"Stargate Universe" Discussion/Speculation (Spoilers)

[zoislk]

there is no greater evil than the indifference of good men...

"Every sweet has its sour; every evil its good."

So, basically what you're saying is that it's better to interfere with people's lives that don't concern you, than it is to let life play out as it may?

Say that you are a parent, and you see two kids beating eachother up. What do you do, do you go in and start throwing punches? No, you try to break it up. You don't get violent with people that are nowhere near your "equals", it just isn't right.

While I agree that it would be great if the Ancients actually intervened and helped bring peace, I don't think it's their place at all to enter into a war they aren't a part of and have no claim to. It isn't their place to bring balance to a war. It isn't their place to massacre those below them. It isn't their place to intervene in the affairs of others without need. "We" are losing the war ... but what's the justification for some beings of greater power to swoop in and demolish those below them? Would you ever want an adult to swoop in and starting beating the crap out of a kid, because your kid is in the fight? No, an adult has no place in a fight, except to try and stop it. They shouldn't get involved in it to where they are becoming violent and beating on some kid. That's essentially what you would be demanding, if you had the Ancients intervene in some war that they are not part of.


Peace is good, war is bad. But not all life can be good, and with the bad there is bound to be tragedy. Such is life.

Standing by and doing nothing is horrible when there is something on the level of genocide going on ... but that isn't the case. Yes, that could have been the case if Anubis succeeded in getting the weapon at Dakara, but that didn't happen -- in fact, an Ancient was the cause of that not happening. And that isn't the case with the Ori, as there is a difference between forcing religious views and killing those that don't convert and massacring an entire race simply because they are part of that race. Forcing your beliefs upon others is certainly a horrible thing, but it isn't an end and it isn't quite the atrocity. People can live "underground" if need be. It isn't enough justification for a parent to come in and beat up some kids.


If you ever want a kid to grow up, you'll have to let them discover for themselves at some point what it means to fail, what pain feels like, and what it means to overcome those things. A good parent certainly won't let their kids die, but at some point you have to "take off the kiddie gloves" and let them become their own person. You can't, and shouldn't, protect them forever.

[zoislk]

Has anyone noticed that the episodes of Stargate are kinda the same. I mean I like stargate but the show doesnt seem to resemble that of a real war or war like situation. In a war you find the enemy and attack or defend a position to prtect the teritory or population. I have yet to see an episode that has that kind of action. Ok the wraith control many ships and planets, how can a hundred people and 2 ships beat that, you cant! its just not possible! Also the stargate episodes seem to be that the team go to search for something, find it and somehow its destroyed or lost, and in the end the team has nothing meaning that there journey was a waste of time. I setle if some episodes were like that but not most. Last thing the ori and wraith are the same as the gould. The ori have people worship them as gods, the wraith fight each other for teritory as the gould did. Im not sure how they'll beat the wraith but i bet the ori will suffer a mass rebellion due to the SGC an the war will be over, like what happened with the jaffa.

So many things are so very similar in anything you look at ... but I see what you're saying.

Protecting/attacking territory/population: Since we only live on Earth/Atlantis, those are the things we protect ... we also see where we try to help protect our allies, and we see where our allies protect themselves. The Jaffa are a good example of that, as are some of the episodes with the Goa'uld or replicators. We may not see all that much of the trenchwars involved, but we get a sense of it. I don't think that part is really missing, and you couldn't really have a show including some sort of war without it. Unless I'm missing something about what you're saying...

Wraith severely outnumbering SGA: That's a big part of the story ... "we're" just this little group just now wandering out into a "world" unknown, where we face bad guys that far outnumber us since they've been out there for thousands of years, gaining power and such. Anyone can be defeated in battle, nothing is certain .. SGA has the advantage of some Ancient technology to help them fight the war, which gives them an advantage over the Wraith. That helps tip the odds slightly, but not entirely for sure. Just go with the motto "Against all odds" ...

You're right about the set-up of the enemies, it would kind of be nice to see something new (although that's what the replicators brought, which people didn't like too much ... especially the second time around ), maybe there will be a new dimension in the Wraith we see this season, or maybe the next featured enemy will be different. But I don't think it's a problem, because the fighting over power thing is very realistic, especially if you look back at medieval times, but the "worship me because I'm all powerful (and you're the source of my power)" thing could use some shaking up a bit, but again it's realistic -- governments and ruling bodies always gain and maintain their strength through the populous they control. The "worshiping" thing is the only difference, but the extreme dictators aren't far away from that.

