'Divided' (112) General Discussion

[s09119]

The gang on Destiny still do have civilians technically over them. Young reports to O'Neill who reports to the President.

However, what is also true, and which the stories so far have not embraced or explored well, is that Destiny is on a one-way journey and these people are not going home. This has been left unresolved for too long. If they want a civilian government on the ship then they will have to form one, which does not mean mutiny!

Enough time has elapsed in the SGA story-line where they really ought to have worked this out farther by now. I think the story is dragging a bit here, and there should have been more conflict over this already. Throwing in a few unmitigatedly despondent individuals (e.g., suicides) might be reasonable also, as well as other types of fights than just the Rush/Young battle for the alpha male.

While I enjoyed this episode, in some ways SGA still is struggling with having all the characters acting like high-schoolers. That fits the young Chloe character, and the psychopathically narcissistic Rush character, but seems wrong for so many of the other characters.

Young would never cede command to civilian leadership for the long haul willingly, hence the actions of the civilians.

[Commander Zelix]

The gang on Destiny still do have civilians technically over them. Young reports to O'Neill who reports to the President.

However, what is also true, and which the stories so far have not embraced or explored well, is that Destiny is on a one-way journey and these people are not going home.

I completely agree with that. It remind me of the slow progression on Voyager when people slowly had to accept that Voyager might become a generational ship. But this facet wasn't explored yet on the Destiny.

[reddevil18]

I completely agree with that. It remind me of the slow progression on Voyager when people slowly had to accept that Voyager might become a generational ship. But this facet wasn't explored yet on the Destiny.

Slow progression on Voyager? That was one of the most annoying aspects of Voyager. How the crew just put their differences aside in like 5 minutes. And there was no real sense of desperation, even if they thought they wouldn't make it home in their lifetimes. That sense of desperation was seen in Year Of Hell, but then they used the good ol' reset button and all was okay.

[The_Asgard_live]

...
Nevermind that the only reason she was taken was because during a battle she thought it would be a good idea to stand under a freshly cut hole in the ship and stare up. No doubt she figured it was a spotlight built just for her.
...

When I read someone's line about Chloe's function being that of a backup MALP, I thought that was the funniest thing I had read on this site. this is just as good! Brilliant.

[Quinn Mallory]

I like the direction that these episodes are taking. Another positive step for SGU.

[Vapor]

Slow progression on Voyager? That was one of the most annoying aspects of Voyager. How the crew just put their differences aside in like 5 minutes. And there was no real sense of desperation, even if they thought they wouldn't make it home in their lifetimes. That sense of desperation was seen in Year Of Hell, but then they used the good ol' reset button and all was okay.

Gods, yes. They had such great potential with the start of that show, but they shot it all away for the sake of random adventures where the crew barely faced any serious interpersonal drama and were always just fine and dandy at the end of almost every single episode.

Don't get me wrong, there were things I liked about Voyager, but I'm glad SGU seems to be taking a much bumpier course with regard to the sense of desperation and crew divisions.

[Commander Zelix]

Slow progression on Voyager? That was one of the most annoying aspects of Voyager. How the crew just put their differences aside in like 5 minutes. And there was no real sense of desperation, even if they thought they wouldn't make it home in their lifetimes. That sense of desperation was seen in Year Of Hell, but then they used the good ol' reset button and all was okay.

Its completely false. Obviously Voyager is about enlightened human from the 24th century (with no capitalism, no violence etc). But thats the premise of Star Trek. Especially since the next generation. I still think its great Voyager is not another BSG, SAAB or SGU. If you want dark and gritty, you don't look at TNG or Voyager. The Sci-fi premise of those show is: How are more civilized human in the future will react to such and such situation? You don't like it, you don't watch it. Don't get me wrong, Ive watched the Saw movies, Batman Begins with excitement. I'm just glad to have original and different stuff on TV.

But to get back on topic, Voyager did have a slow progression on the acceptance of their situation. The only thing that was resolved too fast in my opinion is the conflict with the Marquis. Even if you keep the enlightened human premise intact, it can be fun to have a bunch of people who don't think likewise (but eventually turns out to be wrong). Episodes like The Void were good example of it. Or the episode where the ex-marquis tries to steal some form of hyperdrive from Aliens to make the Voyager go faster (back to earth).

I don't think the possibility of SGU becoming a generational ship was discussed on the show yet. Understandably since its only been a few weeks. At this point, Destiny is still under civilian authority back on earth. It made the episode a bit pointless.

