Some of the Military Shocked me

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

The military acted in a perfectly restrained manner. Young might need to be removed but he should be done by a legitimate authority, ie an order from O'Neill from Homeworld Command, not a bunch of mutinous civilians. Greer actually showed some of the most restraint, he went to the mess room with an unchambered weapon and only cocked it when Volker wouldn't sit down. As for James hitting a civilian, well in a situation like that you need to get everyone under control and on the floor, better that someone has a tap on the head rather than a bullet in the chest because someone got ideas.

[luckylad]

i disagree entirely, the civilians went to far and were trying to blackmail the military into standing down. I wouldnt expect anything less from a soldier.

And on the female soldier using force against someone quickly stops others from trying any heroics

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Just to add, do certain people here have slight memory problems or are they just new to Stargate? Because the military being shown as less than perfect is nothing new to stargate, SG1 and SGA both had officers who screwed up, made mistakes, walked all over civilians without comprise or discussion and in the case of Colonel Maybourne, Simmons, Makepeace and a few others several were shown to be downright treasonous. Stargate has always shown the military as just ordinary people doing a job, some of those people are heroes, some aren't. It's never been propaganda and that as someone who is associated with the military this was one of the reasons I was attracted to it.

[gotthammer]

Colonel Maybourne

He may have been a traitor...but he was KING!

Gotta agree w/ the rest of the post.

[Arica15]

I think one of the big things is that people seem to assume that a soldier really is just a robot, no they are people, highly trained people who know a lot of different ways to kill you, but still just people. Putting on a unifrom does not make you superhuman, nor does it imbue anyone with the patience of a saint. In a chaotic situation soldiers will react how they've been trained to react, to try and be ordered, to try and make things make sense, and a rigid structure of command makes sense to them Did they handle the face off well? probably not, but I wonder how many courses they ran on this particular scenario back on the military bases (I'm guessing it didn't come up much.)

Yes the civilians are having a tough time, but so are the soldiers, so far we've had a lot of civilian - and soldier whining - Young behaves like a bully, Rush is a lunatic and Wray is the living embodiement of the Peter principle.

i think to me what the show was really saying is not that the poor wittle civilians are being bullied by the military, but that they are all over their heads. And apart from anything else among the collective genius's on the civilian side, why on earth did they think attacking a bunch of highly trained soldiers who are probably all on the bunch of cracking up was likely to end up in anything other than a lot of dead scientists?

Actually the more and more I think about it to me its the actions of the civilians that seem totally deranged in this

[Tuvok]

yep

would you like to start an sga vs sgu battle here?

Nah...While I love SGU who knows how I might feel in a year? All it takes for it to go a certain direction and I will be right behind you. Smallville, Andromeda , Earth Final Conflict, Enterprise etc

Hopefully not.

Besides I get the whole love\ hate thing sci-fi can bring out in people. Let's just say while positive now I too can get a little fan angry when warrented and when justified.

I really , really think the crew need a game night. Just to ease things over.

[GateroomGuard]

The military did something wrong in regards to the mutiny? I didn't see it unless it was Young just giving all of them a pass.

Greer took out a group of possibly armed mutineers, non-lethally.
James riflebutted a man who was a possible danger.

I don't care if these people were unarmed, the military doesn't know that. Why should they have to risk their safety for the safety of people who five minutes ago were deciding the best way to starve them out?

If the police came in my room and told me to get on the ground and I walked toward one of them I'd expect to get the crap beaten out of me.

If the military came in and told me to get on the ground after I had taken part in an armed mutiny against them and I walked toward one of them I'd expect a chest full of lead and a free ticket to heaven.

You don't play nice to people your trying to subdue. Would it have been better had Greer and James played it the nice happy civilized way

Greer: Excuse me Civillians, Col. Young has ordered me to take back the ship. I just want to make sure that you are all unarmed so I don't have to hurt you. If any of you are armed please tell me.
Civillians: We're not armed.
Greer: Thank you thats a great... gunshot
Civillians: Wow, he actually fell for it.

