Why is the IOA still allowed to exist?

[knowles2]

the SGC has beam jamming technology. the many-baals episode, the Shroud, to name a few

Technically they have not jammed the beams but they jammed the tracking devices Go'uld an Earth version of the Asgard technology need to be able to lock onto people. The weakness is that they can only block certain strength signals, demonstrated by Baal. This should have change since the we obtain the Asgard database. I be surprise if the Hammond needs location beakens to lock onto people anymore. Earth other ships may not have receive h
the upgrades yet.

The Wraith are the only ones that have block the beams directly without using shields.

[Flyboy]

Just a point I raised in another thread:

The IOA IS like the NATO Council. It is a body of several Permanent Representatives from member states who are usually senior civil servants. The NATO council, much like the IOA make decisions and decide on policy. Both are an international body goverened by civilians. And I'm sure we'll all agree that NATO actually functions well unlike the UN (which DOES btw have some redeeming features). The difference between NATO and the IOA is simple. NATO's military operations are undertaken by troops from contributing nations, whilst ultimatly, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe - who seems to always be a bloody US General is in direct command of all the forces. In contrast, General O'Neill appears to play this role, but instead of the Military element of the IOA being entirely multinational with US dominance, it is simply the US Homeworld Command which includes ships and the SGC - pretty much all of the military elements. Chances are this will change to become more multi national, but the relationship is exactly the same.

Bottom line, the US does NOT run the Stargate programme, it runs the military dimension of Homeworld Security - which for the moment includes military expeditions via the gate.


People don't start arguing to dissolve the NATO Council, why dissolve the IOA?

[knowles2]

Just a point I raised in another thread:

The IOA IS like the NATO Council. It is a body of several Permanent Representatives from member states who are usually senior civil servants. The NATO council, much like the IOA make decisions and decide on policy. Both are an international body goverened by civilians. And I'm sure we'll all agree that NATO actually functions well unlike the UN (which DOES btw have some redeeming features). The difference between NATO and the IOA is simple. NATO's military operations are undertaken by troops from contributing nations, whilst ultimatly, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe - who seems to always be a bloody US General is in direct command of all the forces. In contrast, General O'Neill appears to play this role, but instead of the Military element of the IOA being entirely multinational with US dominance, it is simply the US Homeworld Command which includes ships and the SGC - pretty much all of the military elements. Chances are this will change to become more multi national, but the relationship is exactly the same.

Bottom line, the US does NOT run the Stargate programme, it runs the military dimension of Homeworld Security - which for the moment includes military expeditions via the gate.


People don't start arguing to dissolve the NATO Council, why dissolve the IOA?

I think there a few people who argue for NATO to be dissolved after the soviet union disbanded.

But Nato is one of the few International organisations which functions well an now you mention it the IOA structure probably share a lot of similarities with NATO.

To be fair the reason it ususally American general is because they are usually providing most of the man power for nato mission. This is because most nations in Europe simply does not spend enough on there own military to enable them to deploy large amount of troops in theatre because they believe that the US will come to there rescue or they are covered by the UK an France nuclear missiles an Armies. In many ways they are right, but they are still a bunch of free loaders.

[KEK]

Pretty sure the commander before last of all the NATO forces in Afghanistan was a British general.

[Deevil]

I

Interesting?
Yes as I didn't say Power=Force and clearly you heard it...I would find that interesting.

Power is the ability to do work.
Force is the influence that produces change.

Interesting, yes. The IOA has that power, obviously. They have been exercising that power for years.

It doesn't?
Why not?

The Asgard never gave them open slather to reproducing all tech before the season finale of SG1. They only had access to a small amount of tech, therefore the hologram cannot help them reproduce all tech.

Subjective:
It doesn't have to be true if you don't want it to be.

Back at ya mate.

[Flyboy]

I think there a few people who argue for NATO to be dissolved after the soviet union disbanded.

Yes but that's because there was question as to what it's mandate should be without the Soviet Union.

