'Incursion, Part 2' (120) General Discussion

[Commander Zelix]

Very good action episode, but I won't as far as saying it was great overall episode.

There was a lot of actions but there's simply no meat to the story as I said last week. For example, The Island movie is not all action, it has action but also an interesting story about a perfect society of the future, then a society with a dark secret, then 2 adult-children in a modern society, then clone vs clone. Obviously the same could be said about many Sci-fi action movie like Minority Report, Avatar, Matrix, etc.

The action happening was good but wasn't great. It was about a whole episode about trading hostages and stuff.

But within this limited storyline, everything works great imo. I like Wray presenting some civilian counter-point to Young. Which must be the worst commander in television history (which could be realist. He's simply NOT a TV heroe. He sucks and not as good at what he does as other TV heroes ). As I said, I liked the Wray character in this episode.

Kiva and the other LA were also very descent villains, again a bit too standard and basic for Sci-fi, but they are not too dumb and their action somehow make sense (which is not evident in a lot of TV/Movie which often portray villain as completely illogical and violent morons). Obviously, we will know more about the LA true intention about the Destiny in Season 2. As of now, they are just suicidal villain hellbent on getting trap on a rusted ship with no food and no chance of getting back ever.

I think the episode was also well written character wise from Scott and Greer exchange to Eli and Chloe, passing by TJ with the LA guys. Everybody was in character and sometime present some divergent point of view on the situation.

I must say Telford really redeem himself in those last episodes. I didn't like the character before but post-brainwashed Telford seems like a good military guy. If earth is looking for a replacement for Young, there you have it. Scott is too soft, Greer too gun happy, TJ is a medic, BAG prefer to work on a metaphysical level, James is too much a cry baby, etc. Telford now that is some leadership!!

I like the Eli and Chloe subplot from his declaration of love to them wondering what happens on the ship and trying to survive. They made a nice, even if somewhat simplist, diversion to the hostage swapping main storyline.

Nice cliffhanger even if there's really nothing to it. It's a basic will they die will they not, not a game changer (like the Destiny exploding, all the crew left on some planet by the LA, or a parallel universe Destiny crew shooting Destiny people and taking over the Destiny in the last 20 min with a few explanations, etc, etc). I think Justice had a better cliffhanger for example, because of the consequence of what Young did, same as wondering what will happen to Rush. It was a game changer.

Again in this episode the special effects were simply top notch. I also like the cinematography and the music score.

Also kudos to the secondary characters which are one of the SGU strength.

While I'm not afraid to ditch out real ratings like 3 for earth, 2 for life, maybe 4 for Sabotage, 5 for Justice, maybe 8 for Time, 8 for Space.

I will give this episode a 7. A good action episode with no meat as a storyline but good at what it does (action). Entertaining and fun.

[myhelix]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I bet none of the main characters of SGU are dead or will die in the next few episodes. Scott, Greer, Chloe, Eli, TJ, Young, Rush, Wray won't die and probably not even Telford, who I don't count as a main character.

That would be a tad bit unrealistic, giving the circumstances on the Destiny with not much medical supply's and stuff. And TJ and Telford seem to be pretty bad wounded. And Chloe don´t look good either. Young is in danger to get shot every minute. Scott and Greer are in danger . The only two people not in peril are Rush, Brody and maybe Eli.
But I really hope they don´t kill anyone from the main cast and replace them with some LA guy, that would be a mistake. After all, the chances are good that the "main crew" close ranks, and show more team spirit after those events, especially Young and Rush.

[Demoniser]

mm interesting episode.

Pros

- Good dialogue
- Dr Park - "don't shoot!" (spoke volumes about how Col Young has treated the scientists imo)
- Eli and Chloe scenes, some character development! Eli plays hero.
- Telford being a good guy, i hope he survives somehow.
- Final little montage of everything going to **** and the cliffhanger

Cons

- Redshirts who got shot were..redshirts. It needed a Peter Grodin type character, unless the baby inevitably dying is meant to be the equivalent.
- Young and Rush hostility. I find it frustrating to watch, it's like watching two grown men act like kids bickering. Get over it already.
- No sense of jeopardy tbh, we know how its all going to turn out, all the main cast will be fine ,the baby will be dead, some LA guys will switch sides (the guy helping TJ).
- The wait for season 2.

[garhkal]

I have no words to describe what I'm feeling after seeing that conclusion...

I was amazed they made it better than the siege pt2.. At least with that one, we knew hope was on the way.

