Disrespectful uniforms and Greer's rank

[s09119]

My first beef is with how the producers have decided to dress the members of this expedition. I don't know too much about the regulations for Air Force ACUs but I know full well that the way they showed people wearing the Marine uniforms is not just out of code but outright disrespectful. Wearing the blouse unbuttoned is bad enough but to wear the cover backwards? These items sport the Eagle, Globe and Anchor; while that may not seem important to most people, to those of us that bled and sweated through the training to earn the right to wear those uniforms, it holds a lot of meaning.

My other accuracy issue is the ridiculous idea that Greer would be a Master Sergeant. He's in his late 20s/early 30s at best. There is no way in hell he would be at that rank. I might believe Gunnery Sergeant but most likely he'd be a Staff Sergeant...up until whatever he did to get thrown in the brig. That would mean a lot of rank, no two ways about it. Realistically he should be a Sergeant or probably a Corporal after his punishment.

Does anyone really care? Doubtful. There are few of us that would but for a spinoff of a show that at least tried to get the military stuff accurate, this one fails miserably.

So let me get this straight; you're upset that the fictional and top-secret international organization that runs the Stargate Program designed unique uniforms for the people stationed at the Icarus Base...

...okay...?

[FeloniousMonk]

The Marines are the Navy's policemen right? I seem to remember a quote from a US President saying that

Sure would be better than those fat, lazy private contractors that don't even know what the abbreviations on a CAC mean!

[Naonak]

The in-universe explanation doesn't make up for the bad production decision.

Wha...?

As others have said, they're civilians, they don't know how to wear stuff, and in that situation it probably isn't gonna be high on the military personnel's priorities.

Hell, if anything, it's a good production decision, as it adds another touch of realism.

[reddevil18]

I work as an extra on SGU. I'm one of the marines.

I hate you!

[FeloniousMonk]

is calling military uniform shirts blouses an american thing? i always thought a blouse was a womens shirt-buttons on the left, while mens shirts-buttons on the right are just shirts

We have different names for just about everything. It's absurd.

over 900 posts...im not that new....i was making fun of the people who just cant handle a tiny, miniscule thing.

I meant to science fiction fandom in general.

I think it's possible that he could be a master sgt... ever heard of combat comissions (okay, that's so the wrong terminology, but it's basically getting promoted while in a war/warzone). It can happen, and has in the past.

A commission is, be definition, to an officer rank. You're talking about a meritorious promotion but at E-8, the second highest enlisted rank possible, it doesn't happen quickly enough for someone in his 20s to hit that level.

Why does it have to be stated specifically? It was obvious that that is exactly what happened based on what we saw in the first episode.

You're right, it doesn't have to be. Would have been better had they just used ABUs and avoided the whole issue. I don't know if the Air Force guys care as much about theirs.

In my opinion you are correct with this. I work as an extra on SGU. I'm one of the marines. Before every single take the wardrobe crew check to make sure we're in proper order. I remember during one scene I forgot to do up the chin strap on my helmet and because it was a busy day with lots of extras it got missed (on SGU details like that rarely get missed, and maybe I undid the strap to scratch an itch when the cameras were already rolling so it was my bad regardless). Well, let me tell you, before we could roll for the next take one of the producers came rushing on to set to make sure my strap was done up properly for the next take!!

Keep in mind, we are in the midst of a crisis. All we have to wear is what we wore onto the ship, and maybe a few other articles of clothing that we have to share amongst the survivors. While the marines are on duty, we're dressed properly. Now I can only speak for myself, but in my opinion, the writers, producers, directors, and the entire crew all do their best to show complete respect for the military during the making of this show. I've heard crew say things to us like, "A marine would NEVER do that." I remember one time while I was getting my hair cut for the show noticing the US Marine hair cut guidelines/policy up front and center at the hair cut stations.

That's comforting to know.

[FeloniousMonk]

US Marine corp? Your not the only marines out there, I was talking about the British Marine Commandos. Our marine corp is alot older than yours, Just thought id say it I hate how some people say the US was the first modern marine corp.

Mea culpa, I misunderstood and thought you were American Navy. Rest assured, the history we learn is very clear about our origins.

Not when that order contradicts standing orders and rules of engagements. If an officer told me to shoot a child who is unarmed and has no intention of commiting a agrssive act I will sure as hell not shoot him and not let anyone else shoot him not even if the Admiral of the fleet order it himself directly.

I will decide who I shoot so when I do shoot someone it is the right thing to do.

Not shooting a child is one thing, not refusing to lower your weapon is a violation of a direct order and cause for court martial. At least in our system. And technically, in our system refusing to shoot that child is also a chargable offense. If the officer is deemed wacko the charges would be dropped but it's not like innocent looking children haven't blown up troops with C4 strapped to their chests a number of times...

[FeloniousMonk]

if they wanted digital camo they should have just used arid CADPAT and through some marine badges on it since the marines derived MARPAT from cadpat in the final stages. CADPAT is certainly easier to get a hold of, and arguably superior.

the point is, give it a break its a tv show.