To be fair the reason it ususally American general is because they are usually providing most of the man power for nato mission. This is because most nations in Europe simply does not spend enough on there own military to enable them to deploy large amount of troops in theatre because they believe that the US will come to there rescue or they are covered by the UK an France nuclear missiles an Armies. In many ways they are right, but they are still a bunch of free loaders.

Ermmmm Yes and No. The problem is more deep rooted than that. It's due to Cold War structuring that they've never recovered from - particularly with regards to their airforces. But that's another discussion, one which I actually did my undergrad disseration on.

Pretty sure the commander before last of all the NATO forces in Afghanistan was a British general.

That would be the Commander of 'ISAF' - International Security Assistance Force, as opposed to 'Supreme Allied Commander Europe'.

[Detox]

Interesting. I've heard the opposite arguement in terms of the reason for the rise in sexual crimes in relation to American peace keeping troops.

Clearly those arguments you've heard are full of ****.

UN Peacekeeping comprises mostly out of Africa nation troops, EU troops and Canadian troops.

The US does not provide that much to UN Peacekeeping forces.

[EllieVee]

The US does not provide that much to UN Peacekeeping forces.

Yes, we know.

[Gaeth]

I see a problem, mass riots and serious economic problems once the SG program is released to the general public. The US would need evn more financial help.

Also, the US just doesn't have the money, period, to run the program... to build the ships, to pay the man power etc etc etc. Not to mention that the US doesn't have the man power to run all the bases and the research facilities.

If the US of the Stargate world wanted to go public with the stargate and go all out imperialistic, they could make a lot of money off the SGC. Think of all those planets with untapped fossil fuels, lumber, iron, uranium, farmland, and that's not including the ones with naquadah and trinium. With the program going public it would be a mixed blessing though. People of all stripes would be furious about the secrecy. So beyond fighting the rest of the world the U.S. government would have to tie up resources containing its own population. On the other hand, with the secrecy dropped more scientists and soldiers would be brought into the program. That would decrease manpower shortages. If they wanted to go really evil they could strike a deal with the Lucian Alliance to buy and distribute casa to other nations' populations (secretly). That would hamper resistance. They might even be able to buy off some Alliance members and have them provide military support. Basically if the U.S. government wanted to use the Stargate imperialistically, they'd have more than enough resources to do so. I'd like to think it would only be a matter of time before the American people overthrew such a government, with foreign support of course. Maybe even the Tok'Ra or Free Jaffa Nation might help out to overthrow an interstellar U.S. empire.

This is all very fanciful but it would make for a neat alternate reality, maybe even a Stargate novel. Perhaps if the trust took over the U.S. government and military we could have such a scenario.

Nice to see that American arrogance in place. Hey who cares about morality, just form the American Empire in space, and vaporize any one on Earth who disagrees with you. I mean what’s the death of a few million every so often on earth if American “values” can be spread to the galaxy.

We should all remember that this is more a discussion about what *could* be done rather than what *should* be done, at least for my part. I mean obviously this is all horribly immoral. The IOA has its faults but no mater what I think there should be international cooperation on the Stargate program. If extraterrestrial threats wouldn't unite us I don't know what would.

[thekillman]

in SG terms, a better question is,

WHY is the USAF still allowed so much control over the Programme?

clearly, in order to keep the entire programme running as smooth as possible, the IOA allows the USAF so much control, because they are the most experienced, and the IOA learns from that. in time, the IOA will become increasingly powerful and influential. they have a major say over the 304 programme (they fund large parts of it), the SGC (they fund major parts of it) and what not.

if it was not for compromise politics, the USAF would not be in control of anything. the tech sharing treaty was brought into being, so america would retain a good portion of control, while the other nations got tech. in a good american fashion, they only share non-millitary technologies