One thing... They put all the military personel in one room... I'm pretty sure there are more people than those 7 standing around Young.

True dat. Though one thing i would love to know. What was up with Young looking up in the air (to the ceiling).. Was that him 'accepting his fate'?

Now that's what i call a cliffhanger...

the only other one that comes close imo, is the one from SG1's season 1 ender..

I'd say this is right up there with Siege Part 2 as far as the cliffhangar goes. Still like Siege better, but I might change my mind once this one has a chance to sink in.

Of course, I was watching on DVD for Siege, so I didn't have to wait a few months

I disagree. In the Siege, we knew hope was on the way via what Col Everett told the team.

In this one, there is not that hope of any outside help.

It was awesome. Intense action. And tell me seriously everyone, who didn't love Eli's Han Solo style exit. Chloe gots da butterflies.

I loved how he seemed to be bursting with energy right after lounging around for a little bit with lessening oxygen.

Right now, I am really liking the direction. No more SG1 surviving retarded odds. Honestly I didn't give a damn about any of them since Plot-Kai kept them all alive. Now its intense and full of pure Win!

It did kind of get a little repetitive.. And i have never heard of Plot-kai.. Interesting phrase.

Did they seriously Just kill TJ??? Chloe too??!! I cant effin believe it just ended like that... with you still on the edge of your frackin chair!! No That wasn't fair at all.. brilliant writing. And one big HooRah to the marine blasting everyone.. maybe except for TJ. I'm damn glad Kiva got one, looks like her replacement is worse.

Young, your my point man on this show but I'm flat out disappointed.

It did kind of look that way with TJ. BUT as for chloe, i am surprised she has not already lapsed out cold from the shock and blood loss.

Ok, so here is my review of the Season one finale. Did I finally get my wow moment? Well yes, and no. I kinda felt they were leading up to this. I think Stargate has given us much stronger cliffhangers like “Camelot”, “First Strike”, and “The Seige part 2". So although to me it was a solid good ep, and an excellent cliffhanger, I felt the producers did not top themselves.

I would not go so far to put it up there with Camelot or first strike, but imo it was ahead of the siege pt2.

I think Wray was good in this episode also, and she was shocked to see Kiva use the 4th person trade as a dead body.

As i mentioned elsewhere, how easily she got owned by Kiva's machinations shows how useless she is as a negotiator.

[QUOTE=Briangate78;11598731]I think the best part of the episode is the last 3 or so 4 mins when the music montage goes on and you are seeing Eli running and Scott and Greer outside running while TJ is lying there bleeding. Very powerful stuff. Kinda reminds me a little of “The Reckoning” when it cuts to all 4 characters fighting the replicators while Daniel has been stabbed and is dying.[quote]

I was also amazed how reminded of that Season 8 episode this ending made me feel. I loved the way they cut back and fourth. And for once, the music was not out of place.

Greer and Scott are running alongside the hull of the ship. When that shield drops because of the pulasr they are dead. Gamma radiation is quite cruel.

Do we know if those suits will help out anyway? But i wonder if the ship will jump into FTL and they are still outside, if the ship will vape them like it did to those Blue alien fighters.

Eli has come such a long way IMO since the very beginning of this show. He was playing quite the hero in this one.

Agreed. This ep alone gave him some much needed growing up and "manning up". I hope they keep it going.

Could this be where we get our token alien team member?

As long as there is only one of those for every 3 of us (keeping the ratio intact)

The only thing that will rob this finally of it's intensity is if they ALL live. Someone has to die!! lol... Can't be TJ, though. Obviously she and Varro will be hooking up. Any takers? lol

I say chloe. She has lost a lot of blood, and we know if a wound is not treated soon it will go septic. That and she is also in a low oxygen area (heck it lost more).. So i can easily see her biting the big one.

Spoiler:

LDP- Telford
Julia Benson- Lt. James
Patrick Gilmore- Volker
Jennifer Spence- Park
Peter Kelamis- Brody
Jeffrey Bowyer Chapman- Becker
These people have all tweeted about filming episodes for season 2.

So no

Spoiler:

Chloe then

Jelgate's Two Cents

If I could describe Incursion Part II in one word it would be speechless. I am totally speechless on the events that unfolded in this episode. Most specifically the ending but we are getting ahead of ourselves. The whole point of season finales in to leave your audience in suspense and just begging for more come the next season of the show. And count me as one of those people. I thought it was a worthy end to this season and all that SGU has brought us. The only downside is that I have to wait until October 5th to see how it plays out. But let’s get started on my last review for awhile.

