When Eli stuck his hand in the gate

[Encoder]

The movie includes a lot of inconsistencies with the series that we have to ignore. In the movie, Abydos is "on the other side of the known universe" (in the Kalium Galaxy), while in SG-1 Abydos is right next door.

If the SGU folks ever get to the Kalium Galaxy, it would be a cool homage to the movie.

Yeah definitely some doosies there but I don't think that we can discount this particular item.

[Pat1487]

The movie includes a lot of inconsistencies with the series that we have to ignore. In the movie, Abydos is "on the other side of the known universe" (in the Kalium Galaxy), while in SG-1 Abydos is right next door.

If the SGU folks ever get to the Kalium Galaxy, it would be a cool homage to the movie.

I had forgotten about that
And yeah, that would be great to have them in the Kalium galaxy

I dont even consider the first movie cannon to the series because of so many inconsistencies between them

Regardless, the gate is a standard MW gate, same rules apply, plus seriously, it's our Alpha gate, we've used it thousands of times, the same rules still apply for it.

So what happens if you put your arm in and take it out, does the gate dematerialise your arm then rematerialise when you pull it back out?

It makes more sense that the gate will buffer you (the great blue yonder that Daniel opens his eyes in) so that it doesn't have to do all that materialisation.

Read what Major Tyler said

And if you rematerialized at the destination gate while half way through you wouldnt be able to pull whatever is on the other side back through

When weve clearly seen things being pulled out of an outgoing wormhole while its partially in

Matter can only travel one way, and once rematerialized on the other side its matter and therefore cant go back

[entspeak]

For this reason radio signels will not prevent a gate from shutting down since they are not stored in the gates buffer untill the whole signal is recived (the gate is smart and knows it can reintergrate the signal as its sent) Its protcols apply to physical objects.

The problem with this is that in SG-1, Carter states explicitly that a radio signal will keep a wormhole open. So long as anything is coming through and there is enough power on the originating side, it stays open.

[Major Tyler]

The problem with this is that in SG-1, Carter states explicitly that a radio signal will keep a wormhole open. So long as anything is coming through and there is enough power on the originating side, it stays open.

I think that Destiny is advanced enough that if it's programming says to shut down the Stargate and jump to FTL, and the only thing stopping it is a radio signal, it can override the hold signal.

I think it would have been a cooler ending if the gate or Destiny sent a pulse back through the gate to try and clear the obstruction (Eli). I imagine it would be really painful, but if Eli held on through that (screaming in agony, of course), I'm sure he would have earned some (more) respect from the "crew," especially Greer and Scott.

[Arga]

sorry... what does FTL stands for?

[Major Tyler]

sorry... what does FTL stands for?

Plus rapide que la lumière.

[Dain]

Judging by the way the ship was shuddering, I doubt Destiny would have waited for anything other than a person before taking off. I still think my theory about the FTL capacitors needing to be discharged makes the most sense.

My pet theories about the matter:

1. The Stargate previously also remained open if someone was merely holding a lifeless object into it (e.g. the Jumper). So Eli could have achieved the same result by merely sticking his conveniently aquired pistol into the Stargate (which would have also been ironic - he could have used the pistol to save the team without firing a shot or risking any bodily harm).
Of course, perhaps the Destiny wouldn't have waited if the Stargate told it that it was only being held up because of inorganic matter (in the case the supposedly existing security program is sophisticated enough to detect something like that).

2. We already saw the Destiny entering and leaving Hyperspace and that went way smoother than the violent shuddering we saw here. So it cannot have been part of the regular "Waiting to jump to Hyperspace" routine and must have been somehow directly connected to the stalling action at the Stargate.

3. The vibrations and the engine sounds on Destiny during the scene should indicate that something else than a simple computer program was preventing the ship from leaving. After all, if a security protocol detected that the Stargate was still open and therefore shut down the Hyperdrive, then why was the ship shaking as if some of the engines were already running but it was being physically restrained from moving in a rather violent fashion?

4. It has been mentioned several times in the episode that even the power needed to run the Stargate is in short supply. So I doubt that the ship is capable of somehow harnessing an infinite amount of energy to keep its drive systems working (the discharging capacitors-theory).
Still, it is of course entirely possible that the power supply for the Stargate (which we know is running very short and isn't increasing currently) and whatever keeps the hyperdrive running isn't connected to each other. It's far too common in SF that for some reason all ship systems are physically wired together and everything can be swapped around at will even if it doesn't make any sense at all.

Conclusion:
My personal pet theory is that there weren't any security protocols at work which kept the Destiony from flying away. I think that perhaps the ship simply doesn't generate enough power anymore to keep a Stargate open and run its drive systems at the same time. The Hyperdrive wasn't receiving enough power as long as the Stargate was active and therefore stuttered ineffectively, which produced the menacing vibrations and engine sounds in the ship.

The flaw:
If my theory is right (which it doesn't have to be, of course), then the power supplies for Stargate and Hyperdrive would be connected, which would mean that the ship is nearing the end of its voyage, since the remaining energy for Stargate operations was stated to be very low and will be further drained by the Hyperdrive.
In that case it would be mightily convenient that after a hundred thousand years of independent travelling a human crew just happens to appear on the ship shortly before it can both finally lose its engine power as well as its atmosphere and who knows what else.

[garhkal]

hehe, sorry, my problem is, Rush could have done it from his side as well, tho he'd rather risk Eli's arm than test it himself!

