'Darkness' (104) General Discussion

[retiredat44]

Voyager needs to run by a nebula or star and scoop up some power with the bousard collector.. that's why the ship is doing what it is doing..
err .. I mean Destiny

[Jper]

I don't think it matters what 15 year old student driver is behind the wheel when you're running out of gas.

because in this case *everyone* is a beginner when it comes to driving the Destiny.
and in the case of Destiny they can't even work the steering wheel, either.

Well, I disagree. At least they could have someone smarter than Volker, who is a complete idiot. No, seriously, I do think they could help. Now Rush is working on it all alone, because yeah it is Rush, but also because he thinks, and is right about that to some degree, that people like Volker are just not qualified to help him out.

Also, it's just more the fact that it's just being ignored. I'm not saying they should do that or that it needs to be like that. I am saying that it should be addressed by TPTB. And not in episode 14, but now.

ETA/
To use your example that you use to prove your point. (I cannot think of the correct English word for that right now.)

They are not 15yr old drivers. They have some knowledge of Ancient, the Ancients, and the technology being used, see CO2 scrubbers. They are more like someone who has learned to drive a normal car and is now driving a ten-ton truck.

Also even they all are 15yr old drivers. There are still differences amongst all the 15yr old drivers. Some will do better, be smarter, wittier, learn quicker, have more knowledge, better understandings etc. than others.

[siXbrownSnakes2]

Spoiler:

Maybe we'd feel differently about things if we were on the ship. It's old, it's suffered some damage and the air scrubbers weren't working when everyone first arrived. They haven't learned everything there is to know about the Destiny yet so it's not really surprising that they're taking a pessimistic view of it heading for the sun.

well, keep in mind that we as viewers have the benefit of knowing there are at least sixteen more episodes, so they gotta make it through somehow!

[HPMom]

I take it the ship has decided to scoop some fuel from the sun?

The only issues I have with the show are the use of the stones to visit family with accompanying emotional piano gets on my nerves and it needs more point to the episodes (crisis or problem to solve) as it can get a little slow otherwise.

I didn't mind this episode, but I'm not crazy about Young. I don't hate him, I'm just not thrilled with him. That's okay though, I remember not being crazy about Jean-Luc Picard the first season of TNG and he ended up being incredible. I thought it was unprofessional that in the midst of such a crisis he was more worried about his personal life than the situation and hand. I mean, was that really the perfect time to go and visit his wife? I like Eli and thought Young was really insulting to him.

Also, I wonder if they are ever going to make Rush and Telford likable at all.

There's not much chemistry between the characters yet, hopefully that will change soon.

[Dain]

Also, it's just more the fact that it's just being ignored. I'm not saying they should do that or that it needs to be like that. I am saying that it should be addressed by TPTB. And not in episode 14, but now.

The stupid crystals better should have been left behind. If all we are going to see is characters visiting their relatives for tearful good-byes, they'll be more trouble for the plot than they are worth.

They really should have sent some experts over to take a look at the Destiny right away. You cannot have an accidental expedition staffed by unqualified people who are struggling along and at the same time the potential for instant access to all of Earth's experts. Not sending someone over simply makes no sense plotwise.

At least they could have someone smarter than Volker, who is a complete idiot. No, seriously, I do think they could help. Now Rush is working on it all alone, because yeah it is Rush, but also because he thinks, and is right about that to some degree, that people like Volker are just not qualified to help him out.

The respectable treatment of real science was really impressive so far - mention of the details that are to be expected of the planets (tidal lock, etc) and aerobreaking. I hope they can keep it up. How the secondary cast was treated, however...was typically of television shows.

Volker is only a idiot because of author's fiat to make Rush and Eli seem smarter than they really are. If that's how secondary characters are going to be treated on the show, I'd rather not see any screentime expended on them, since they won't be allowed to overshadow the main cast anyway, not even in their own fields of expertise.

Rush really was a rambling moron in the scene were Volker was sent to help him. He never told him anything useful at all. On purpose. Note how he doesn't point out to Volker what exactly he is seeing in the interface that makes him so concerned about the power issue, even though it wasn't any more complicated than "systems all over the ship are gradually shutting down".
Instead Rush is insisting that you have to see it for yourself on the first glance or you are a moron. Sorry, but that's not how science works.
If you are not capable of convincing someone else of your "facts", you are not a genius in the scientific community, you are a fraud - or a television screenwriter.