[Zachr15]

One of the articles said Stargate Universe will deal with the ninth chevron on the stargate, if the eighth chevron goes to other galaxies what does the ninth do other universes?

[glennh73]

I havent kept up much with the info on SU but does anyone worry that it be sg1 just with new characters and still be based on earth and same old pine trees?

Im worried that this will be stargate command just without sg1 around.

I dont feel like reading through 52 pages here so does anyone have an idea what the show will be about?

[scirev]

I think we'll have to wait and see what actually comes out of the new show, whether it's universe travel, time travel or what ever.

[IrishPisano]

"Every sweet has its sour; every evil its good."

So, basically what you're saying is that it's better to interfere with people's lives that don't concern you, than it is to let life play out as it may?

Say that you are a parent, and you see two kids beating eachother up. What do you do, do you go in and start throwing punches? No, you try to break it up. You don't get violent with people that are nowhere near your "equals", it just isn't right.

While I agree that it would be great if the Ancients actually intervened and helped bring peace, I don't think it's their place at all to enter into a war they aren't a part of and have no claim to. It isn't their place to bring balance to a war. It isn't their place to massacre those below them. It isn't their place to intervene in the affairs of others without need. "We" are losing the war ... but what's the justification for some beings of greater power to swoop in and demolish those below them? Would you ever want an adult to swoop in and starting beating the crap out of a kid, because your kid is in the fight? No, an adult has no place in a fight, except to try and stop it. They shouldn't get involved in it to where they are becoming violent and beating on some kid. That's essentially what you would be demanding, if you had the Ancients intervene in some war that they are not part of.


Peace is good, war is bad. But not all life can be good, and with the bad there is bound to be tragedy. Such is life.

Standing by and doing nothing is horrible when there is something on the level of genocide going on ... but that isn't the case. Yes, that could have been the case if Anubis succeeded in getting the weapon at Dakara, but that didn't happen -- in fact, an Ancient was the cause of that not happening. And that isn't the case with the Ori, as there is a difference between forcing religious views and killing those that don't convert and massacring an entire race simply because they are part of that race. Forcing your beliefs upon others is certainly a horrible thing, but it isn't an end and it isn't quite the atrocity. People can live "underground" if need be. It isn't enough justification for a parent to come in and beat up some kids.


If you ever want a kid to grow up, you'll have to let them discover for themselves at some point what it means to fail, what pain feels like, and what it means to overcome those things. A good parent certainly won't let their kids die, but at some point you have to "take off the kiddie gloves" and let them become their own person. You can't, and shouldn't, protect them forever.

there is a difference between letting a child learn to pick himself up and fight back and and letting him get pummeled to death...

if my child was getting picked on, i would not run and intervene right away, but if the bully started beating him with a baseball bat, you better believe i'd go and stop it...


what i was getting at is this:

the ancients did nothing when we were fighting the goa'uld, which was perfectly fine because it was our war... we made them aware of our presence, we drew first blood by attacking and killing Ra... thus it was our mess to clean up...

now, we may be slightly responsible for the Ori coming to the milky way after vala strapped that device onto her and daniel... however... where we had the ability to fight the goa'uld, esp after converting teal'c and meeting the asgard... we do not possess the full ability to defeat the ori... the ancients do... it is the responsibility, neigh duty, of those with power to assist those without... especially when the enemy threatens both... the goa'uld were no threat to the ancients, thus i can understand and agree with them not getting involved...

however... the ori will, if not stopped, eventually conquer enough star systems to turn and bring the fight to the ancients and defeat them... so that's one reason the ancients should fight... because they could defeat the ori here and now...

another reason is that the ori are committing something worse than galactic genocide... they are relentlessly enslaving billions upon billions of people... and who is fighitng them? about 250 people from earth... and we don't have any technology with which to go head to head with them... yes, we have the asgard tech, but we don't fully understand it yet and their anti-ori beam is only on 1 ship... 1 ship is not enough to take on 4 ori ships, let alone an entire pan-galactic fleet...

now, we may have the sangraal thanks to merlin... but we still don't know if its going to be enough...



the ancients have the ability to defeat the ori once and for all... and they have a responsibility and duty to their "children", the 2nd evolution of life in the milky way, to use that power...



imagine this


a religious extremist rises to power in a country in Africa and quickly builds an army of followers... over the next 2 years he and his army set off around Africa conquering every country they set foot in and enslave the citizens of those countries... ruling them with fear and abuse... treating them like worthless cattle... sometime slaughtering hundreds just to prove he has the power to do so... what would you say if Europe, Asia, and America sat idly by and did nothing to stop him?

oh wait, i'm sorry, something like that did happen in europe... its name was Nazi Germany... Hitler was not our (america's) fight... he was not a threat to us... he never attacked us... and yet we had a duty to our fellow man... and to those men and women incapable of defending themselves, to go to war with him and defeat him...

