What's your opinion now about SGU ?

[Magnecite]

This may sound weird but I have this recurrent echo when I'm watching SGU that it's trying to be Enterprise, the prequel. That idea that wasn't efficiently delivered was of a first starship going into unchartered waters with clunky, stick it together engineering. Enterprise ended up more glossy than the original but looking at the characters, the commander who doubts his mission or ability to live up to expectations, his loyal sidekick, the military over diplomacy, it certainly has similarities. I would put SGU into a category of cobbled together Startrek/BSG hybrid than Stargate. I don't actually think SGU is all bad, I just think it's not part of a universe the Stargate universe that prided itself on characters with solid values. I think this is why both Startrek Enterprise and SGU strike a sour note, they are struggling against the stable that spawned them and being neither true to their heritage or effectively original.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

This may sound weird but I have this recurrent echo when I'm watching SGU that it's trying to be Enterprise, the prequel. That idea that wasn't efficiently delivered was of a first starship going into unchartered waters with clunky, stick it together engineering. Enterprise ended up more glossy than the original but looking at the characters, the commander who doubts his mission or ability to live up to expectations, his loyal sidekick, the military over diplomacy, it certainly has similarities. I would put SGU into a category of cobbled together Startrek/BSG hybrid than Stargate. I don't actually think SGU is all bad, I just think it's not part of a universe the Stargate universe that prided itself on characters with solid values. I think this is why both Startrek Enterprise and SGU strike a sour note, they are struggling against the stable that spawned them and being neither true to their heritage or effectively original.

Prided itself with values? Stargate’s always been a little gray on morality, Jack betrayed 5th, the medical experiments on the wraith, Sheppard torturing and killing a wraith prisoner. I mean hell they had an entire episode in Atlantis where they were pulled over the coals by the local inhabitants for their behaviour and then got out of it by bribery!

The Star Trek Enterprise comparison doesn’t really work either, grey morality was never really a theme of that show, that area was more reserved for the earlier DS9, a show that very much went against the grain of previous Star Trek, showing a world that wasn’t a moral perfect utopia like the previous shows, I mean it had Sisco fabricating evidence to get the Romulans to fight the Dominion, hardly the most upright thing to do. Nonetheless DS9 was very successful.

Stargate has always had a little grey edge of morality in it, SGU simply increases that but there are still plenty of heroic and brave moments for the characters just as there were in previous shows.

[FromOutside]

Does that mean that Eli is defined by who he hasn't had sex with? It might be but at least he's done more than just be sexually frustrated.

Eli, Young and other men have much screen time that has nothing to do with their relationships including sex but shows their characters as persons, not just a random faces on board or on some planet doing whatever they do. They interact with other people and don't carry their relationships with them all the time. We get to know their other sides too.

[Aragon101]

Prided itself with values? Stargate’s always been a little gray on morality, Jack betrayed 5th, the medical experiments on the wraith, Sheppard torturing and killing a wraith prisoner. I mean hell they had an entire episode in Atlantis where they were pulled over the coals by the local inhabitants for their behaviour and then got out of it by bribery!

The Star Trek Enterprise comparison doesn’t really work either, grey morality was never really a theme of that show, that area was more reserved for the earlier DS9, a show that very much went against the grain of previous Star Trek, showing a world that wasn’t a moral perfect utopia like the previous shows, I mean it had Sisco fabricating evidence to get the Romulans to fight the Dominion, hardly the most upright thing to do. Nonetheless DS9 was very successful.

Stargate has always had a little grey edge of morality in it, SGU simply increases that but there are still plenty of heroic and brave moments for the characters just as there were in previous shows.

Let's call SGU Dark Grey because the times that morality goes for a washroom break are more focused on and have a longer impact and there's just waaay more of them. Overall, SGA and SG1 had a brighter grey where the dark stuff was overshadowed by the light. there were somewhat clear lines of good and bad guys and while the line did get fuzzy, it was never impossible to tell.