Another irritating scene was the author-enforced helplessness of the two back-up scientists in the face of the power-outage. Yeah, of course, someone who holds a degree would never ever come up with additional suggestions beyond "we are screwed" in such a situation. Whatever. With that attitude, they'd never passed their first practical lab experiment in university.
"Computer displays error, experiment has shut down? - well there clearly is nothing we can do, lets wait until help comes along"

[garhkal]

Well, getting done with the last of these big posts.. here goes pages 21 t0 the last

Did anybody else notice that Lt Scott hasn't faced any repercussions from his first command on that desert planet? A mutiny resulted in 2 people missing, 1 person shot and they barely recovered the mineral they needed to stay alive.

Perhaps young felt that since Lt Scott was off getting the stuff, what happened with the other 2 was not his fault. As to the guy getting shot, that was Grier and rush.

is Telford in league with Rush?
Do they both know something about the ship?

It strange that Telford always want to be in the chair waiting for someone to use the stones, and when he's on board the ship, he has no concern for Youngs body, but want all data about the ship. Also he asked 'Did Rush see this coming'; refering to the power levels. I read this as Telford trusts Rush.

That is an interesting Hypothesis. Perhaps Telford has more in common with rush therefore trusts him. OR rush did something to help him out in the past..

Now they have only been on the ship a few days, SGC has only been aware for a couple of days, it seems fairly plausible to me that Mckay and Carter, who are in important postions on the Hammond and Atlantis, cant drop everthing at once and fix things.

Especially for carter as she is in COMMAND of the Hammond. And Mccay is mostly likely knee deep in fixing any damage atlantis suffered.

Did anybody else notice Rush unpacking a bag in his Kino segment? I thought he came through the stargate with just the clothes on his back, I wonder where he and Chloe got the extra stuff?

It seemed he had what we in the military call a 'ready bag' or three day bag (packed with stuff you would need for a three day excursion incluiding some new clothes) when they were still at Icarus..

When people are treated like the way Volker was on a consistent basis, sooner or later, one of three possibilities happens.

As a comedic link to that, over in the star wars RPG group i game with at gencon someone has used that 'happening' in the following phrase..
"someone calls you a hutt once, you look at them then shrug.
Someone calls you a hutt twice, you flip them the bird.
Someone calls you a hutt three times, you may start to wonder what is going on.
Someone calls you a hutt four times, drop everthing, open up a spice den and start drooling!

When Lt James called Eili into the room to talk to her and then the group of marines starts interrogating him, that would never happen. Those people are trained to do what their told when thier told to do it and not question their orders.

Normally i would agree with that, but when in stressful situations cut off from command etc, sometimes people get ;off on a tangent; of what should be done.

Man some folks are just so easily offended. It's not like you can control these things

True dat.
Heck one of the stranger ones was back in Bahrain. A local working with us in security (he manned the front gate, nothing more) loved getting into cursing battles as well as fart wars.. BUT ever say m**h*r f**ker, and he would flip out on you BADDDDD!

t's also a question of the fact why not everyone uses these stones all the time to talk to friends and family.

Maybe there are some power limitations to it. Until they explain what they did to get it, imo we won't know.

[ciannwn]

well, keep in mind that we as viewers have the benefit of knowing there are at least sixteen more episodes, so they gotta make it through somehow!

Exactly. The SGU characters don't have the luxury of coming onto GW and finding out what we viewers know.

[Jper]

The stupid crystals

Are they crystals? I don't think so. They are just "stones" I think.

better should have been left behind. If all we are going to see is characters visiting their relatives for tearful good-byes, they'll be more trouble for the plot than they are worth.

Indeed they will, if they aren't already. Personally I wasn't impressed by the two scenes, Chloe Armstrong, visiting her mother, Senator Armstrong's wife and Col. Young visiting his wife.

They really should have sent some experts over to take a look at the Destiny right away. You cannot have an accidental expedition staffed by unqualified people who are struggling along and at the same time the potential for instant access to all of Earth's experts. Not sending someone over simply makes no sense plotwise.

Indeed, but it seems like TPTB are adamant to ignore this. Not even mentioning it.

The respectable treatment of real science was really impressive so far - mention of the details that are to be expected of the planets (tidal lock, etc) and aerobreaking. I hope they can keep it up.

I agree and share your hopes.

How the secondary cast was treated, however...was typically of television shows.

Don't agree here. I thought most of it was good, and I certainly saw enough potential.