[Yoshi442]

I disagree that Voyager had a slow progression. They pretty much killed the tension by episode two or three when B'elanna suddenly decided she liked and admired the captain. And Star Trek can do dark and gritty, hence DS9.

[Commander Zelix]

I disagree that Voyager had a slow progression. They pretty much killed the tension by episode two or three when B'elanna suddenly decided she liked and admired the captain. And Star Trek can do dark and gritty, hence DS9.

DS9 was more dark and gritty and was a good show too (even if I prefer Voyager). Same thing as the movies Saw or Batman Begins which were great. I just don't think every shows must be alike. I agree that the marquis conflicts could have been resolved slower, and still live up to the basic original premise of the show (instead they used rogue action by Paris, Belanna, Seven, etc from time to time), but its not the same thing as the acceptance that they will never get back to earth. Thats another storyline. Which wasn't explored yet on SGU at the moment of the mutiny.

[carmencatalina]

I've just read this whole thread - so much interesting discussion! I think I need to see the episode again, but let's just say I liked it and I can't wait to see what happens next.

One thing from all of the comments that jumped out at me:

Rush was afraid Young would airlock him because of the tracking device. Instead he got a surgical team together to save his life.

Rush is now clearly scared of Young - Carlyle is doing an amazing job of showing us how backed up against the wall Rush is feeling. But I disagree that Young's motivation was to save Rush's life. His first reaction to finding out that Rush was implanted with the alien device?

"T.J., get it out of him."

My thinking is that he would have gladly stood by and watched T.J. or anyone else just carve it out of him, whether or not he survived the operation (or dissection!) would have been completely secondary.

Unless I'm mistaken, Young didn't come up with the idea of getting an expert to help (Wray? Someone else?) - when T.J. protested that she didn't have the skills to do it, he kept insisting that it be done. Others pulled together to come up with a plan that wouldn't kill Rush in the process.

Freakiest thing? Rush starting to come to while they were still wrist-deep in his chest. Vivisection! Cool. Horrifying, but cool. I'm wondering if they have enough antibiotics - the chances that they had an actual sterile field during that operation are pretty much nil, and in the real world, dude would go septic and die pretty quick without a drain/shunt and some serious antibiotics. But that's medical reality, not TV reality.

All in all, tense, and full of great moments. A thought - can you ever really trust someone again that you know will kill you without hesitation? Are the military really there to protect the civilians anymore, or to police them?

That's the question the civilians have to ask themselves - I think that's the question in your mind after lying on the ground with a gun pointed at your head.

[Briangate78]

Rush took a different direction in this episode. He was scared to let Young know about the tracking device. He got support from everyone, even Young. Rush has his goals, but I think he will make sure not to harm anyone or manipulate anyone to get to his goals.

I think Chloe who could not stand Rush before is growing because she now can sit down with Rush have a conversation. Before she could not even look at him. So things have changed.

It is going to be the friendship bonds that will make this crew survive. If they cannot see eye to eye, they will be destined to fail and likely be killed by an outside threat. Even Young compromised and let Eli keep the shields to full power.

They have to resolve this Civillian vs Military thing before......

Spoiler:

The aliens and lucian alliance come

[Briangate78]

I've just read this whole thread - so much interesting discussion! I think I need to see the episode again, but let's just say I liked it and I can't wait to see what happens next.

One thing from all of the comments that jumped out at me:



Rush is now clearly scared of Young - Carlyle is doing an amazing job of showing us how backed up against the wall Rush is feeling. But I disagree that Young's motivation was to save Rush's life. His first reaction to finding out that Rush was implanted with the alien device?

"T.J., get it out of him."

My thinking is that he would have gladly stood by and watched T.J. or anyone else just carve it out of him, whether or not he survived the operation (or dissection!) would have been completely secondary.

Unless I'm mistaken, Young didn't come up with the idea of getting an expert to help (Wray? Someone else?) - when T.J. protested that she didn't have the skills to do it, he kept insisting that it be done. Others pulled together to come up with a plan that wouldn't kill Rush in the process.

Freakiest thing? Rush starting to come to while they were still wrist-deep in his chest. Vivisection! Cool. Horrifying, but cool. I'm wondering if they have enough antibiotics - the chances that they had an actual sterile field during that operation are pretty much nil, and in the real world, dude would go septic and die pretty quick without a drain/shunt and some serious antibiotics. But that's medical reality, not TV reality.

All in all, tense, and full of great moments. A thought - can you ever really trust someone again that you know will kill you without hesitation? Are the military really there to protect the civilians anymore, or to police them?