I wouldn't call SGU Enterprise either though.

i guess the difference in characters can be somewhat summed up in "SGU = Characters with Flaws trying to survive." whereas SG1 and SGA are more like "Characters surviving despite their flaws"

[natyanayaki]

i guess the difference in characters can be somewhat summed up in "SGU = Characters with Flaws trying to survive." whereas SG1 and SGA are more like "Characters surviving despite their flaws"

I agree with your post up until this quoted portion. I don't think SG1 (and probably the SGA) Characters are surviving despite their flaws, I just don't think "despite" is the accurate preposition. I would actually say that the SGU characters, are surviving despite the emphasized flaws, while the SG1 (and perhaps the SGA characters) are surviving because of their flaws. In SG1 at least, when examining the original 4 characters, there was a balance of flaws among the core characters, when working together...these flaws were often turned into attributes. Benefits and flaws were often un-catagorizable when the four of them worked as a unit, and they operated well despite their differences. The characters in SGU are often unable to see beyond their surface-level differences, and are then unable to reach a compromise. So I guess for me, the main difference between SGU and SG1, is that the characters in SG1 were able to compromise and balance each other out, while it's much harder for the SGU characters to do so...

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Let's call SGU Dark Grey because the times that morality goes for a washroom break are more focused on and have a longer impact and there's just waaay more of them. Overall, SGA and SG1 had a brighter grey where the dark stuff was overshadowed by the light. there were somewhat clear lines of good and bad guys and while the line did get fuzzy, it was never impossible to tell.

I wouldn't call SGU Enterprise either though.

i guess the difference in characters can be somewhat summed up in "SGU = Characters with Flaws trying to survive." whereas SG1 and SGA are more like "Characters surviving despite their flaws"

Indeed, I’m not saying that SGU isn’t greyer with morality than past shows, just that the idea of fuzzy morality was not something alien to stargate in the past, SGU simply develops on this.

[Aragon101]

I agree with your post up until this quoted portion. I don't think SG1 (and probably the SGA) Characters are surviving despite their flaws, I just don't think "despite" is the accurate preposition. I would actually say that the SGU characters, are surviving despite the emphasized flaws, while the SG1 (and perhaps the SGA characters) are surviving because of their flaws. In SG1 at least, when examining the original 4 characters, there was a balance of flaws among the core characters, when working together...these flaws were often turned into attributes. Benefits and flaws were often un-catagorizable when the four of them worked as a unit, and they operated well despite their differences. The characters in SGU are often unable to see beyond their surface-level differences, and are then unable to reach a compromise. So I guess for me, the main difference between SGU and SG1, is that the characters in SG1 were able to compromise and balance each other out, while it's much harder for the SGU characters to do so...

I like the way you said it better. I'm in no mood to discuss/argue/whatever. holiday season is kicking my ass and all i want is a nice row of Jager bombs

[natyanayaki]

I like the way you said it better. I'm in no mood to discuss/argue/whatever. holiday season is kicking my ass and all i want is a nice row of Jager bombs

Oh yes, I know how you feel! I'm not a big fan of arguing/discussing/etc either, but what you said really made me think...it was very interesting...LOL!

[Magnecite]

Prided itself with values? Stargate’s always been a little gray on morality, Jack betrayed 5th, the medical experiments on the wraith, Sheppard torturing and killing a wraith prisoner. I mean hell they had an entire episode in Atlantis where they were pulled over the coals by the local inhabitants for their behaviour and then got out of it by bribery!

The Star Trek Enterprise comparison doesn’t really work either, grey morality was never really a theme of that show, that area was more reserved for the earlier DS9, a show that very much went against the grain of previous Star Trek, showing a world that wasn’t a moral perfect utopia like the previous shows, I mean it had Sisco fabricating evidence to get the Romulans to fight the Dominion, hardly the most upright thing to do. Nonetheless DS9 was very successful.

Stargate has always had a little grey edge of morality in it, SGU simply increases that but there are still plenty of heroic and brave moments for the characters just as there were in previous shows.

I think you misread my reference to Enterprise, I was saying that the being in a spaceship, far away from support, taking up command in unique circumstances echoed the initial hype re the Startrek prequel. Essentially they are on a spaceship and the Stargate is now the equivalent of a transporter. Enterprise did have it's grey morality moments the Xindi arc was about that but that wasn't my point.

SG and SGA had there grey morality moments, I agree, the Wraith feeding solution was particularly dire. The characters did, however, come over as decent sorts sometimes faced with difficult choices.

SGU feels much more in tune with BSG. In BSG a group of survivors reflected a microcosm of the larger population they had left. This is true of SGU but there are even fewer of them and they all tend to be a faction on their own. They do have their heroic moments and this is when they are fighting an external force. When they're in-house their dynamic is best exemplified by the latest conflict between Rush/Young. Powerplays, deceit, pragmatism, corruption and lies. In SG and SGA they were often manoeuvering around this landscape but I could spot the good guys. Peers myopically at SGU.

[Viper_au]

I'm new here, but I thought I'd chip in with my opinion of SGU so far.