[Prometheus 1]

I think it would be cool instead of a planet based show, this one be on Midway. While people travel back and forth between Atlantis and the SGC, they could have teams dialing the ninth chevron sending them where ever that goes (my logical guess is a different galactic local group...time travel and different realities give me a doctor who or sliders feel- not right for stargate as a regular traveling thing). What do you all think about SGU on Midway?

[2ndgenerationalteran]

i think the writers gave up on the 9th chevron, if you look at the pegasus and milky way gates at the midway station there are only 8 chevrons. There wouldnt be that much either, long trip to both galaxies we have a base in, which Midway is not the main base. If they learn its easier to dial other galaxies and return to midway with normal energy requirements then maybe.

[Ripple in Space]

The station's the size of a room... It can only gate to Atlantis or the SGC, and since TPTB said that Stargate: Universe won't be involved with the SGC or Atlantis....

[Ripple in Space]

i think the writers gave up on the 9th chevron

Actually the 9th chevron is going to be a major plot-point in SG-Universe. The gates are CGI errors.

[Major_Griff]

I like the idea... its just like some one esle said I don't think Midway is going to be much more than the size of a Puddle Jumper, and I don't think that they could work in the Ninth Chevron with in that context. Maybe Stargate: Midway could be a stand alone dvd movie or miniseries. It could work as a cross over, just one crew, or completely independent from SG-1/SGA.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

im hoping the Midway station will be like the Gould space station in a way, huge and a base.

[Maltrancko]

i thought you only joined in retaliation to the japanese attack on Pearl Harbour?

[zoislk]

there is a difference between letting a child learn to pick himself up and fight back and and letting him get pummeled to death...

if my child was getting picked on, i would not run and intervene right away, but if the bully started beating him with a baseball bat, you better believe i'd go and stop it...

But no one is picking up a baseball bat and swinging for the other's head. But I agree with you in that if there was a life or death situation, or if someone was going to be hospitalized, you use violence if possible to STOP the parties from seriously injuring/killing eachother.

now, we may be slightly responsible for the Ori coming to the milky way after vala strapped that device onto her and daniel... however... where we had the ability to fight the goa'uld, esp after converting teal'c and meeting the asgard... we do not possess the full ability to defeat the ori... the ancients do... it is the responsibility, neigh duty, of those with power to assist those without... especially when the enemy threatens both... the goa'uld were no threat to the ancients, thus i can understand and agree with them not getting involved...

however... the ori will, if not stopped, eventually conquer enough star systems to turn and bring the fight to the ancients and defeat them... so that's one reason the ancients should fight... because they could defeat the ori here and now...

we didn't at the time have the full ability to defeat the goa'uld at the start, either. There were far too many, we were far outnumbered and outpowered. How is this any different?

They have numbers, they have technology, and they have territory advantages over us. It isn't any more serious than the Goa'uld, except that we are more powerful now so the enemy, keeping the same type of proportion, is more powerful. So why is it that you don't demand the Ancients to help against the goa'uld, but in the same situation you demand it against the Ori? Is it because the Tau'ri eventually defeated the Goa'uld, so you realized it wasn't so hopeless after all?

Hand to hand, the enemy soldiers can be killed. Their ships are just tough as heck to destroy. Just like how it was with the goa'uld.

As for the Ori's ability to strike at the Ancients, that's THEIR problem ... if they want to be stupid enough to allow the Ori to gain the strength to destroy them, that's their fault. It says nothing against their moral character to refuse to fight.

another reason is that the ori are committing something worse than galactic genocide... they are relentlessly enslaving billions upon billions of people... and who is fighitng them? about 250 people from earth... and we don't have any technology with which to go head to head with them... yes, we have the asgard tech, but we don't fully understand it yet and their anti-ori beam is only on 1 ship... 1 ship is not enough to take on 4 ori ships, let alone an entire pan-galactic fleet...

now, we may have the sangraal thanks to merlin... but we still don't know if its going to be enough...