I feel the same way. Worse in a sense as being stationed in Okinawa, i get it the following day. So i have to wait till the 6th!... BUT as far as season enders go, this ranks up there with first strike and camelot to me.

Speaking of Kiva she sure is cold. Just walking into the gateroom and shooting that soldier because she was angry. I have said it before and I will say it again you have to be a cold person to show absolutely no emotion when you kill someone like that. Its mind blowing.

Again, she reiminds me so much of how the other K-A person was (here is a hint, he was a nemesis for Shep)

Not only do we have two groups fighting for control of Destiny but we also have a piece of “space matter” that wants to kill us. It makes it more dire and makes Kiva more cold and interesting

Especially siince it seemed she was willing to condemn them ALL to death, to get her way. man she has to have Antifreeze for blood.

I have to credit to Wray on this one. I’m one the first to call her annoying and other things I’m not allowed to say here. But I take credit for the courage it took what she did arranging the prisoner exchange and going in there full well Kiva wouldn’t keep her end of the bargain.

The only aspect of that i give Wray credit for, is going in without a vest. Showing full well she was committed to making a truce of sorts. BUT if she knew she was going to get double crossed, why did she do it?

I think it shows a tender moments between the two in it really tries to show despite all this friction that there is a part of her that cares about Eli. Just a lot different then how she cares about Scott.

I am hoping that if she survives, she actually KEEPS on that road, showing / proving to Eli she is worthy of his level of devotion.

I know I said you want to be suspenseful and have you audience begging for more at the cliffhangers of season finales but that is too much. I’m just jaw dropping at everything is going on. We have a Lucian Alliance soldier shoot up the room leaving TJ for dead. We have Chloe passed out from what I can only guess is internal bleeding. We have Eli rushing to an airlock to save Scott and Greer who are about to die from a pulsar on the hull. And then the biggest draw dropping is the enraged Lucian Alliance 2IC gathering up all the military personnel including Young and is about to shoot them. Rush seems to be the only safe one in his console chair. I think it’s just cruel to make us this suspenseful for 3 months.

That is a great assessment of how we are left. BUT you forgot Brody is with rush.
What got me, was how well they transitioned between the areas of 'dispair' and to the areas of hope so well.

As this is a long one, i will cont it next post!

[bobsuncorp]

wait... october? SERIOUSLY?

Either October or November, definitely no sooner.

It just annoys me that we have to wait that long to get a resolution. I mean they could have all finished the story, won the day and given a Thundercat style "don't do drugs" and fake laugh at the end and we would still come back for a second season. It isn't necessary to make us feel like we are missing a limb.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

So in your opinion, Young shouldn't be in charge. That's what i get from that, that he's incompetent because the stress has made him crack. If so, then i hope he loses command in Season 2.

Sorry, i don't see it. Young was smart enough to know about venting the atmosphere which is a more technical type of trap. I can't see how he wouldn't think "Hmm.. maybe we could set some other less complicated traps just in case, maybe actually venting it to start with or maybe covering the gate room floor with fuel from Greer's flamethrower. Yeah that'd be a great trap that can't really fail."

Given how much people have talked about this particular plot point, it wasn't sold well enough for me to believe that Young is so mentally gone that he was capable of such ineffectual defending.

His defensive position is extremely competent, it keeps it simple, it keeps all his personnel out of harm's way and it expends none of his ammo. All of which are important to him. He bottled it, made a mistake, it happens.

Apart from that your second guessing the situation to a ridiculous extent. You've had the luxury of sitting around for a week coming up with ludicrous ways to defend the Destiny, he has limited time, he has a plan. He could have faffed around with oil on the floor or some ******** like that, but he really doesn't have the time. He had a plan he had a defence, he further had his personnel placed around the gateroom for defence in depth.

Young at the crucial moment made a poor decision, or rather hesitated making a decision. One decision can win or lose a battle. Napoleon arguably lost the battle of Waterloo because at a crucial moment he committed his reserve, the Old Guard. One decision and it cost him a battle. The battle of Britain was won by the RAF mainly because at a crucial moment the Luftwaffe make the decision to switch targets from Airfields to cities. During Operation Market Garden,. Allied commander hesitated, unwilling to take the initiative and bypass German defences via alternate routes.

What Young did was stupid, but happily fits in with his character as a man cracking under the strain.

Even if you don't agree that his defences were adequate there are countless examples of officers in senior positions making horrendous choices when it came to defending positions which often cost them the battle.