James: Get on the Floor! Unless any of you have a problem with that because we don't want to make the people who just tried to kill us uncomfortable because their civillians which makes them holier than thou who can do no wrong.
Man walks towards her
James: Sir please stop moving forward. We have asked you nicely to get on the floor and you are still not stoping. If you do not stop I will have to ask Col. Young for permission to talk mean to you because you are an unarmed civillian, at least I think you're an unarmed civillian.
Man attacks.

There is no reason for moving towards someone with a gun other that attacking.

The military should be commended for showing such restraint.

[escyos]

if i was young id be pissed and have them locked up

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

He may have been a traitor...but he was KING!

And an excellent king, HAIL KING ARKHAN! But he was traitorous as hell, running the rogue NID, selling secrets to the Russians. And he was hardly the worst, lest we forget Colonel Simmons who shot O'Neill twice in the back during the raid on Adrian Conrad's hospital. I think some people on this forum have very short memories.

[hiro]

The military came out as a bunch of savages with guns.

come on!! if the thing was gone further the civilians will actually kill the soldiers or at last Young !

if i was a trained soldier who a bunch of civilians have left for dead and when i found them pretend that nothing happens .... i 'll hit him too !

He may have been a traitor...but he was KING!

Yeap !!! the best king ! he used to see the future


And about all ... it's obvious that if they split up they'll die, the civilians have the intelligence and the military the force ... they should work together !! Or what ? Cloe with a gun figthing the aliens and Tj at the bridge controlling the ship ? come on !

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The Shrike,

The civilians should impose work to rule from this point forward. When the ships systems start malfunctioning, they should just tell Greer and James to bash it with the butts of their guns until it's fixed.

I absolutely agree. The military needs the civilians as much as the civilians need the military. It's time they both recognized that and structured the leadership accordingly.

[Lord Hurin]

If Young neglects to address these events, that would be a very bad leadership decision, IMO.

It was about a minute before the end of the episode, so I think we can cut them (both Young and the writers) some slack. Hopefully, Young is going to consult with Wray about what these people really want and need and they'll come up with a plan of action. Don't forget, Young isn't used to being defied and put into a situation like he was. He probably needed a little time to clear his head and gather his thoughts.

Yeah, I think that's why I'm giving her a little bit of leeway (that and I didn't get a good look at what she did in the episode... will have to re-watch later). But Greer... well, I need to see some character development from him pretty soon to redeem him in my eyes. I liked him early on, but between his actions in Water and now in Divided, I haven't been impressed.

I'm unsure of what he did so wrong? Besides knocking out those two civilian guards (who were probably armed, as they were GUARDING access to where the military was being held) Greer didn't use unnecessary force. He yelled a lot and was generally unpleasant, sure, but that's what Marines do in situations with potential hostiles. Still, people go on about how he's a bloodthirsty barbarian. Where's the proof? If he was so arrogant and violent then why didn't he beat everyone in the mess hall? Why didn't he start shooting? Overall, this is another feather in the "Greer's in control of his anger" cap for me...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

reddevil,

You know what shocked me? That the Airman didn't just blow Wray's head off right then and there. End the whole thing. Damn *****. Yes, I'm a violent person and I think civilians should squirm under the military's mighty boot while on that damn ship, inr constant danger.

Well, I have to say. If I'd been one of the scientists and Wray had been blown away like that for asserting something as simply as civilian control of military personel, or, failing that cooperation and coordination between equally balance civilian and military authorities, I'd simply refuse to do any more work possible go on hunger strike. The military needs the civilians to keep the ship operating and the food growing. The civilians need the military to defend the ship. Losing either factor in that equation and the whole thing falls apart. Blowing anyone's brains out is the wrong way to go.

[norph]

Also that Female marine (forget her name) walks into the room and beats up a civilian, even though the civilian posed no threat to her or the military. He wasn't even attacking.

Actually the civilian was approaching the marine despite being told to get down, I believe it's in their training to prevent people from approaching them especially in a dangerous situation. I suspect police officers in real life also have same procedure, imagine this, when a police officer in a situation where he has to tell you to get down on the floor or go against the wall, if you continue to approach the officer, he would take you down one way or another.

[The Swarm]

To be honest i think both the military and the civilians need to stop being idiots and frikin' work together instead of biteing eachother while under atack form 3 alien ships....its beyond me how stupid this episode was writen.