Maybe Rush did not know of that, and thought it might work...
Hence why he had Eli do it.

[aretood2]

Maybe Rush did not know of that, and thought it might work...
Hence why he had Eli do it.

could you blame him? I mean really? It may have been a little selfish, ok a hole lot selfish but he ain't no Carter!

[Count]

Judging by the way the ship was shuddering, I doubt Destiny would have waited for anything other than a person before taking off. I still think my theory about the FTL capacitors needing to be discharged makes the most sense.

Going from that, I'd more likely stick with the ship trying to FTL but the gate actually interferring with the forming of an FTL window. As i stated in my previous post, we know gate can interfer with ships (Asgard beams cant lock onto and open gate) and produce massive EM fields.

Hyperspace works on opening a window into subspace and pushing the ship, if FTL works on a different principle like forming a bubble around the ship and going then the gate would effectively disrupt that with it's energy output.

All we need to take from the 12 hour shakes the Destiny is that it was trying to leave but couldn't. The Destiny we've seen 3 times lurches into FTL instantly, it doesnt have any sort of feedback or vibration like we did at the 12 hour mark, it just goes. So this vibration was not normal operations.

[Marsuvees]

Or going to a city and being the straw that breaks the camel's ZPM back.

My pet theories about the matter:

1. The Stargate previously also remained open if someone was merely holding a lifeless object into it (e.g. the Jumper). So Eli could have achieved the same result by merely sticking his conveniently aquired pistol into the Stargate (which would have also been ironic - he could have used the pistol to save the team without firing a shot or risking any bodily harm).
Of course, perhaps the Destiny wouldn't have waited if the Stargate told it that it was only being held up because of inorganic matter (in the case the supposedly existing security program is sophisticated enough to detect something like that).

2. We already saw the Destiny entering and leaving Hyperspace and that went way smoother than the violent shuddering we saw here. So it cannot have been part of the regular "Waiting to jump to Hyperspace" routine and must have been somehow directly connected to the stalling action at the Stargate.

3. The vibrations and the engine sounds on Destiny during the scene should indicate that something else than a simple computer program was preventing the ship from leaving. After all, if a security protocol detected that the Stargate was still open and therefore shut down the Hyperdrive, then why was the ship shaking as if some of the engines were already running but it was being physically restrained from moving in a rather violent fashion?

4. It has been mentioned several times in the episode that even the power needed to run the Stargate is in short supply. So I doubt that the ship is capable of somehow harnessing an infinite amount of energy to keep its drive systems working (the discharging capacitors-theory).
Still, it is of course entirely possible that the power supply for the Stargate (which we know is running very short and isn't increasing currently) and whatever keeps the hyperdrive running isn't connected to each other. It's far too common in SF that for some reason all ship systems are physically wired together and everything can be swapped around at will even if it doesn't make any sense at all.

Conclusion:
My personal pet theory is that there weren't any security protocols at work which kept the Destiony from flying away. I think that perhaps the ship simply doesn't generate enough power anymore to keep a Stargate open and run its drive systems at the same time. The Hyperdrive wasn't receiving enough power as long as the Stargate was active and therefore stuttered ineffectively, which produced the menacing vibrations and engine sounds in the ship.

The flaw:
If my theory is right (which it doesn't have to be, of course), then the power supplies for Stargate and Hyperdrive would be connected, which would mean that the ship is nearing the end of its voyage, since the remaining energy for Stargate operations was stated to be very low and will be further drained by the Hyperdrive.
In that case it would be mightily convenient that after a hundred thousand years of independent travelling a human crew just happens to appear on the ship shortly before it can both finally lose its engine power as well as its atmosphere and who knows what else.

[Pat1487]

My pet theories about the matter:
<Cut for length>

You bring up a good point

The physical strain of the ship indicates it wasnt just software related

So Eli's hand held the gate open past its time (with the gate software detecting something was in the buffer)

Then the ships FTL drive fired up

The power that the gate and the FTL drive requires is just too great for the power source to handle, and so it strains

Makes sense to me

Idk about the power source running out of power, it could be that the power source just isnt capable of outputting that much power at 1 time

[Count]

You bring up a good point

The physical strain of the ship indicates it wasnt just software related

So Eli's hand held the gate open past its time (with the gate software detecting something was in the buffer)

Then the ships FTL drive fired up

The power that the gate and the FTL drive requires is just too great for the power source to handle, and so it strains

Makes sense to me

Idk about the power source running out of power, it could be that the power source just isnt capable of outputting that much power at 1 time

I dont think it was a power issue TBH, Ancient technology has a habit of dealing with power issues by doing stupid things such as turning off shields or life support, not by trying to activate both devices at once and hope for the best. I really honestly think the gate itself kept the FTL window from opening.

[Pat1487]

I dont think it was a power issue TBH, Ancient technology has a habit of dealing with power issues by doing stupid things such as turning off shields or life support, not by trying to activate both devices at once and hope for the best. I really honestly think the gate itself kept the FTL window from opening.

Why wouldnt the FTL drive be able to initiate with the gate open, whats stopping it from working with an open gate

Offer another explanation if you present a different theory

[Count]

Why wouldnt the FTL drive be able to initiate with the gate open, whats stopping it from working with an open gate

Offer another explanation if you present a different theory

I have, TWICE, read back a page or two.