Volker is only a idiot because of author's fiat to make Rush and Eli seem smarter than they really are. If that's how secondary characters are going to be treated on the show, I'd rather not see any screentime expended on them, since they won't be allowed to overshadow the main cast anyway, not even in their own fields of expertise.

Yeah, but maybe Volker really is an idiot. I found Lisa Park to be quite good. Also the characters who made the group that cornered Eli were pretty good.
Also, what are secondary characters? I thought it was good to see a lot of people as there are a 80 people on the Destiny. Unlike other shows, SGU was really realistic and good in this aspect. I liked the secondary characters and their development.
Nah, only Volker was an idiot. I'm not saying he isn't intelligent, his behavior was just idiotic and his kino seen I found funny.

Rush really was a rambling moron in the scene were Volker was sent to help him. He never told him anything useful at all. On purpose. Note how he doesn't point out to Volker what exactly he is seeing in the interface that makes him so concerned about the power issue, even though it wasn't any more complicated than "systems all over the ship are gradually shutting down".

You seem to be missing the point. Volker should be able to see things for himself, not being told everything be Rush. How does it help Rush to have Volker there if Volker is just not helping? Nah, I disagree.

Instead Rush is insisting that you have to see it for yourself on the first glance or you are a moron. Sorry, but that's not how science works.
If you are not capable of convincing someone else of your "facts", you are not a genius in the scientific community, you are a fraud - or a television screenwriter.

Maybe then Volker should just have shut up in the first place and start looking for himself. I really think Volker was being annoying and being an idiot. And IMHO that's just who Volker is.

[Jper]

Maybe there are some power limitations to it. Until they explain what they did to get it, imo we won't know.

No they should already have explained it then. Also don't forget this an element they recycled. It see them screwing up cannon, or changing it, just to fit it in with those stones on SGU. I hope the stones exploded or something soon. That would be a good limitations. No more stones after that.

[Dain]

Don't agree here. I thought most of it was good, and I certainly saw enough potential.

Oh, yes, the other character scenes were well done so far, I was only frustrated about the treatment of the other scientists and engineers who so far have been of no real use whatsoever, even though there should have been at least two situations were even a complete layperson should have been capable of thinking up several suggestions.

You seem to be missing the point. Volker should be able to see things for himself, not being told everything be Rush. How does it help Rush to have Volker there if Volker is just not helping? Nah, I disagree.

No, that's exactly not how science works. Its always faster if you explain your reasoning to another scientist than letting him struggle on his own, were he probably never will find out just what you are currently thinking. Especially since Rush apparantly didn't have that much insight into the situation either. "Systems all over the ship are shutting down!" - that can be expressed in one single sentence and Volker knows what to look for.

Volker was only an idiot since the author's didn't allow him to pose any of the obvious questions anyone would probably have in that situation:
"If energy output is failing, where are the power generators so we can go and look at the actual problem? What are they using for fuel and how much is left? Can we perhaps get our hands on more?"

Hm, I think the main reason why I make excuses for Volker is simply that despite of Rush's claims that he had no time to talk to anyone, he didn't actually do anything besides staring at an interface. He is locked out of all systems and apparantly doesn't even have access to a program that tells him how much fuel is left or what the current power output of the ship is.
He really cannot accomplish anything at all standing there, so he is just being a jerk when he refuses to talk to Volker.

If he had said "sorry, busy trying to get access to important ship programs, I don't need help from someone who isn't a computer expert", than that would have been okay. However, that's not what he was doing at the moment.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

You may be right in nothing needs fixing but Rush is locked out of the main systems.

Clearly power is still available to the ship as it sets course and performs the maneuver that puts them on course for the sun. Clearly the ships computer is still online and the scientist states there is still some power.

Shields and life support are still working

If nothing else they should be able to access the main systems and find out if the ship is heading to the sun for a reason or if the computer is simple damaged.

Lighting is also on in the observation deck

All of their power is gone. All of the systems are dead. The only thing working is life-support and a few lights. They made a point of showing several consoles that were completely dead.

[Jper]

No, that's exactly not how science works. Its always faster if you explain your reasoning to another scientist than letting him struggle on his own, were he probably never will find out just what you are currently thinking. Especially since Rush apparantly didn't have that much insight into the situation either. "Systems all over the ship are shutting down!" - that can be expressed in one single sentence and Volker knows what to look for.