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

If the US of the Stargate world wanted to go public with the stargate and go all out imperialistic, they could make a lot of money off the SGC. Think of all those planets with untapped fossil fuels, lumber, iron, uranium, farmland, and that's not including the ones with naquadah and trinium. With the program going public it would be a mixed blessing though. People of all stripes would be furious about the secrecy. So beyond fighting the rest of the world the U.S. government would have to tie up resources containing its own population. On the other hand, with the secrecy dropped more scientists and soldiers would be brought into the program. That would decrease manpower shortages. If they wanted to go really evil they could strike a deal with the Lucian Alliance to buy and distribute casa to other nations' populations (secretly). That would hamper resistance. They might even be able to buy off some Alliance members and have them provide military support. Basically if the U.S. government wanted to use the Stargate imperialistically, they'd have more than enough resources to do so. I'd like to think it would only be a matter of time before the American people overthrew such a government, with foreign support of course. Maybe even the Tok'Ra or Free Jaffa Nation might help out to overthrow an interstellar U.S. empire.

This is all very fanciful but it would make for a neat alternate reality, maybe even a Stargate novel. Perhaps if the trust took over the U.S. government and military we could have such a scenario.







We should all remember that this is more a discussion about what *could* be done rather than what *should* be done, at least for my part. I mean obviously this is all horribly immoral. The IOA has its faults but no mater what I think there should be international cooperation on the Stargate program. If extraterrestrial threats wouldn't unite us I don't know what would.

Indeed. While people like O’Neill, Jackson and Carter are in the programme the likelihood of this happening is zilch. Even if someone tried to remove the IOA to simply have an imperialistic America backed up by alien technology there are enough people in the Stargate program who would fight to prevent this.

[Deevil]

Indeed. While people like O’Neill, Jackson and Carter are in the programme the likelihood of this happening is zilch. Even if someone tried to remove the IOA to simply have an imperialistic America backed up by alien technology there are enough people in the Stargate program who would fight to prevent this.

Yes, because above all these people believe in Freedom, and they wont support a utilitarian rule, no matter whose government is supporting it. And it wont make them any less patriotic to do so, because sometimes the most patriotism you can show is in rallying against your own government.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Yes, because above all these people believe in Freedom, and they wont support a utilitarian rule, no matter whose government is supporting it. And it wont make them any less patriotic to do so, because sometimes the most patriotism you can show is in rallying against your own government.

So really this whole thread is moot anyway. The IOA may suck but its better than the alternative and the current people in the Stargate programme aren’t going to let the sgc be abused for the sake of one nation’s power.

[Saquist]

Clearly those arguments you've heard are full of ****.

Clearly, would imply beyond doubt.
Since I have read on the UN I have seen no article stating the US does not maintain troops in the UN. So the clarity hasn't been shared.

In other words: This has been an assumption of an implicit rather than an explicit kind.

Interesting, yes. The IOA has that power, obviously. They have been exercising that power for years.

Given power.
Which exist on in the presence of the current system. The destruction of the system would leave the IOA with out the...ability to effect it's ...influence.

The Asgard never gave them open slather to reproducing all tech before the season finale of SG1. They only had access to a small amount of tech, therefore the hologram cannot help them reproduce all tech.

"Slather", really...

THOR: Everything we have and know.
THOR: Everything. *They all stare at each other* All our most current technology…all our knowledge.

CARTER: *annoyed* I don't know that yet. However…with only a slight modification to the beaming technology we have a matter converter that will literally allow us to manufacture food…water…oxygen…and pretty much anything we need.

It's pretty conclusive.
The technology was given to an American ship...
IF they decided to take that technology for their own, then the advances are almost without limit and so would end the real need for political affiliations.

Back at ya mate.

!Boomerang!

[Deevil]

CARTER: *annoyed* I don't know that yet. However…with only a slight modification to the beaming technology we have a matter converter that will literally allow us to manufacture food…water…oxygen…and pretty much anything we need.

It's pretty conclusive.

What episode did this happen in?

We know nothing about this tech in the long term, and thus we cannot make any conclusive statement that it has and can be replicated. I don't see it as a solution to the US pissing off the world and loosing their resources.

Not that that would ever happen anyway, because no one in the Program that we have met would let it get that far.

As for your opinion on the power of the IOA - I'm gonna sum it up with a hearty I disagree. We have both presented our arguments here, there is no need to go through them again.