I'm a fairly dedicated Stargate fan (both SG-1 and SGA). I own all the DVDs, and re-watch episodes regularly, so I was looking forward to watching SGU ever since I first heard about it. The show is apparently only 1 episode behind the US on cable TV here in Australia, but I don't have access to that. Episode 3 aired this week on free-to-air TV instead, so that's where I'm up to...

...and to date I am far from impressed. In fact I have decided to stop watching it after just 3 episodes, and when you take into account that I consider myself a fan of the franchise, that is evidence of just much I dislike SGU. It isn't Stargate. The franchise has been successful as it has because of good scripts and likeable characters. SGU has neither. The characters whine about the slightest injustice or challenge they face, griping at one another or breaking down into tears. Ok, I can understand that they're facing dire circumstances, but what about the military leaders? They lack discipline, and they whine and lack direction just as much as the civilians on the ship. Everyone is selfish. There are no moments of levity, besides perhaps a few from Eli. In reference to a recent comment regarding the fact that the characters in SG-1 and SGA would overcome their emotional dilemmas to pursue heroic action, I agree, in some cases it seemed unrealistic. Sometimes your doubts overcome you and guide you into inaction. But in SGU it is the opposite. They spend so long griping about their hardships that it seems like they'll never achieve anything. Furthermore, I don't have the patience to deal with listening to their gripes in the meantime.

Perhaps I could feel empathy for these characters in light of the trials they face. Perhaps if there were an enemy worthy of such discord and confrontation exhibited by the characters on the show. But wait, there isn't! It's a serialised drama, so we're stuck on the ship as it jumps here and there. There is no overarching enemy which could provide a context for tension whilst tying story-lines together. Instead we're left with tension generated by discord amongst those trapped on the ship. They don't work well together. I get it. But where is it going? I was almost falling asleep from the slow pace of the first three episodes. The series is going absolutely nowhere.

To put it simply, SG-1 and SGA can be classified as belonging primarily to the sci-fi/action genre, with a little drama thrown in here and there.

SGU is entirely drama. What on earth were they thinking? Its like watching 'days of our lives' Stargate-style. The enjoyable elements of the franchise are gone, replaced by what in my estimation is a mind-numbingly boring serialised drama where I cannot even begin to identify and emphasise with the characters.

I'm sure you've heard others talk of these gripes before, as I'm also sure that quite a few of you hold to such thoughts yourself. But as a dedicated fan of the series I felt the need to vent my frustration at what is such a wasted opportunity. Did anyone else feel the same after watching the first 3-4 episodes, then develop a better view of the series as it went on? Or do things stay much the same for the remainder of the series?

Perhaps it seems a bit hypocritical for me to say I'm a dedicated Stargate fan and then stop watching a new show after just 3 episodes, but for me these first 3 episodes are in opposition to what Stargate is supposed to be. I didn't enjoy them at all, and if you can't enjoy a show when it just starts out (and particularly in the case of the pilot, which is supposed to draw people into watching a new show), then I think it is a lost cause.

[Viper_au]

Regarding my comment that SGU is "entirely drama", perhaps that isn't exactly the case. There are elements of sci-fi and action mixed in. That said, I think you get my point.

[Aragon101]

I'm new here, but I thought I'd chip in with my opinion of SGU so far.

I'm a fairly dedicated Stargate fan (both SG-1 and SGA). I own all the DVDs, and re-watch episodes regularly, so I was looking forward to watching SGU ever since I first heard about it. The show is apparently only 1 episode behind the US on cable TV here in Australia, but I don't have access to that. Episode 3 aired this week on free-to-air TV instead, so that's where I'm up to...

...and to date I am far from impressed. In fact I have decided to stop watching it after just 3 episodes, and when you take into account that I consider myself a fan of the franchise, that is evidence of just much I dislike SGU. It isn't Stargate. The franchise has been successful as it has because of good scripts and likeable characters. SGU has neither. The characters whine about the slightest injustice or challenge they face, griping at one another or breaking down into tears. Ok, I can understand that they're facing dire circumstances, but what about the military leaders? They lack discipline, and they whine and lack direction just as much as the civilians on the ship. Everyone is selfish. There are no moments of levity, besides perhaps a few from Eli. In reference to a recent comment regarding the fact that the characters in SG-1 and SGA would overcome their emotional dilemmas to pursue heroic action, I agree, in some cases it seemed unrealistic. Sometimes your doubts overcome you and guide you into inaction. But in SGU it is the opposite. They spend so long griping about their hardships that it seems like they'll never achieve anything. Furthermore, I don't have the patience to deal with listening to their gripes in the meantime.