People have off days, there is the case of Lord Chelmsford, an experienced commander commander of the British Forces during the Zulu wars. At his first action of that war, the battle of Isandalwana, he divided his forces which lead to around half his force being completely wiped out. Following this debacle there was demand for him to be removed from command and a replacement was sent. However due to 19th Century travelling times by the time the replacement had arrived, Chelmsford had got his act together and won the war. General Montgomery, a veritable military genius, failed to succeed in Operation Market Garden. People screw up and make mistakes, even the most competent and experienced military commander.

[bobsuncorp]

The best finale's I have seen (not just SG) have tied up at least most plotlines, and if necessary introduced a new one for the cliffhanger. That is enough to make you want to come back, and yet still able to watch the series without feeling like it is incomplete.

[Coronach]

Either October or November, definitely no sooner.

It just annoys me that we have to wait that long to get a resolution. I mean they could have all finished the story, won the day and given a Thundercat style "don't do drugs" and fake laugh at the end and we would still come back for a second season. It isn't necessary to make us feel like we are missing a limb.

Yes, we would come back. However, if you've been watching the ratings thread you'll know that it will benefit SGU to pull in as many viewers as possible into the 2nd season. And what better way to do that than with a cliffhanger?

[bobsuncorp]

Yes, we would come back. However, if you've been watching the ratings thread you'll know that it will benefit SGU to pull in as many viewers as possible into the 2nd season. And what better way to do that than with a cliffhanger?

Well those people should just stick to watching "Dancing with the stars on ice get me out of here big brother" or whatever!!

Seriously I get what you're saying, and in truth I do feel better now that I've vented.

[mparsons1981]

This episode was a load of rubbish.

I'm sorry but there you go.

Reasons why,

This was not an 'action' episode as some have described. Nothing happened. It was all talk talk talk bull****.

No-one significant died. Quicker get rid of bloody stupid chloe the better. She is such a waste of space.

Stupid cliffhanger.

I agree with the recent podcast when it was mentioned how annoying cliffhangers are. Why do i have to be persuaded to wait till next season to find out what happens? Maybe cause they had no story to tell and were just making this story stretch out as much as possible.

Another reason - stupid predicatable behaviour of the grunts in the lucian alliance.

Another reason - There was a podcast on women in stargate recently, and how they are portrayed so badly. They fall into 3 groups, perfect angelic great examples of motherhood (carter, teyla), waste of space morons (chloe, dr keller) or *****es (lucian alliance leader - dressed in black leather, cause shes soooo tough), the writers of this show just cannot write women at all. Which is important if you want to a character based show.

Its annoys me as well cause now i know that we are not go to see any forward momentum of this idea that anyone can die at any moment, cause the 3rd episode in this trilogy, at the start of next season, will just see everything wrapped up nicely.

It was mentioned on the most recent podcast that things were expected to happen, well nothing did.

Ok some people might be dead, but come on theyre not going to be, it justs a gimmicky way to get us all to come back next year.

Sorry, but this episode was a waste of time.

[garhkal]

That was awesome. I can't believe they gave TJ the abortion. I loved the scene of the Runner (Varro?) shooting that soldier.



Classic Stargate.

The way he did that maneuver just made me think of Ronon..

So that's where I knew him from. I thought he looked familiar; thanks for mentioning.

He also played the Gou'ald hired Bounty hunter in an earlier ep of SG1.. forgot the eps name

Yup, Young is an idiot. If he had vented when he had the chance, this wouldn't have happened. And he gave in too easily on letting Kiva have the ship. He should have just vented her side and sent Scott and Greer in. Of course, Young and his people have plot armor, so they're gonna live through his dumb decisions; more's the pity. He might actually learn something if he keeps losing people through his idiot plays.

Bieng i do a lot of roleplaying games, one of the biggest things everyone is saying is LET stupidity kill. IMO it would to me at least, be poetic to see young be the one to bite it, for his indecision and lack of testicular fortitude, while the others are saved.

The soundtrack @ the end, it was like all coming to a end. Young face was just awesome..
One of the best cliffhangers ive ever seen.

It reminded me of the way Tommy Lee Jones's character in that film "Blown away" ended, where he just looked up into the heavens, accepting his fate.

That look on his face made me think he's wondering where he went wrong after telling Rush(?) that he was going to save every single person on the Destiny (his crew), and not one person was going to die. Famous last words ...

I feel badly for Young.