I challenge that on both counts. CADPAT may have been the first released but MARPAT was developed independently. And as for superior, that's very arguable.

[FeloniousMonk]

I don't have much of a problem with the show and what it displayed, the EGA was removed from the covers (hat) on both Eli and the girl that was abandoned. It seems along with all the other covers as well.

The thing is MARPAT, by definition, has the EGA embedded into the pattern. That's supposedly why it had to be copyrighted and the regulations so much more strict.

As for the rank, yes, MSgt in the USMC is hard to pull off. A GySgt would have been easier by being 27. The writers should have chosen a non terminal rank. Had he been just a little older I could have went for it whole heartily though, I've seen <37 year old MGySgts so some do progress rather quickly.

Agreed.

As for his conduct towards the LT, since he's a MSgt and no doubt then been around and seen some things, no, he doesn't just snap to and yell AYE AYE Sir! towards some boot LT.

I don't know your background, but I've seen plenty of boot Lts that get snatched up, yelled at and in some cases more for getting out of line with high ranking enlisted Marines. Especially in Iraq.

A boot LT, that's not even a Marine, will never tell a USMC MSgt what to do.

Not expecting him to stand at parade rest when talking to him or anything but a "sir" every once in a while would make it seem a bit more believable. I imagine even THE SgtMaj will tear down a boot second john from OCS and throw in a "sir" at the end for added effect.

[FeloniousMonk]

So let me get this straight; you're upset that the fictional and top-secret international organization that runs the Stargate Program designed unique uniforms for the people stationed at the Icarus Base...

...okay...?

Because I'm sure you've never nitpicked anything about any sci fi show. Ever.

And my problem, again, is with the production decision, not the in-universe explanation.

[FeloniousMonk]

Wha...?

As others have said, they're civilians, they don't know how to wear stuff, and in that situation it probably isn't gonna be high on the military personnel's priorities.

Hell, if anything, it's a good production decision, as it adds another touch of realism.

It's not a good production decision when it's disrespectful to the people and organization it's portraying. Again, writers and producers are happy to capitalize off the military, make money off our image, but rarely take the time and effort to give the respect deserved. If they wanted to show off camo so bad they could have used something else that doesn't actually break a regulation that those of us who wear the uniform are required to follow.

[knowles2]

Let's also ignore the fact that wearing any hat backwards - especially in the desert - completely negates the design of the bill intended to shade one's face.

If they had stated that in the show, I would buy it. But there's no reason to believe that's why they were given mismatched uniforms, especially since they didn't need to be wearing them in the first place. The producers just wanted digital camo on screen to make the show look more modern.

Or may be the military escorts did not want them standing out a like a saw thumb if they did come against hostiles and so they did the best they could manage to put some camouflage on them. It called working with what you got, which from what I can see is not a lot, it what the military, well at least the British military are taught to do in basic training. The last thing you want to worry about if you going into a potential hostile area is whether you civilians are wearing the clothes the right way.

[FeloniousMonk]

Or may be the military escorts did not want them standing out a like a saw thumb if they did come against hostiles and so they did the best they could manage to put some camouflage on them. It called working with what you got, which from what I can see is not a lot, it what the military, well at least the British military are taught to do in basic training. The last thing you want to worry about if you going into a potential hostile area is whether you civilians are wearing the clothes the right way.

Considering Scott's wardrobe, not buying it. If they had actually given that thought they would have either taken the time to change Scott's uniform or just said "Yeah but this idiot Lieutenant is going out there in black so what's the point?"

[Major Tyler]

Considering Scott's wardrobe, not buying it. If they had actually given that thought they would have either taken the time to change Scott's uniform or just said "Yeah but this idiot Lieutenant is going out there in black so what's the point?"

Yeah, I'm not in the military or anything, but a black uniform on a planet full of white sand just doesn't sound very tactically responsible.

[knowles2]

Why would they have Canadian uniforms on a U.S. base?

Who said it purely a US base, yes the US may of contribute 1.3 billion towards the cost which to be honest does not sound nearly enough for such a base, the f302s alone would hundreds of millions. Which means there were other countries involve. The Wray look like a Chinese representative and the lead scientist is British, even the gate dialler seem British.
I suspect that most of the funding for this project came from international sources. In fact just a few years ago the US was unwilling to have bases off world, now we seen at least three permanent bases of operations, other than for mining. An considering that the US only finance a tiny fraction of the SGC budget we can presume that the US is probably a minority stake holder at best in the Icarus base.

I am guesting that the rumour of Wray power play in future episodes will be interesting to see the politics play out.

[reddevil18]

Who said it purely a US base, yes the US may of contribute 1.3 billion towards the cost which to be honest does not sound nearly enough for such a base, the f302s alone would hundreds of millions. Which means there were other countries involve. The Wray look like a Chinese representative and the lead scientist is British, even the gate dialler seem British.

What makes you think the 302s were built specifically for Icarus and not just reassigned from a different base?
Wray is quite obviously not Chinese. Just because she has Chinese heritage doesn't mean she's actually Chinese, dude.
And Riley is also obviously not British.