That's the question the civilians have to ask themselves - I think that's the question in your mind after lying on the ground with a gun pointed at your head.

I think the writers are trying to make us see that there is tension, but that the characters are trying to work out their differences. I think when something bad happens on a grand scale, these characters will become closer and start to trust eachother.

The alien abduction have seemed to make Chloe and Rush closer. So again, it is good to see a big payoff result in character development.

I don't think Young or Rush are bad, they are just looking for the greater good, and sadly it is a conflinct of interest by how they want to get to the greater good.

[carmencatalina]

I do like Young, but I see him as flawed. (Rush being flawed pretty much goes without saying, right?)

During last night's episode, there were a couple of times when I could have kicked Young for doing things that, while they made perfect sense insofar as how to get control of the ship back, were exactly the wrong thing to do - they have to all live together after this.

I think it is good writing (and good acting!) that makes Young this character for me that I just am so frustrated with - I keep thinking - I know you are a better man than this!

[jelgate]

I think the writers are trying to make us see that there is tension, but that the characters are trying to work out their differences. I think when something bad happens on a grand scale, these characters will become closer and start to trust eachother.

The alien abduction have seemed to make Chloe and Rush closer. So again, it is good to see a big payoff result in character development.

I don't think Young or Rush are bad, they are just looking for the greater good, and sadly it is a conflinct of interest by how they want to get to the greater good.

No matter how many times people say that I just don't see it.

[Kaiphantom]

Another good episode, so let's get right into it!

Young - He may be learning. He recognizes that it was his fault that led to this, because he stranded Rush. In some respects, he didn't do what he should (I was expecting something of a speech about how they have to learn to get along), but he did give the nod to Wray, so I'll see how well he follows through on further episodes. Props for not shunting Rush out an airlock, although it's sad that I have to give him credit for this. It could be because Rush just saved his life earlier.

Rush - Logical. Young abandoned him once, so it was a good assumption that he might do it again. I don't see him as manipulative so much, because that implies getting someone to do what they normally wouldn't. Wray already had the civilians wanting the military to no longer be in control; Rush merely offered his support in getting it done. And he did back down and save Scott and Young, when confronted, but it could have been because he would have lost support with the civilians.

Eli - His naive and straightforward truthful nature is continuing to have pros and cons. He has been a wee bit... weak, with regards to doing as ordered like spying on people, when he should know better. But he's still the voice of reason on the show so far. He's doing a good job portraying a nerd without much social experience, so he can't tell what some people might really do. So biggest thing is that he really needs to learn and grow up a bit more, and recognize the signs in front of his face: everyone is using him.

Chloe - did a bit of growing, which I expected to happen once she stood apart from Scott. He's really holding her character back, so I give her props for this. She would have known it would become and issue between them, so either she didn't much care, or figured she could smooth him over with sex later. If they are still together after this, I'll know which one it was. Once the writers can get her out of the "sexy woman in a sexy relationship" mode, she'll eventually be able to grow more. Strange that her most useful actions in this episode, was manipulating Eli and then giving up her body for someone better, heh. I have a feeling she's either pregnant, or soon to be, which will set her down the stereotypical path of mother, thus giving her a typical woman's role. Would be a disappointment in that respect.

Scott - Biggest test will be whether he takes Chloe back, thereby showing he's whipped; I mean, the woman was part of the movement that almost killed you. Like Chloe, his biggest growth will happen once he's apart from her. I could sense the jealousy off him when he saw her talking to Rush. But with Chloe's possible pregnancy, I fear he will be set down a stereotypical path, too.

Wray - Good moves on her part. She is right when she said all military answers to a civilian authority, and that's been lacking on the ship. Time will tell if Young relents, perhaps sharing some power with a civilian oversight committee. It's funny that I didn't much like her early on, but she's really grown on me throughout the series, as she's been fleshed out and given more depth and we see her intelligence.

James and Greer were a bit rough; not surprising for the latter, but it was surprising for the former. Given that she was crying last episode, I assume she's got something pent up that might account for it. Hopefully she'll get some development and we'll see it. TJ was a bit suprising; I liked her early on, but her scene with Chloe made me wince. I fear her character will degrade when more about Young and her comes to the fore.

Overall, not bad; I'm glad it didn't create an instant happy "we're all in this together!" type family, but I do expect some resolution. This type of conflict can't continue forever or it risks becoming old and stupid. Understandable in this season, but they do need to slowly meld together.