Perhaps I could feel empathy for these characters in light of the trials they face. Perhaps if there were an enemy worthy of such discord and confrontation exhibited by the characters on the show. But wait, there isn't! It's a serialised drama, so we're stuck on the ship as it jumps here and there. There is no overarching enemy which could provide a context for tension whilst tying story-lines together. Instead we're left with tension generated by discord amongst those trapped on the ship. They don't work well together. I get it. But where is it going? I was almost falling asleep from the slow pace of the first three episodes. The series is going absolutely nowhere.

To put it simply, SG-1 and SGA can be classified as belonging primarily to the sci-fi/action genre, with a little drama thrown in here and there.

SGU is entirely drama. What on earth were they thinking? Its like watching 'days of our lives' Stargate-style. The enjoyable elements of the franchise are gone, replaced by what in my estimation is a mind-numbingly boring serialised drama where I cannot even begin to identify and emphasise with the characters.

I'm sure you've heard others talk of these gripes before, as I'm also sure that quite a few of you hold to such thoughts yourself. But as a dedicated fan of the series I felt the need to vent my frustration at what is such a wasted opportunity. Did anyone else feel the same after watching the first 3-4 episodes, then develop a better view of the series as it went on? Or do things stay much the same for the remainder of the series?

Perhaps it seems a bit hypocritical for me to say I'm a dedicated Stargate fan and then stop watching a new show after just 3 episodes, but for me these first 3 episodes are in opposition to what Stargate is supposed to be. I didn't enjoy them at all, and if you can't enjoy a show when it just starts out (and particularly in the case of the pilot, which is supposed to draw people into watching a new show), then I think it is a lost cause.

You're joining a large group, but equally, there's anotehr group that will take your entire essay here and give it the "Mystery Science Theater" job. taking point by point and either invalidating it, or arguing it.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion, and i've watched all ten episodes. The first enjoyment i got was in Darkness with TJ treating Rush, and then in "Light" with Camille and Young talking, and finally with "Time" which was an overall enjoyable if somewhat pretentious feeling episode (IMO of course).

Alot of people will enjoy the drama, and i can't fault them. I can only hope that given time and the pacing of the drama they're doing, by season 2 we've got a nice balance between action and drama

Oh and that thing with Scott and Chloe you're most obviously seeing? Yeah, it's not a red herring.

[MattSilver 3k]

I won't refute the whole thing, because I'd swear to my keyboard that I've seen the entire post before. It starts out like, "Oh, I watched SG-1 and Atlantis", then continues on, "And SGU is disappointing/not what I had hoped/not impressed". It definitely uses the word "whine" and maybe "soap opera" if the poster is feeling up to it. There's *****ing about the fact the characters aren't best friends yet. Chloe and Scott are almost always brought up as a negative factor, even if not named directly. The stones are poo-poohed on. Always makes a witty remark about BSG or Days Of Our Lives. Mentions of writers "dropping the ball" or something similar. Disbelief that SGU is a third SG-1 or SGA. Denial that SGU is part of the Stargate universe now.

Oh, and it'll end with "This is my opinion" blegh, as if they know that posts refuting their entirely original outings will be written...

[puddlejumperOZ]

so in other words BS

No I don't think so, even those squalid little rags are subject to legal action if they publish blatant untruths, even more so that they are owned by NewsCorp (Fox)

So here is to everybody

[nx01a]

A very merry Xmas to all, indeed! Merry X, Universe!

I won't refute the whole thing, because I'd swear to my keyboard that I've seen the entire post before. It starts out like, "Oh, I watched SG-1 and Atlantis", then continues on, "And SGU is disappointing/not what I had hoped/not impressed". It definitely uses the word "whine" and maybe "soap opera" if the poster is feeling up to it. There's *****ing about the fact the characters aren't best friends yet. Chloe and Scott are almost always brought up as a negative factor, even if not named directly. The stones are poo-poohed on. Always makes a witty remark about BSG or Days Of Our Lives. Mentions of writers "dropping the ball" or something similar. Disbelief that SGU is a third SG-1 or SGA. Denial that SGU is part of the Stargate universe now.
Oh, and it'll end with "This is my opinion" blegh, as if they know that posts refuting their entirely original outings will be written...

...and those who totally love it say what? "It's great!" "It's edgy!" "It's adult!" "It IS Stargate!" Over and over and over again.

Both pro- and anti-SGU camps are running around in circles and they will never meet.