He did seem a little "Why me" at first, but the look of resignation imo was more to do with accepting he was defeated.

Eli: doesn't seem to be in any direct peril (apart from wearing himself out by exertion) but emotionally he's in quite a state, being relied upon to save two lives while having to abandon Chloe who knows he'd do anything to save her. Even though he won't get physically injured he's not going to come out of this unscathed.
Chloe: Yeah we see her pass out but we can trust that she'll be rescued soon enough. Still plenty suspenseful.

Actually what would make it even more 'heart wrenching is if she DID die, and he realises that it was him leaving her that caused it.

Telford and Kiva: wow, having them shooting each other was a shock when it happened, but at the same time not. Points to Kiva for immediately realising what was happening and reacting.

It was interesting how quickly she pieced it together that he had double crossed them.

Varro would have been the one I would have expected to take charge especially since we know now that his recuperative powers are off the scale. It seems to me that would make him super human or he is a snake head.

The way he seemed to have all that energy right after having surgery does make you wonder if something is going on here. Maybe he is a Jaffa (former) who has a hidden stash of tretonin.

Here's a question when the power goes out would that shielded hull breach lose integrity and wouldn't Scott and Greer be able to just go in?

Yes it would, but the radiatio would still get the chance to enter and cook them.

dude she was shoot in the leg and givven that there was no dripping on the floor its safe to say that she'll live

I have known people to die from the shock of breaking a limb (admittedly only 2) so i can easily see her dying from a mix of the wound, and shock.
'

Lisa Parks "Don't yell.... we don't know yet" line was another nice moment. I like it when the ancillary characters have more to do than just give information.

That scene, reminded me of those 2 in the shuttle fixing it and having a good/bad info situation.

It could be as simple as coating the floor with grease/oil and the LA suddenly can't maneuver properly so the venting could take effect. They can wash the grease/oil off later, it's not like they're using the gate that very instant.

Or heck, turning off the lights and gravity.

Cons

It needed a Peter Grodin type character, unless the baby inevitably dying is meant to be the equivalent.

I disagree that the baby is the 'grodin' here. IMO that might either be riley, chloe or Scott/greer.

[Commander Zelix]

This was not an 'action' episode as some have described. Nothing happened. It was all talk talk talk bull****.

It's not an action episode if your definition of action episode is gun battles in some corridor, hand to hand fight and ship battle.

[Utitan]

Looks like I am going to be in the minority again...

Too many things about this episode keep me from giving it a thumbs up. Yes, parts of it were interesting or even exciting, but so much just seems too contrived. Waaaay too contrived.

For example, that Kiva and Telford would be so perfect of shots that in a surprise pull both could (perhaps) mortally wound the other in a single shot. It's like watching Clint Eastwood vs. The Lone Ranger.

Still, still, there is no good reason explained in the story for why the LA would even have gone to Destiny.

The concept of the cliffhanger at season's end is overdone in modern TV, and in this case SGU really poured it on thick. It would be one thing to be left wondering if all the military were about to be executed, OR, if Telford would live, OR if the preganant Lt. would live (or her child), OR if the two outside the ship would get back in time, OR if Eli could figure out how to get himself and his woman (heh) out in time before the oxygen depletes, OR if the ship manages to survive the next burst of gamma rays, OR if Kiva survives, OR if the civilians are next in line for execution, OR....

The suspense is painted on so thick that "over the top" doesn't adequately describe what happened. It's as if the writers are trying to make this into a James Bond movie.

Here again we get to the problem of the style in which SGU has been produced. The writers have tried to make us concerned about these people as if they were real. Well, good fiction should do that. Yet when the story-line becomes too improbable then I suspend my disbelief and all of a sudden the story looks like a spoof, or mockery, of what was originally intended.

If SGU survives to season two, let us hope that producers can decide which way to go: as a serious drama, or as a super-hero flick.

Sooo, I'm confused....Why do you watch it? That's like getting a dish at your favorite restaurant and only after you eat the WHOLE entire meal you say, "wow, that was really awful, I'll have to get that one again!"

If you just don't like the show, have nothing good to say about it, then how about not watching it? It makes perfect sense.

[mparsons1981]

It's not an action episode if your definition of action episode is gun battles in some corridor, hand to hand fight and ship battle.

What so action is 'intense scenes of people looking really really serious,' cause thats all that was on show here.

[erotavlas]

Kiva shooting TJ in cold blood would of been really powerful.

a bit too powerful imo. the show is dark enough already...that would have just pushed it over the edge.