It isn't worse than galactic genocide. People are still living. They can survive. To believe they can't, is to believe that the Ori are all-powerful? In which case you might as well worship them anyways.

Life > Death.

Yeah, life under unjust rule and horrible conditions is in no way good, but the choice between living under a harsh and unforgiving government vs. death, the choice would be clear ... this isn't worse than galactic genocide.

No, it's not good that the Tau'ri are the only ones sticking up to the religious oppression being forced upon the rest of the galaxy. No one was saying it was a good thing. But the questions of if it's a supremely immoral thing to allow to happen, and if the Ori are massacring defenseless people ... isn't that what we are supposed to be discussing?

the ancients have the ability to defeat the ori once and for all... and they have a responsibility and duty to their "children", the 2nd evolution of life in the milky way, to use that power...

Now you're getting confused I think? Before it sounded like you were talking about the followers of Origin, you know... those that are actually fighting the war against the Tau'ri and doing everything. In which case, they to the Ori are just like the Tau'ri are to the Ancients.

But if you're talking about the ascended Ori, they don't have the power to defeat them. It would be just like when Anubis was ascended, and Oma "fought" him. Neither side could win, but they would only be able to fight back to no end.

imagine this


a religious extremist rises to power in a country in Africa and quickly builds an army of followers... over the next 2 years he and his army set off around Africa conquering every country they set foot in and enslave the citizens of those countries... ruling them with fear and abuse... treating them like worthless cattle... sometime slaughtering hundreds just to prove he has the power to do so... what would you say if Europe, Asia, and America sat idly by and did nothing to stop him?

oh wait, i'm sorry, something like that did happen in europe... its name was Nazi Germany... Hitler was not our (america's) fight... he was not a threat to us... he never attacked us... and yet we had a duty to our fellow man... and to those men and women incapable of defending themselves, to go to war with him and defeat him...

No, this is not like Hitler and Nazi Germany. Hitler massacred people because of their race. The Ori are forcing their religion on others, and "persuading" those that show too much resistance. In essence, it is the story of the Crusades, NOT the story of the holocaust. And again, I'm in no way saying it's good or alright to do. But it isn't the same as massacring innocent people without reason. It's religious warfare, forced upon others. Life is life, it is not death. It is not killing because of what genes they carry, not killing because of who they are. It's in no way good, but it's not the end.

i thought you only joined in retaliation to the japanese attack on Pearl Harbour?

Exactly. We were very isolationist, and only were going to FIGHT if the fight came to us, when we had no choice. If no one struck at us, or if we didn't feel like we were going to be attacked, we surely would have continued down the same path -- sending supplies to the Allies, but not sending in our own men to die.

America isn't so perfect. We aren't the great defenders of freedom. We defend ourselves, and when it's convenient enough and enough people within the nation agree, we might do something nice here or there. But otherwise, we're just looking out for ourselves. It's foolish to think the nation looks any other way.. it's clear as day.


If we were the great defenders of freedom that some seem to think we are, then why aren't we in Sudan in full force? Why didn't we stop the genocide in Rwanda? Why haven't we "freed" the entire world and brought them all under democratic rule, to "rule themselves" ? America is just another country, looking out for it's own. Why did we go into Iraq and start that war? Not because of the atrocities of Saddam -- that's just our excuse. We went in there to try and get another ally in the middle east, who would hopefully stand up and support us in our interest there (not oil specifically, but much moreso because of Israel, and the possible problems Iran could give many in the world. And, maybe, because some thought that Iraq was going to be an eventual spot for Terrorists to thrive, so better to take care of that before it happens)

[IrishPisano]

actually... it is considered by most that living as a slave, subjugated into worship against their will under threat of death or torture is a far worse path in life than death...

2. the goa'uld were our fight, not the ancients...
3. the ori, as has been stated within the show, will eventually - presumably after conquering all or a majority of the milky way - take their fight to the ancients... it is partly for this reason that the ancients should get involved...
4. we (earth and our allies) are on the brink of extinction from the ori... because we refuse to kneel before them... this it is a life and death situation for us... the ancients, as the progenitors of our race, i think owe it to us to come in and help us fight the enemy that they are in part responsible for creating...