Volker was only an idiot since the author's didn't allow him to pose any of the obvious questions anyone would probably have in that situation:
"If energy output is failing, where are the power generators so we can go and look at the actual problem? What are they using for fuel and how much is left? Can we perhaps get our hands on more?"

Hm, I think the main reason why I make excuses for Volker is simply that despite of Rush's claims that he had no time to talk to anyone, he didn't actually do anything besides staring at an interface. He is locked out of all systems and apparantly doesn't even have access to a program that tells him how much fuel is left or what the current power output of the ship is.
He really cannot accomplish anything at all standing there, so he is just being a jerk when he refuses to talk to Volker.

If he had said "sorry, busy trying to get access to important ship programs, I don't need help from someone who isn't a computer expert", than that would have been okay. However, that's not what he was doing at the moment.

Yeah, okay, maybe Rush could have been more helpful, but Rush isn't known for his people skills. He just did not want Volker and he made that pretty clear. Volker was just being really annoying. My main problem with Volker is how he is acting towards Rush. Volker was ordered by Young to work with Volker and what does he do, he aggravates Rush so much that Rush throws him out. Like after five minutes. I still think that Volker should have shut after Rush said he had to work on the other console. That was my main problem. I'm saying Volker is an idiot because of his behavior.

I think it was clear Young just wanted someone there to watch Rush. Because of the fact he doesn't trust Rush or just is really concerned about him, and he's right in that I might add, I don't know. So I found that pretty obvious. However Volker doesn't seem to get that. Like I said... I wouldn't consider him really "understanding" or witty or really intelligent. So I understand Rush. So I also don't feel that scene was bad.

Anyway, still think Volker is an idiot. Also still think the writing on that particularly scene was good. Rush just didn't want anyone there. He wanted to work alone. So then Young jumped in and ordered Volker to come in. So then I understand how Rush is acting in that scene. And then Volker is just irritating. No, I don't like Volker, and clearly that is how it's meant to be as I interpret the portrayal and writing.

[wargrafix]

From this forum and threads, I would say the series really is a success so far. The discussions have been vast and ranged on different topics.

[jelgate]

From this forum and threads, I would say the series really is a success so far. The discussions have been vast and ranged on different topics.

That is a big mistake. You should never use fandom to measure success. The two tend to not agree. Look at Firefly

[AnonyMoose]

I watched "darkness" again on HULU, and I thought of some additional theories about the power loss.

We watched the passengers of the Destiny go through these 3 chronological theories of what is happening to them so far:

1. They depleted the ships remaining power prematurely through their arrival and inept actions and will all soon die in cold space.

2. The ship's autopilot, realizing that it has passengers, is deliberately taking them to a habitable planet (1 of the 3) as a last ditch effort, giving them a chance to live.

3. The ship miscalculated its trajectory around the gas giant planet and is now going to collide with a red dwarf star, killing everyone on board.

These 3 passenger theories produce a nice yo-yo effect of emotions, don't they... Nice job writers!

We viewers have been theorizing on these forums that the ship, having lost its main power prematurely, is possibly performing some type of "gliding" refueling maneuver through the edges of the gas giant planet and/or the red dwarf star, as it has probably done countless times before under full power.

I am putting my additional theories in a spoiler box in case I am even partially right and some of you want to remain surprised for this week's episode:

Spoiler:

My primary theory is that Destiny did not lose power (except life support and shields) involuntarily, but it deliberately powered down to go into a power stealth mode when coming out of FTL into a new solar system for its usual refueling run. Since it is much older technology than the Atlantis city ship (and puddle jumpers), it probably does not have the capability for invisible stealth mode (cloak). Power down stealth mode would make sense so that it doesn't attract the attention of potentially advanced technology species in each solar system that could detect its energy emissions and assume it to be a threat, attack it, board it, etc. It also wouldn't want the passengers to reactivate any systems that would disrupt its stealth mode, so it deactivates power to all passenger control terminals. The shuttle would have its own power supply, but might actually turn out to be in a "semi-locked-down" mode so that the passengers can't start its engines while Destiny is in stealth mode.

This second slight variation of my primary theory would also explain the battle damaged condition of the ship. Maybe Destiny was not programmed with power down stealth mode when originally launched, and it was attacked during one of its refueling runs. Its artificial intelligent autopilot later configured the power down stealth mode in all subsequent refueling runs to avoid future attacks.

I bet that the writers have put in more complexities and surprises than this, but what do you think about these additional theories so far?