much more interesting if people suffered lasting physical and/or mental trauma from the encounter with the LA. They did a good job with that on Col. Young, with him on crutches and in pain for the first half of season one.

This was a great season finale, perhaps the best of all the Star Gate series.

[Kaiphantom]

Looks like I am going to be in the minority again...

Too many things about this episode keep me from giving it a thumbs up. Yes, parts of it were interesting or even exciting, but so much just seems too contrived. Waaaay too contrived.

For example, that Kiva and Telford would be so perfect of shots that in a surprise pull both could (perhaps) mortally wound the other in a single shot. It's like watching Clint Eastwood vs. The Lone Ranger.

Still, still, there is no good reason explained in the story for why the LA would even have gone to Destiny.

The concept of the cliffhanger at season's end is overdone in modern TV, and in this case SGU really poured it on thick. It would be one thing to be left wondering if all the military were about to be executed, OR, if Telford would live, OR if the preganant Lt. would live (or her child), OR if the two outside the ship would get back in time, OR if Eli could figure out how to get himself and his woman (heh) out in time before the oxygen depletes, OR if the ship manages to survive the next burst of gamma rays, OR if Kiva survives, OR if the civilians are next in line for execution, OR....

The suspense is painted on so thick that "over the top" doesn't adequately describe what happened. It's as if the writers are trying to make this into a James Bond movie.

Here again we get to the problem of the style in which SGU has been produced. The writers have tried to make us concerned about these people as if they were real. Well, good fiction should do that. Yet when the story-line becomes too improbable then I suspend my disbelief and all of a sudden the story looks like a spoof, or mockery, of what was originally intended.

If SGU survives to season two, let us hope that producers can decide which way to go: as a serious drama, or as a super-hero flick.

Well-said. re-quoting it.

It was predictable. With Atlantis drifting in space, you didn't know how they'd get out of it. In some ways, you thought Weir was going to survive, so that wasn't suspenseful... but she was gone anyway in the next season. That taught you that not everyone has plot armor in Atlantis, so SGA arguably did a better job exposing people to dark and edgy than SGU has done.

That's suspense, when you don't know how they will get out of it, and getting into it wasn't their fault; it just seemed like everything went wrong yet they did their best. NOTHING at all like SGU, where they only got into it because they were idiots. It's hard to feel sympathy or suspense when an idiot gets his own self into deep ****.

And suspense goes, because I can tell exactly what is going to happen in the first episode of season 2:

Varro is going to order his men to stand down, or do something to stop them.
No one is going to die, except maybe some LA guys and TJ's baby; everyone else has plot armor. I'd have a lot more respect if Young made a heroic sacrifice to make up for this.
Oh, Kiva and Telford are dead, due to they're million to one "shoot each other at the same time" maneuver. Which makes sense. Lou Diamond Philips has gotta cost a lot as an actor, so dropping him after the first season would leave more in the budget for other things.
They are gonna fix the FTL drive, or find out what's wrong, and jump again.
There may be some minor surprises, but nothing major. Oh, we'll find out why the LA wants Destiny, the exact reason being a surprise, but that's the only thing.

So, it's really hard to feel much suspense. You know they are gonna get out of it, and you know basically what's going to happen. What would be a surprise, is if Destiny did something like in Light, and took care of itself. Or if somehow Franklin did something, if he's still around somehow.

Last note, I finally figured out why I didn't like Kiva as a character. She was too... evil, just to be evil. A stereotypical stupid evil villain. The only reason she got Destiny at all, was because Young was a bigger idiot and the pulsar. It was not due to anything she did, which makes it hard to take her seriously. If it was her leadership and tactics that took the ship, then I'd feel like she was a more credible threat. As Telford pointed out, killing the hostages was damn stupid, because they were your only leverage, so it really makes me wonder how she got into any real position of power in the LA.

[Briangate78]

I guess ultimately you're right in that we do know that the character in jeporady are going to survive. The main ones always do. But thats just TV. You can pretty much say any season finale will do that. I'm interested to see how they survive. Now thats where I determine predicitablity. For instance we could say its predictable that Rush knew how to fix the pulsar problem. I say its more the way Rush fixes it. Collapsing part of the shield never crossed my mind

I know you have to respect what SGA did, but I understand bringing him back kinda ruined the whole drama to Carson dying in the first place. If you think about it, SGA was the only SG show to date to kill off a main character. Bringing him back is just a totally different discussion. I loved the Kindred, but did not care for him in Season 5 as much.

If they kill off a main in the next season or so, and leave them dead, I will be very impressed. But I don't think they will because of this fandom.

[major davis]

I know you have to respect what SGA did, but I understand bringing him back kinda ruined the whole drama to Carson dying in the first place. If you think about it, SGA was the only SG show to date to kill off a main character. Bringing him back is just a totally different discussion. I loved the Kindred, but did not care for him in Season 5 as much.

If they kill off a main in the next season or so, and leave them dead, I will be very impressed. But I don't think they will because of this fandom.

I still blame the regulars not staying dead on BP. Its obviously their fault.